15:03:43 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #coga
15:03:43 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/02/17-coga-irc
15:03:44 <lisas_> zakim, choose a victim
15:03:45 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:03:45 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #coga
15:03:46 <julierawe> present+
15:03:47 <trackbot> Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
15:03:47 <trackbot> Date: 17 February 2022
15:03:57 <Rain> present+ Rain, Rashmi, Le
15:04:08 <Rain> present+ lisas_
15:04:17 <Rain> present+ David-Swallow, Jennie
15:04:31 <Rain> present+ JohnRochford, julierawe, Roy
15:04:40 <lisas_> zakim, choose a victim
15:04:40 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose lisas_
15:04:44 <Rain> present+ Fazio
15:04:49 <lisas_> zakim, choose a victim
15:04:49 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Rashmi
15:04:50 <Rain> present+ JustineP
15:05:27 <Rain> present+ ShawnT
15:05:31 <lisas_> scribe: JustineP
15:05:58 <Rain> present+ kirkwood
15:06:08 <lisas_> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/Scribe_list
15:06:20 <lisas_> topic: coga call actions
15:06:33 <lisas_> actions: https://docs.google.com/document/d/15HtPkkYx1CIl6bAwP2nsSZKhqTVbqcuMDRz5RmtmvXg/edit#heading=h.ka7r1m4q5vkc
15:07:00 <Rain> regrets+ E.A., Julie, Albert, Kris Anne
15:07:13 <JustineP> Lisa: Let's review action items.
15:07:25 <Rachael> present+
15:07:36 <JustineP> ...EO, working on how people with disabilities use the web. Handling as a subgroup meeting.
15:08:09 <JustineP> Rain: For mobile TF, we sent working document and will have a conversation.
15:09:03 <JustineP> Lisa: EO wrote back in response to our feeedback.
15:09:04 <lisas_> q?
15:09:18 <johnkirkwood> johnkirkwood has joined #COGA
15:09:32 <JustineP> Rain: Some feedback may not belong in Github. Should we have a meeting to discuss?
15:09:59 <JustineP> Lisa: Let's have a conversation with them.
15:10:20 <JustineP> Michael: We should interact in the most efficient way. Let's take to planning.
15:10:26 <lisas_> Q?
15:11:33 <JustineP> Jennie, image subgroup - We scheduled the meeting and will discuss with designer.
15:12:13 <JustineP> Julie: Haven't made a lot of progress. Looking for ways to have TF and community group submit info for clear language.
15:12:33 <JustineP> ...Is it essential to support submitting screen scrabs vs. putting in text?
15:12:34 <Rain> q+
15:12:34 <lisas_> q?
15:12:42 <lisas_> q+
15:12:47 <lisas_> ack r
15:12:49 <JohnRochford> q+
15:13:07 <Jennie> +1
15:13:11 <lisas_> +1
15:13:14 <Jennie> q+
15:13:18 <JustineP> Rain: Would be good to offer screen grabs as an option since in some cases examples may not be evident via text alone.
15:13:30 <kirkwood> agree with screen grab but maybe we could describe as well
15:13:48 <JustineP> ...We want to make it as easy as possible. Let's not require screen grabs.
15:14:33 <JustineP> John K: In certain cases, screen grabs might be necessary due to complexity of descriptions.
15:14:39 <lisas_> ack L
15:15:38 <JustineP> Lisa: We made a form for mental health lit review and received mixed feedback. Consider Google doc for free-flowing thoughts or sending info via email.
15:15:51 <kirkwood> +1 to Lisa’s alternative as well
15:15:52 <Rain> +1 to alternative, enable people to provide the information the easiest way for them (form or Google doc, individual has the choice)
15:16:04 <JustineP> Julie: We should have more than 1 way for people to submit.
15:16:16 <Rain> q+
15:16:21 <JustineP> ...Is community group using a separate but similar form? Any benefit to having two forms?
