13:00:47 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wot
13:00:47 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/02/16-wot-irc
13:00:49 <McCool> McCool has joined #wot
13:01:17 <kaz> meeting: WoT-IG/WG
13:01:30 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Ege_Korkan, Michael_McCool
13:05:18 <ktoumura> ktoumura has joined #wot
13:06:05 <McCool> topic: minutes
13:06:13 <kaz> present+ Sebastan_Kaebisch, Daniel_Peintner, Kunihiko_Toumura, Michael_Lagally
13:06:15 <McCool> seb: feb 9 minutes
13:06:52 <kaz> i|feb|-> https://www.w3.org/2022/02/09-wot-minutes.html Feb-9|
13:07:07 <kaz> i/minutes/scribenick: McCool/
13:07:09 <kaz> q+
13:07:10 <McCool> ... ed call, japanese cg, tpac 2022, publication status, ...
13:07:27 <kaz> q-
13:07:33 <McCool> ege: what about tpac questionnaire?
13:07:49 <McCool> mm: will update later; initial one was to the chairs only, ...
13:08:35 <dape> dape has joined #wot
13:08:36 <McCool> seb: also talked about testing, ITU-T presentations, ITRF mtg
13:09:04 <McCool> ml: small typo (corrected)
13:09:16 <McCool> seb: any objections to publish?
13:09:26 <McCool> ... hearing none, will be published.
13:09:34 <McCool> topic: editor's call
13:11:35 <cris> cris has joined #wot
13:11:44 <kaz> sk: terminology discussion
13:11:58 <McCool_> McCool_ has joined #wot
13:12:04 <kaz> ... need clarification on Physical/Virtual, etc.
13:12:10 <kaz> topic: WoT-JP CG
13:12:13 <McCool_> (irc stopped working, some minutes lost, had to restart(
13:12:26 <kaz> mizu: planning to hold an open event on ECHONET collaboration on March 11
13:12:32 <kaz> ... details tbd
13:13:05 <kaz> s/(irc stopped working, some minutes lost, had to restart(//
13:13:06 <McCool_> topic: conformance statements for Notes
13:13:18 <McCool_> seb: for scripting, but may apply to others
13:13:21 <kaz> i/terminology/scribenick: kaz/
13:13:23 <mlagally__> mlagally__ has joined #wot
13:13:30 <McCool_> q+
13:13:33 <kaz> i/for sc/scribenick: McCool_/
13:13:35 <kaz> q+
13:13:53 <dape> q+
13:14:00 <kaz> ack m
13:14:10 <kaz> q- later
13:15:05 <McCool_> mm: two cases: drafts, and WG recommendations (as opposed to W3C recommendations)
13:15:31 <McCool_> dape: mostly the same, but does not make sense to define an API without normative statements
13:15:34 <dape> ack dape
13:15:42 <McCool_> ... so would like to proceed with this
13:16:01 <McCool_> kaz: W3C process has changed a bit, so is ok to publish normative statements in a note
13:16:10 <McCool_> ... but need to make decision as a group
13:16:10 <mlagally__> q+
13:16:15 <McCool_> q+
13:16:31 <kaz> ack k
13:16:34 <McCool_> ... so WG as a whole is still reponsible, and we need an explict resolution
13:16:43 <McCool_> s/explict/explicit/
13:16:55 <McCool_> seb: may have to discuss in a separate meeting
13:17:43 <kaz> i|may have|-> https://www.w3.org/2021/Process-20211102/#note-track W3C Process 2021 - 6.4. The Note Track (Notes and Statements)
13:17:48 <dape> q+
13:17:53 <McCool_> ml: understand what we are trying to accomplish; but would want to avoid Scripting API is required
13:18:03 <cris> q+
13:18:06 <McCool_> ... don't want to constrain how servients are implemented
13:18:12 <McCool_> q?
13:18:16 <McCool_> ack ml
13:18:40 <kaz> q+
13:18:41 <McCool_> dape: that is not the plan; more "if you want to be compliant with this document", but is not saying is required
13:19:17 <McCool_> ml: someone *could* go ahead and do something functionally equivalent in a different
13:19:29 <dape> ack dape
13:20:22 <kaz> ack m
13:20:31 <McCool_> ... just want to split implementation
13:21:03 <McCool_> mm: discovery has a similar issue; right now only a "SHOULD" assertion, so WoT Things are not required to implement discovery
13:21:17 <McCool_> ... could do something similar for scripting, but with a MAY
13:21:30 <McCool_> ml: or at least a clarification
13:21:32 <kaz> ack c
13:21:56 <McCool_> cris: note we use Web IDL, so while our examples are in JS in fact the definition does apply to other languages, e.g. Java
13:22:05 <dape> +1
13:22:34 <McCool_> seb: see also use of IDL for Dom, etc.
