23:48:32 RRSAgent has joined #epub 23:48:32 logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/02/17-epub-irc 23:48:34 RRSAgent, make logs Public 23:48:35 please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), dauwhe_ 23:48:43 Meeting: EPUB 3 Working Group Telecon 23:49:37 dauwhe_ has changed the topic to: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-epub-wg/2022Feb/0012.html 23:51:23 dauwhe_ has joined #epub 23:57:29 present+ 23:58:32 toshiakikoike has joined #epub 23:58:47 wendyreid has joined #epub 23:59:13 present+ 23:59:23 MasakazuKitahara has joined #epub 23:59:29 MattChan has joined #epub 23:59:33 present+ 23:59:59 shiestyle has joined #epub 00:00:05 preent+ 00:00:29 present+ 00:00:36 present+ 00:00:48 duga has joined #epub 00:01:14 present+ 00:01:31 present+ 00:02:43 scribe+ 00:04:05 TOPIC: TPAC 2022 Attendance 00:04:29 wendyreid: W3C exploring idea of holding TPAC in person this year in Vancouver, BC, Canada 00:04:45 ... they've asked all chairs to gauge interest with their wgs 00:05:02 ... probably impossible to know at this point if people will go, it would be in September 00:05:11 ... some employers are not allowing corporate travel right now 00:05:22 ... not sure what situation will be like by September 00:05:43 dauwhe: I hear rumors that they are dropping testing requirements for vaccinated people soon 00:05:58 ... if at all possible I would go to in person TPAC 00:06:07 ... given safety, etc. 00:06:34 wendyreid: so if everything makes this possible, what is the interest in holding in person TPAC meeting? 00:06:41 ... it would be a hybrid meeting, by the way 00:06:48 ... i.e. same as during the before times 00:07:01 ... with simultaneous in person and online participants 00:07:26 duga: assuming all the above, my interest is high 00:08:13 shiestyle: not sure about the situation at my company, but I will discuss with our JP members in Japanese 00:08:35 ... [in Japanese] 00:09:24 ... toshiakikoike says that it would be difficult for him due to health and the covid policy at his company 00:09:47 ... MasakazuKitahara says it would also be difficult for him, given the current situation 00:10:28 MURATA: i'm thinking of going to Italy this year for DAISY conference, I am not prohibited from going. But what will be the topic of the meeting there? 00:10:34 wendyreid: still TBD 00:11:09 duga: TPAC is happening either way, we're just deciding whether there will be an in person component 00:11:22 MURATA: in my experience hybrid conferences don't work as well, do you agree? 00:11:41 wendyreid: it's definitely harder, but we've done it for 2 years before covid 00:11:53 ... we may change the time, i.e. have shorter sessions 00:12:11 ... maybe 2 mornings, or 2 afternoons, depending on what works for everyone 00:12:22 ... and a Pacific time zone makes it hard to coordinate meeting times with EU 00:12:32 ... but we will do our best for everything, and timezones are being considered 00:12:49 ... they may just be deciding whether they want to keep their reservation at the conference facility 00:13:04 dauwhe: do you have what you need to report back? 00:13:07 https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs/issues/1483 00:13:09 wendyreid: yes, I think so! 00:13:20 TOPIC: Page Progression Direction 00:13:44 dauwhe: I was a little puzzled by language in the spec around this 00:14:23 ... there may be a clash of terminology, i.e. page-progression-direction attribute from the package doc, CSS's own documentation about page progression, etc. 00:14:26 q+ 00:14:31 ack duga 00:14:50 duga: I think there was some proposed text at the end of the discussion 00:15:16 wendyreid: "if page progression direction has value other than default, RS must ignore page progression computed from the content" 00:15:42 dauwhe: if you don't put page progression direction in package, but you obviously have rtl content then it seems strange to say that the RS can't figure that out 00:15:49 ... so I would support the proposed text 00:15:53 MURATA: sounds reasonable to me 00:16:08 q? 00:16:30 Proposed: Adopt Brady's suggested text in issue 1483, close issue 1483 00:16:36 +1 00:16:37 +1 00:16:37 +1 00:16:37 +1 00:16:39 +1 00:16:39 +1 00:16:44 +1 00:16:52 RESOLVED: Adopt Brady's suggested text in issue 1483, close issue 1483 00:17:05 https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs/issues/1733 00:17:11 TOPIC: FXL Limitations 00:17:24 wendyreid: not a lot of discussion on these, but they are still open, so we want to mention 00:17:37 ... gpellegrino did review of a11y documentation last year 00:17:48 ... he raised 2 issues specifically about FXL a11y 00:18:11 ... one is about there being limitations on FXL a11y right now, not able to make fully accessible FXL document right now 00:18:16 https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs/issues/1736 00:18:38 ... other one is about accessibility and orientation, there will be a note in best practices that blocking orientation can impede readability 00:18:49 q+ 00:18:52 ack dauwhe 00:19:02 ... if no comments, both gpellgrino's comments will be reflected in note 00:19:29 dauwhe: my understanding is that the problem which cannot be avoided in making FXL accessible content is that font size is fixed 00:19:36 ... is there accessibility metadata around there? 