15:16:42 <julierawe> q+
15:16:45 <lisas_> ack jo
15:17:26 <JustineP> John R: I prefer web addresses.
15:18:01 <kirkwood> +1 to URL and screenshot
15:18:01 <lisas_> ack next
15:18:02 <Rashmi> q+
15:18:06 <JustineP> Jennie: We should consider people who have difficulty describing in words. In those cases, URL and screen shot might be the best option.
15:18:08 <JohnRochford> q-
15:18:15 <JustineP> ...We should support multiple communication styles.
15:18:15 <lisas_> ack next
15:18:36 <julierawe> q-
15:18:40 <JustineP> Rain: Addressing Julie's question. Community group has a form that they are still working on.
15:19:02 <JustineP> ...When complete, that form might serve our need.
15:19:23 <JustineP> ...Form is still receiving feedback and will not be ready before March 3.
15:19:44 <JustineP> ...Form is intended to collect good and bad examples of all experiences. Will not be specific to clear language.
15:20:23 <JustineP> ...Rashmi mentioned that the form is geared toward collecting bad examples, so community group is looking at supporting both good and bad examples.
15:20:32 <lisas_> ack next
15:20:33 <kirkwood> q+
15:21:14 <JustineP> Rashmi: Screen grabs might be helpful for referring to later. We can provide text for images.
15:21:21 <lisas_> ack next
15:21:45 <Rain> q+
15:21:55 <JustineP> John K: I'm weary of publishing live/bad examples. Is that an issue for the W3C?
15:22:25 <julierawe> q+
15:22:34 <JustineP> Lisa: Good point. Our screen shots shouldn't be made public.
15:22:44 <lisas_> ack next
15:22:45 <Jennie> +1 and that will support designers using those to help with designs
15:22:45 <julierawe> q-
15:22:55 <JustineP> Rain: We've locked down spaces so only our TF has access.
15:23:38 <lisas_> topic: AG update
15:23:40 <JustineP> Lisa: Rachael, can you update us on AG?
15:23:48 <kirkwood> q-
15:24:06 <JustineP> Rachael: We are primarily looking at WCAG 2.2 and visible controls. Third party use cases will be addressed.
15:24:26 <JustineP> ...The following week, we'll focus on the charter and WCAG 3.0. COGA should prioritize attending on March 3.
15:24:33 <lisas_> topic: work statement  https://docs.google.com/document/d/1m7-BSm9IFWN9tszIf24oVnFRpq-4n27CKCiXXxMqaYs/edit#heading=h.mzlp67fqhcve
15:24:59 <JustineP> Lisa: We provisionally approved work statement and anticipate comments from group chairs.
15:26:21 <JustineP> ...<Lisa screen shares> Looking at objective for subset of mental health conditions.
15:26:47 <JustineP> ...There were concerns that it was too vague. People won't know who is included.
15:27:16 <JustineP> ...We wrote a subset of mental health conditions that have clear research and can be integrated into Content Usable.
15:27:38 <JustineP> ...We might be able to add more user needs, personas, or design guides.
15:28:29 <lisas_> q?
15:28:34 <JustineP> ...Any questions/concerns?
15:29:36 <JustineP> ...Adding the word "intent" gives us leeway in terms of level of publishing.
15:30:44 <JustineP> ...Adjusting "publish as a note" and removed "published as a W3C statement".
15:31:36 <JustineP> ...We intend to advance to a W3C statement.
15:31:46 <lisas_> q?
15:32:33 <JustineP> ...Used "create and propose a working draft" rather than "publish a working draft".
15:32:44 <Rachael> q+
15:32:49 <JustineP> ...Makes it so we don't have to publish as an independent working draft.
15:32:54 <lisas_> ack next
15:33:06 <JustineP> Rachael: To put something in a charter, we need a draft.
15:33:12 <JustineP> ...Timing works out very well.