13:22:51 <McCool_> q?
13:23:35 <McCool_> kaz: please see the updated process document (link above) and review
13:24:17 <McCool_> ... and think about whether we want to do this, and perhaps have a resolution next week
13:24:30 <McCool_> mm: suggest we do a call-for-resolution on the email list
13:24:31 <kaz> ack k
13:24:37 <McCool_> topic: TPA
13:24:43 <McCool_> s/TPA/TPAC/
13:25:03 <McCool_> seb: request from W3M about hybrid meeting: virtual or physical
13:25:13 <McCool_> ... deadline is March 28, still some time
13:25:23 <kaz> q+
13:25:39 <McCool_> ... in chairs call, we thought it would be good to gather input from the group, eg. with an anon doodle call
13:25:57 <McCool_> ... gather input over the next few weeks
13:26:09 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
13:26:13 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:26:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/02/16-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:26:35 <McCool_> kaz: we talked about this last week as well
13:26:52 <McCool_> ... from W3M viewpoint, want to establish feasibility quickly
13:27:10 <McCool_> ... so please start to think about it from your viewpoint
13:27:58 <McCool_> ... we could also create a similar questionnaire
13:28:13 <McCool_> mm: and then collate inputs.  I would also not late until the very last minute
13:28:31 <McCool_> kaz: so far, only a few responses, not very excited about physical meetings
13:28:37 <McCool_> ... most are "unlikely"
13:29:39 <McCool_> kaz: depending on response, if most chairs say "unlikely", will cancel physical mtg
13:29:55 <kaz> present+ Cristiano_Aguzzi, Tomoaki_Mizushima
13:30:11 <kaz> s/will/probably need to/
13:30:11 <McCool_> mm: regardless, the choice is between fully virtual and hybrid, so remote attendance will be available either way
13:30:27 <McCool_> seb: ok, will collect input until mid-March, then make a decision
13:30:30 <kaz> present+ Michael_Koster
13:30:56 <kaz> action: kaz to generate a similar questionnaire for the group participants
13:31:17 <kaz> chair: Sebastian/McCool
13:31:25 <McCool_> topic: charters
13:32:00 <McCool_> seb: ig charter done, WG 4mo extension done, 12mo extension still in progress (waiting for sec and privacy wide review)
13:32:18 <McCool_> q+
13:32:22 <kaz> ack k
13:33:26 <cris> cris has joined #wot
13:33:36 <McCool_> mm: note there is a PR, we need to make a small change to the WG charter
13:34:28 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot/pull/1013 PR 1013 - changing the URL from the actual homepage to the auto-generated groups page (which has a link back to the homepage)|
13:34:29 <McCool_> seb: this just updates the URL to point to an intermediate page rather than directly at our web page
13:34:42 <McCool_> mm: new template, better to do what they expect
13:34:42 <kaz> s/)|/)/
13:34:51 <McCool_> seb: any objections to merge?
13:35:00 <McCool_> ... hearing none, merging
13:36:32 <McCool_> topic: decision process
13:36:39 <McCool_> seb: to we still want to keep this here?
13:37:07 <McCool_> mm: suggest we defer this to the fall when we discuss our new charter
13:37:46 <McCool_> ... a new process might make things more efficient, but in the short term it will be disruptive, and we just don't have the bandwidth
13:38:46 <McCool_> ... I do generally agree that having a clear, documented decision process is important
13:39:03 <McCool_> ... and we do need to take into account the opinions of those who cannot make meeting regularly
13:39:09 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:39:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/02/16-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:39:17 <McCool_> ... and we DO have a problem with some PR languishing...
13:39:19 <mlagally__> q+
13:39:35 <McCool_> ... but, I think we need to defer
13:39:38 <McCool_> ack m
13:39:47 <McCool_> ack mc
13:40:21 <McCool_> ml: proposal was to have an async process, had specific implications on how long we could discuss an issue
13:40:22 <McCool_> q+
13:40:58 <McCool_> ... many examples when we had long discussions in issues that went off track
13:42:00 <dezell> dezell has joined #wot
13:42:06 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:42:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/02/16-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:42:10 <McCool_> ... at some point the chair needs to be able to call for a conversion
13:42:22 <dezell> present+ David_Ezell
13:42:23 <McCool_> ... so I don't "mainly agree with this proposal"
13:42:47 <McCool_> seb: well, github does have tools for making decisions which we are not using
13:42:58 <McCool_> q+
13:43:04 <mlagally__> q+
13:43:36 <McCool_> ... and would be good not to lose time, but agree there are some important decisions which cannot be made with github
13:44:16 <McCool_> ... propose that we should clarify this in the task forces, "culture" which is followed
13:44:28 <McCool_> ... but new charter can include
13:44:37 <McCool_> ack mc
13:44:52 <McCool_> mm: just wanted to say we should table this for now and move on
13:45:03 <McCool_> ml: final issue: what does "thumbs up" mean?
