17:41:33 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria
17:41:33 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/02/17-aria-irc
17:41:34 <Zakim> inviting RRSAgent
17:41:35 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
17:41:36 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), jamesn
17:41:43 <jamesn> meeting: ARIA WG
17:41:49 <jamesn> chair: JamesNurthen
17:41:58 <jamesn> agendabot, fetch agenda
17:41:58 <agendabot> jamesn, sorry, I don't understand "fetch agenda". Try "agendabot, help".
17:42:04 <jamesn> agendabot, find agenda
17:42:04 <agendabot> jamesn, OK. This may take a minute...
17:42:04 <agendabot> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/1d223877-730c-446f-bfa9-2e9222902112/20220217T130000
17:42:04 <agendabot> clear agenda
17:42:04 <agendabot> agenda+  -> New Issue Triage https://bit.ly/34OMc6O
17:42:05 <agendabot> agenda+  -> New PR Triage https://bit.ly/3JtHH0j
17:42:07 <agendabot> agenda+  -> Deep Dive planning https://bit.ly/aria-meaty-topic-candidates
17:42:10 <agendabot> agenda+ Reminder - rejoin Group due to new charter
17:42:12 <agendabot> agenda+  -> 1.3 Blocking issues https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+milestone%3A%22ARIA+1.3%22+no%3Aproject+sort%3Acreated-asc+label%3A1.3-Blocking
17:42:16 <agendabot> agenda+  -> Initial aria-textseparation (depends on generic PR being merged) https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/996
17:42:19 <agendabot> agenda+  -> Consider collapsing Base Concept category into Related Concepts https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1679
17:42:22 <agendabot> agenda+  -> Inconsistency between native and ARIA listboxes when implicit aria-selected is provided https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1661
17:42:25 <agendabot> agenda+  -> Should ARIA provide better support for routing in single-page applications? https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1353
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17:59:40 <jamesn> regrets+ StefanSchnabel
18:00:25 <joanie> present+ Joanmarie_Diggs
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18:00:35 <jamesn> present+
18:00:46 <aaronlev> present+
18:01:13 <MarkMcCarthy> MarkMcCarthy has joined #aria
18:01:18 <chlane> chlane present+
18:01:32 <MarkMcCarthy> present+
18:02:08 <chlane> scribe:chlane
18:02:52 <spectranaut> present+ valerie_young
18:03:24 <MarkMcCarthy> present+ BryanGaraventa
18:03:34 <chlane> zakim, next item
18:03:34 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- -> New Issue Triage https://bit.ly/34OMc6O -- taken up [from agendabot]
18:03:56 <chlane> MarkMcCarthy: thanks
18:04:13 <chlane> i know its a regex I just type slow
18:04:41 <siri_> siri_ has joined #aria
18:05:19 <MarkMcCarthy> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1696
18:05:50 <chlane> jamesn: agrees that a text child should label a descendant
18:06:36 <chlane> jamesn: scotts recommends native behavior
18:06:44 <chlane> they are coming up with a new select menu
18:06:55 <chlane> authors need to add group labels
18:07:11 <chlane> jamesn: should we not wait on outcome of those discussions
18:07:57 <chlane> scott, open UI, do whatever, may ship without A11y
18:08:11 <chlane> need more involvement or issues from scott
18:08:32 <chlane> jamesn: need to talk with them, we should get a formal mechanism
18:08:44 <chlane> jamesn: should not happen hap hazardly
18:08:59 <chlane> jamesn: assinging to himself and 1.4
18:09:12 <chlane> label as openUI
18:09:40 <chlane> siri_: not understanding? why use role = group in listbox?
18:09:55 <chlane> jamesn: not allowed on this usage, would need spec change
18:10:12 <chlane> siri_: scott this is a reduced test case
18:10:20 <chlane> jamesn: like the <optgroup>
18:10:36 <chlane> scott we need to solve for groups of options
18:10:52 <chlane> siri_: cannot use headings
18:11:15 <MarkMcCarthy> present+ RobertoPerez
18:11:37 <chlane> roberto any any behavior examples?