15:33:49 <JustineP> Lisa: We haven't told parent working groups of our intention.
15:34:03 <JustineP> ...If we get a draft in a year, that's when AG begins the rechartering process.
15:34:36 <JustineP> ...We can also publish through APA. We can publish as part of APA, AG, or both.
15:34:50 <lisas_> q?
15:35:02 <JustineP> Michael: I don't think rules prohibit publishing through both. If published through only one group, TF would not receive credit.
15:35:42 <kirkwood> q+
15:36:22 <JustineP> John K: Would we have to publish through both groups for COGA to receive credit? Seems fine if we are prepared for that.
15:36:33 <JustineP> Michael: That's an unofficial interpretation on my part.
15:37:13 <JustineP> Lisa: Its good to get feedback from chairs to ensure they are on-board with our plans.
15:37:38 <lisas_> are we happy with the reviced work statment
15:37:43 <lisas_> +1
15:37:49 <Rain> +1
15:37:51 <ShawnT> +1
15:37:57 <julierawe> +1
15:38:00 <Jennie> +1 and thank you to all that worked on it!
15:38:03 <Rashmi> +1
15:38:05 <kirkwood> +1
15:38:12 <Rachael> +1
15:38:15 <Le> +1
15:38:21 <JustineP> ...Should we send to the list?
15:38:38 <Fazio> Fazio has joined #coga
15:38:39 <Rachael> Send it to the list, this is the final version
15:38:42 <kirkwood> pls send to the list
15:38:47 <Rachael> q+
15:38:57 <lisas_> ack next
15:39:12 <JustineP> Rachael: Its the final version from chair's view. We should run by groups.
15:39:33 <JustineP> Michael: A CfC is not required based on my interpretation.
15:40:05 <lisas_> topic: timelines https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JXa94s2lbzJ0v9FHasxxws3CsOcljHHBdlQ2VOxYqAQ/edit#heading=h.ykqwx9vsxdya
15:41:02 <JustineP> Lisa: We aren't including coordinated work with other groups since that is based on their timelines.
15:41:10 <JustineP> ...These are things COGA will work on by ourselves.
15:41:49 <JustineP> ...Column 1 includes things for Content Usable. Column 2 is research aspects.
15:42:15 <JustineP> ...Divided into rows for 6 months-1 year stages.
15:42:48 <JustineP> ...Next year, we will finish mental health and images, as well as community feedback.
15:43:02 <JustineP> ...Also include considerations for structural changes.
15:43:38 <JustineP> ...We have a draft of the paper for research module.
15:44:11 <JustineP> ...Did an initial literary review and it is now out-of-date.
15:44:56 <JustineP> ...Issue papers include bots, wayfinding. Most is almost ready to publish.
15:45:43 <JustineP> ...There are other issues we need to handle before publishing an update.
15:46:22 <JustineP> ...We suggest limiting subgroups to 6 items.
15:47:07 <JustineP> ...For Content Usable, we will edit, develop new patterns/personas, and address internationalization.
15:47:47 <JustineP> ...We'd begin a lit review of research modules since we will have finished mental health.
15:48:18 <JustineP> ...Then work on any missing content and releasing a working draft.
15:48:30 <lisas_> Q?
15:48:38 <lisas_> ack next
15:48:46 <JustineP> Lisa: Any questions?
15:48:50 <Jennie> q+
15:49:16 <JustineP> Jennie: You did a great review. It is a lot of work that needs to be completed/tracked/managed/editied.
15:49:24 <JustineP> s/editied/edited
15:49:47 <JustineP> ...only request is that when we move to different components, can we divide into sections that can be assigned to folks?
15:50:55 <JustineP> Lisa: We want information from issue papers to go into Content Usable.
15:51:28 <JustineP> Jennie: Reminds me of editing Content Usable. I didn't fully understand how much time it would take to do a full edit.