13:45:25 <McCool_> seb: correct, need to write down what you mean, don't just do the thumbs up
13:45:44 <McCool_> ... w3c may have some guidelines
13:46:04 <sebastian> https://github.com/w3c/wot/pull/1005
13:46:14 <McCool_> topic: publications
13:46:29 <McCool_> seb: WD for TD 1.1 is on the way, possibly by end of this week
13:46:43 <McCool_> ... UC is also on the way?
13:46:51 <McCool_> kaz: right, but in progress
13:47:29 <McCool_> seb: last week we also added last set of normative additions to TD 1.1, including dataResponse and global URI definitions
13:47:40 <McCool_> ... stable, so called the normative freeze
13:47:48 <McCool_> ... schedule update
13:49:48 <McCool_> mm: was PR against schedule for updates, merged
13:50:00 <McCool_> ... included updates to Discovery dates
13:50:11 <McCool_> seb: feature freeze for Architecture?
13:50:24 <McCool_> ml: not yet, some open PRs
13:50:30 <McCool_> seb: expect this week?
13:50:41 <McCool_> ml: hopefully, depends on conversations this week
13:51:29 <McCool_> mm: should update schedule to give exact dates for plugfest
13:51:44 <kaz> i|was PR against|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/main/charters/wg-2021-extension-plan.md Updated scheduel|
13:54:01 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1397 wot-thing-description PR 1397 - WIP: Explainer 1.1
13:54:22 <cris> q+
13:54:23 <mlagally__> q+
13:55:07 <McCool_> mm: so we need to make decisions about how to do explainers
13:55:17 <McCool_> ... one big file, separate files, put in web page
13:55:33 <kaz> i|https|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1396 wot-thing-description Issue 1396 - Complete TAG/Security Wide Review Request|
13:55:38 <kaz> rrsagent, draft mintues
13:55:38 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'draft mintues', kaz.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
13:55:46 <kaz> s/rrsagent, draft mintues//
13:55:54 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:55:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/02/16-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:57:07 <McCool_> ml: I like the web page, short and simple
13:57:27 <McCool_> mm: my concern is we have to add some more information which might clutter up the web page
13:57:41 <McCool_> ... e.g. related standards, code examples, etc. etc.
13:58:09 <McCool_> cris: most people want a short intro, but some people want more info
13:58:28 <McCool_> ... maybe keep simply intro, but add links or a menu to other content
13:59:55 <McCool_> mm: could add links to content we develop...
13:59:58 <McCool_> q?
14:00:15 <McCool_> seb: agree that if we develop material, we should use it
14:00:27 <McCool_> ... also think that having information in one place would be useful
14:00:31 <McCool_> q+
14:00:47 <McCool_> ... and think we should extend the current web page
14:01:08 <McCool_> ack ml
14:01:14 <kaz> ack c
14:01:16 <cris> ack c
14:01:17 <McCool_> ack cris
14:01:20 <kaz> ack m
14:01:59 <McCool_> mm: propose we discuss in marketing, but to be clear, is a high priority
14:02:09 <McCool_> ... need to complete by end of next week at the latest
14:02:16 <kaz> q+
14:02:19 <McCool_> topic: any other business
14:02:32 <McCool_> seb: overtime, any other important items?
14:03:12 <McCool_> kaz: sent out reminder about CG chair selection procedure to CG list; Ege and Cristiano, please respond, restarting nomination
14:04:38 <McCool_> mm: AB Board wants to meet about LE restructuring; proposed for March 23
14:05:36 <McCool_> mk: meeting proposed with ASHRAE, standard for building, 223, also connected to BACNET
14:05:44 <McCool_> ... still organizing
14:05:55 <McCool_> ... some issues about URIs
14:06:07 <McCool_> ... not expecting that to happen today
14:07:11 <McCool_> seb: adjourn
14:07:54 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:07:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/02/16-wot-minutes.html kaz
14:20:45 <Mizushima> Mizushima has left #wot
14:49:26 <stevelee> stevelee has joined #wot
16:06:56 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wot
17:42:38 <sebastian> sebastian has joined #wot