18:11:54 <chlane> jamesn: visible label needs aria-hidden
18:11:56 <chlane> true
18:12:06 <chlane> zakim, next item
18:12:06 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- -> New PR Triage https://bit.ly/3JtHH0j -- taken up [from agendabot]
18:12:14 <MarkMcCarthy> s/roberto any any/roberto: any
18:12:25 <scotto> scotto has joined #aria
18:12:28 <scotto> present+
18:12:32 <chlane> all editorial not worry about them
18:12:50 <chlane> zakim, close this item
18:12:50 <Zakim> agendum 2 closed
18:12:51 <Zakim> I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
18:12:51 <Zakim> 3. -> Deep Dive planning https://bit.ly/aria-meaty-topic-candidates [from agendabot]
18:12:54 <chlane> zakim, next item
18:12:54 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- -> Deep Dive planning https://bit.ly/aria-meaty-topic-candidates -- taken up [from agendabot]
18:13:27 <chlane> potential testing meeting
18:13:49 <chlane> Bryan accname?
18:14:09 <chlane> dissent between implementers?
18:14:23 <chlane> bryan, further discussion was necessary
18:14:59 <cyns_> cyns_ has joined #aria
18:15:01 <chlane> aaronlev: webkit didn't have aria description
18:15:20 <chlane> aaronlev: macos 11 ax custom content
18:15:26 <aaronlev> https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=206253
18:15:31 <chlane> before that it will be ax custom hint
18:15:45 <chlane> jamesn: james c requested changes, none blocking
18:16:41 <chlane> bryan will go through it with melanie
18:16:54 <chlane> jamesn: review comments unresolved
18:17:58 <chlane> jamesn: 8 comments from james c with no responses, some editorial
18:18:32 <chlane> no meeting next week
18:18:44 <chlane> zakim, next item
18:18:44 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Reminder - rejoin Group due to new charter -- taken up [from agendabot]
18:19:55 <chlane> zakim, next item
18:19:55 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- -> 1.3 Blocking issues https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+milestone%3A%22ARIA+1.3%22+no%3Aproject+sort%3Acreated-asc+label%3A1.3-Blocking --
18:19:58 <Zakim> ... taken up [from agendabot]
18:22:15 <chlane> 1159 no updates
18:22:26 <MarkMcCarthy> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1177
18:23:02 <chlane> #1177 no update from Matt
18:23:31 <chlane> zakim, next item
18:23:31 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- -> Initial aria-textseparation (depends on generic PR being merged) https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/996 -- taken up [from agendabot]
18:23:48 <chlane> defer 996
18:23:54 <chlane> zakim, next item
18:23:54 <Zakim> agendum 6 was just opened, chlane
18:24:12 <chlane> zakim, close this item
18:24:12 <Zakim> agendum 6 closed
18:24:13 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
18:24:13 <Zakim> 7. -> Consider collapsing Base Concept category into Related Concepts https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1679 [from agendabot]
18:24:15 <chlane> zakim, next item
18:24:15 <Zakim> agendum 7 -- -> Consider collapsing Base Concept category into Related Concepts https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1679 -- taken up [from agendabot]
18:24:43 <chlane> scott no update assigned it to himself
18:24:49 <chlane> we are good on this one
18:25:13 <chlane> zakim, close this item
18:25:13 <Zakim> agendum 7 closed
18:25:14 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
18:25:14 <Zakim> 8. -> Inconsistency between native and ARIA listboxes when implicit aria-selected is provided https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1661 [from agendabot]
18:25:21 <chlane> zakim, next item
18:25:21 <Zakim> agendum 8 -- -> Inconsistency between native and ARIA listboxes when implicit aria-selected is provided https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1661 -- taken up [from agendabot]
18:26:11 <chlane> needs reviews
18:26:15 <jamesn> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1682
18:26:55 <chlane> matt will review
18:27:34 <MarkMcCarthy> s/matt will review/scott will review
18:27:38 <chlane> zakim, next item
18:27:38 <Zakim> agendum 9 -- -> Should ARIA provide better support for routing in single-page applications? https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1353 -- taken up [from agendabot]
18:28:04 <jamesn> https://github.com/WICG/app-history#customizations-and-consequences-of-navigation-interception
18:29:21 <chlane> scotts testing of WICG
18:29:21 <chlane> app-history
18:29:31 <chlane> with a screen reader
18:29:39 <chlane> things were read out
18:29:46 <chlane> no ARIA work
18:30:03 <chlane> browser implementers should look at it
18:30:28 <chlane> Matt, we look at a proposed change in a different spec
18:30:44 <chlane> scotto: this could add announcements for routing
18:31:04 <chlane> jamesn: it would allow a SPA to pretend it is reloading
18:31:10 <chlane> transparent to the users
18:31:19 <chlane> scotto: all the stuff we have to fake
18:32:30 <chlane> Matt should ARIA provide a way for page authors to give guidance to screen reader to ovveride default experience?