00:19:55 wendyreid: i think so, but I can't recall specific accessibility hazard text at the moment 00:20:10 ... but yes, inability to modify text size, font face 00:20:47 ... we will be mapping some of the statements in the best practice note to WCAG - one of these is about scrolling, i.e. having to scroll both horizontally and vertically to read content if zoomed in 00:21:02 dauwhe: i could definitely make an FXL that doesn't specify fonts, but not sure if RS would allow user to choose a font 00:21:13 duga: no, the whole point of FXL is that you're not supposed to change that 00:21:33 dauwhe: does the CSS positioning spec say that you can use these things to make inaccessible documents? 00:22:30 wendyreid: there is an accessibility feature call display transformability, but not corresponding accessibility hazard for no display transformability 00:22:47 ... but I will ask authors of a11y spec 00:23:27 dauwhe: historically epub has allowed a lot of different ways to achieve a particular goal, and we've never taken the position that every epub must be accessible to every user 00:23:43 q+ 00:23:44 ... for example, standard alone audio books are very useful for accessibility, but also useless to a specific segment of people 00:24:05 ... this seems like we're taking a step towards saying FXL is an invalid way of presenting content to users 00:24:26 wendyreid: this is all non-normative, but i'm phrasing the note as "the limits of FXL a11y" 00:24:42 ack shiestyle 00:24:51 ... it is possible to do a lot of a11y work for a lot of people, but there are limitations that make it so that some segments will not be served 00:25:13 ack shi 00:25:21 shiestyle: right now we do not have requirement to make epub accessible, so it will be hard to realize accessible epubs i think 00:25:34 wendyreid: isn't a version of epub a11y 1.1 adopted as JIS standard? 00:25:45 MAKOTO: it will be later this year, in aug/sep 00:25:53 s/MAKOTO/MURATA 00:26:01 dauwhe: okay, what wendyreid has proposed sounds good to me 00:26:08 https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs/issues/1961 00:26:12 TOPIC: Wording of Affordance 00:26:14 https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs/issues/1961 00:26:39 wendyreid: i think the only question is, MURATA, is it okay to go with the last suggested text from mgarrish on the issue? 00:27:08 MURATA: different people have different understanding of the word affordance, so let's use something else 00:27:19 wendyreid: I think mgarrish suggested some form of "alternatives" 00:27:32 MURATA: George suggested "available features" 00:27:57 wendyreid: mgarrish suggested that in the specific text we're talking about "alternatives" might work 00:28:02 An EPUB Publication can have more than one set of sufficient access modes depending on the alternatives provided to enable reading in another mode. 00:28:09 dauwhe: I like that wording 00:28:23 MURATA: there are two instances of the word "affordance". Will we fix both? 00:28:55 wendyreid: the other is in the explanation for accessModeSufficient 00:29:04 "this property takes into account any affordances for content that is not broadly accessible" 00:29:21 wendyreid: so yes, I think using "alternatives" here makes sense too 00:29:36 MURATA: thank you! 00:29:53 wendyreid: I think that was it 00:30:09 ... we're working our way through the issue list 00:30:18 ... we have some testing issues, security and privacy, MO 00:30:38 ... for security and privacy I've reached out to our 2 reviewers for feedback 00:30:47 dauwhe: looks like we could be in CR soon 00:32:18 ... okay, thank you everyone 00:32:41 zakim, end meeting 00:32:41 As of this point the attendees have been dauwhe, toshiakikoike, MasakazuKitahara, wendyreid, MattChan, duga, shiestyle 00:32:43 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 00:32:43 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/02/17-epub-minutes.html Zakim 00:32:46 I am happy to have been of service, dauwhe; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye 00:32:51 Zakim has left #epub 00:32:51 RRSAgent: bye 00:32:51 I see no action items