15:51:43 <JustineP> ...When we get to those pieces, can we assign out smaller components of work?
15:51:45 <JustineP> Lisa: Yes.
15:52:10 <JustineP> ...Any questions about what we'll be doing? Do we agree with the scope?
15:52:36 <JustineP> ...The only way we can do this is to set a time limit and move on to next topic.
15:53:13 <JustineP> ...Its a compromise between time on task and how long a task really needs to take.
15:53:18 <Jennie> ack Jennie
15:53:58 <JustineP> ...This is hard but doable. We'll move on to next stage even if previous step isn't fully complete.
15:54:36 <lisas_> +1: happy, 0 more time, -1 unhappy
15:55:01 <julierawe> +1
15:55:11 <ShawnT> +1
15:55:23 <Rain> +1
15:55:24 <Rashmi> +1
15:55:45 <Le> +1
15:56:01 <JustineP> ...If you need more time, please put in 0.
15:56:42 <JustineP> John K: I'd like to see a summary in IRC of what we are voting on.
15:57:06 <JustineP> ...I want to ensure we're able to manage the workload and follow through.
15:57:21 <kirkwood> 0
15:57:59 <JustineP> Lisa: Anyone else feel the same?
15:58:17 <Jennie> Agree with John K - maybe a little more detail will help me vote.
15:59:18 <JustineP> ...Jennie and John K. have a point. We might need to work on this some more.
16:00:36 <JustineP> Jennie: Having measurable goals will be helpful. For example, a lit review of 5 papers.
16:01:00 <JustineP> John K: That works for me.
16:01:25 <kirkwood> present+
16:01:31 <lisas_> rrsagent, publish minutes
16:01:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/02/17-coga-minutes.html lisas_
16:01:35 <julierawe> Have a good weekend, everybody!
16:01:44 <Jennie> Have a good week everyone!
16:02:11 <lisas_> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/Scribe_list
16:02:30 <David-Swallow> I am interested in the Mental Health work, but I can't make the follow-up meeting.
16:08:34 <lisas_> topic: mental health subgroup
16:08:37 <lisas_> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/Subgroups/Mental_Health
16:08:37 <Jan_> Jan_ has joined #coga
16:08:52 <lisas_> actions: https://docs.google.com/document/d/15HtPkkYx1CIl6bAwP2nsSZKhqTVbqcuMDRz5RmtmvXg/edit#
16:09:34 <lisas_> form: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeGrqJKV7RluoYrKHJN8cBJH3w9sDx7lAlAhcV0BeBTUVybkw/viewform
16:09:58 <lisas_> google doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XWmikm5Ein5CQ02knEJ5iGzO1YJMilTMBJ_aLVCTzs0/edit#heading=h.bc4vqyklmnk0
16:11:09 <lisas_> q?
16:11:58 <kirkwood> sorry had to drop having a building issue right now
16:17:58 <Le> brb
16:22:33 <Le> back
16:26:17 <lisas_> google doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XWmikm5Ein5CQ02knEJ5iGzO1YJMilTMBJ_aLVCTzs0/edit#heading=h.cbnvyftc12j3
16:34:28 <Rashmi> https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs11920-016-0746-6
16:54:43 <lisas_> ++ rashmi https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0272431613501083?journalCode=jeaa&
16:54:50 <lisas_> Issue papers suggestions :
16:54:50 <lisas_>  Safety/ privacy and apps
16:54:50 <lisas_> Algorithms
16:54:50 <lisas_> missing out people with coga or mental health conditions or
16:54:51 <lisas_> hurting people with coga or mental health conditions , such as maneuvering the political feelings and fears and insecurities tailored to the weak points of the user
16:54:52 <lisas_> Provision for global settings to avoid trumer (as individual trigger warnings makes it more art of their identity )
16:54:55 <lisas_> Maybe if the user has the information, they can make better disions on what to use
18:30:23 <lisas> lisas has joined #coga
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