18:32:36 <chlane> commn problem
18:33:08 <jcraig> q+
18:33:11 <chlane> should we assist with ARIA
18:33:20 <chlane> cyns_: volunteers to work on this
18:33:59 <jcraig> https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/5562
18:34:01 <chlane> jamesn: is this mandated? would an author have to change the way they use the app history api?
18:34:11 <chlane> scotto: this is allowing authors to do more
18:34:42 <Matt_King> Matt_King has joined #aria
18:35:10 <chlane> scotto: reference to user report within the last year that incorporates what people are doing manually
18:35:21 <Matt_King> present+
18:35:24 <jamesn> https://github.com/WICG/app-history#customizations-and-consequences-of-navigation-interception
18:35:45 <chlane> research by fable labs
18:36:28 <chlane> scotto: to be clear, the whole point, the wcig proposal is linking this issue, a11y community should look into it
18:36:29 <jamesn> q?
18:36:35 <jamesn> ack jcraig
18:36:41 <chlane> cyns_: volunteers, spoke with dominic
18:37:45 <chlane> jamesc html proposal 5562 changing window.history
18:38:07 <chlane> no new a11y API needed
18:38:22 <chlane> scotto: it would be sufficient, ideally
18:38:38 <chlane> could be an extention that ARIA picks up
18:38:46 <chlane> could be brought back to ARI
18:38:54 <chlane> A
18:39:13 <chlane> jamesc assistive tech fallout could occur
18:39:43 <chlane> may be that we don't want to do that if the web author changes focus then fires this or vice versa does that matter
18:39:48 <jamesn> q?
18:39:58 <chlane> bryan asking about tabs implementation using window.pushstate
18:40:03 <chlane> to track active tab
18:40:20 <chlane> focus doesn't change
18:40:39 <chlane> jamesc the proposal wont break that use case
18:40:50 <chlane> aaronlev: related to chrome issue
18:41:15 <chlane> ff had back and forth still in memory just shows up no normal page load mechanism
18:41:28 <jamesn> q?
18:41:32 <jamesn> agenda?
18:41:33 <chlane> the back/forward cache is turned off
18:41:42 <chlane> matt related to windows tabs?
18:42:13 <chlane> screen readerr is still reading previous tab until he hits escape
18:42:26 <chlane> aaronlev: they did see that
18:42:48 <chlane> Matt_King: in those cases, no focus change event & api nothing gets fired?
18:43:17 <chlane> aaronlev: it is relevant to api
18:43:29 <chlane> screen reader treats it like a sudo page load
18:43:47 <MarkMcCarthy> s/sudo page/psuedo page
18:43:57 <chlane> cyns_: add these questions to issue
18:44:19 <chlane> rrsagent make minutes
18:44:31 <chlane> rrsagent, make minutes
18:44:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/02/17-aria-minutes.html chlane
18:44:41 <MarkMcCarthy> s/rrsagent make minutes/
18:44:55 <chlane> jamesn: TP
18:44:56 <chlane> A
18:45:18 <MarkMcCarthy> present+ cyns_
18:45:43 <chlane> 10 plus in person
18:45:56 <MarkMcCarthy> s/jamesn: TP/jamesn: TPAC
18:45:59 <chlane> dates Sept sometime
18:46:05 <chlane> 9/12 - 9/16
18:46:22 <chlane> jamesn: no announcements sent out
18:46:34 <chlane> jamesn: chairs getting interest
18:48:38 <MarkMcCarthy> rrsagent, make minutes
18:48:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/02/17-aria-minutes.html MarkMcCarthy
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