13:53:09 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #pwg
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13:53:11 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
13:53:12 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), wendyreid
13:53:25 <wendyreid> meeting: Audiobooks WG Telco
13:53:33 <wendyreid> date: 16-02-2022
13:53:37 <wendyreid> chair: wendyreid
13:57:43 <tzviya> tzviya has joined #pwg
14:00:12 <wendyreid> present+
14:01:08 <tzviya> present+
14:04:44 <tzviya> scribe+
14:04:56 <wendyreid> https://github.com/w3c/audiobooks/issues/110
14:05:30 <tzviya> wendyreid: We made a decision around duration with fragment selector
14:05:50 <tzviya> we will not allow them on the URL property
14:06:10 <tzviya> ...I discovered that we had them in there for a reason.
14:06:23 <tzviya> ...some books have a single track for multiple chapters
14:06:36 <ivan> ivan has joined #pwg
14:06:51 <tzviya> ...This would require frag selectors for accurate nav
14:07:01 <ivan> present+
14:07:38 <tzviya> ...If we keep this requirement, we need to make a requirement for tOC
14:09:14 <tzviya> Laurent: We don't necessarily need both. If there is no ToC, there will be no fallback other than tracks and we can hope that tracks are in sync with semantic chapters
14:10:58 <tzviya> andreas: allowing frag selectors introduces many other requirements for RS
14:11:52 <tzviya> wendyreid: I am in favor of making ToC required, but it could be challenging
14:12:41 <tzviya> ... so we keep our original resolution w slightly tweaked language and add a note about importance of ToCs to fill the gap
14:13:33 <tzviya> andreas: Is Fragmented selector used today?
14:13:37 <tzviya> wendyreid: no
14:14:26 <tzviya> ivan: as far as I know the media fragment has remained a theoretical construct
14:15:12 <tzviya> wendyreid: we will hold off on merging the PR until I have made further edits
14:15:18 <tzviya> TOPIC: charter
14:15:34 <tzviya> wendyreid: are we currently charted in a way that we can make these changes?
14:16:11 <tzviya> ivan: do these changes adjust normative text?
14:16:14 <tzviya> wendyreid: yes
14:17:00 <tzviya> ivan: there are different classes of changes. If they are minor, then we can change them. We have to consider whether we can back them up with testing.
14:17:33 <tzviya> ...if this doesn't invalidate our tests or implementations then I think it can be done
14:18:28 <wendyreid> scribe+
14:19:00 <wendyreid> tzviya: It's clear to me that it's not clear to anyone how to implement the new process
14:19:09 <wendyreid> ivan: Goal was to simplify things right?
14:20:47 <tzviya> ivan: If we update we still need to issue a call to AC
14:22:07 <tzviya> laurent: We can say that we are resolving a contradiction in the spec
14:23:12 <ivan> -> classes of changes per process https://www.w3.org/2021/Process-20211102/#correction-classes
14:24:56 <tzviya> tzviya: It might not be in any of those categories; rather it could be errata
14:26:55 <tzviya> wendyreid: it looks like we can make some class 4 (new feature) changes
14:27:16 <wendyreid> https://github.com/w3c/audiobooks/issues/96
14:27:19 <wendyreid> https://github.com/w3c/audiobooks/issues/97
14:27:48 <ivan> github-bot, bye
14:27:48 <github-bot> github-bot has left #pwg
14:27:59 <tzviya> issue 96 is whether we require a ToC and 97 is asking if we use the format of Publication Manifest
14:28:27 <tzviya> ivan: I heard Laurent saying that requiring a ToC is unrealistic
14:28:43 <tzviya> ...it would invalidate most existing audiobooks
14:29:37 <tzviya> wendyreid: When we started discussions about toc, we were and still are concerned about a11y
14:29:57 <tzviya> ...HTML is the most obviously accessible, but is it?
14:30:39 <tzviya> laurent: reading systems extract labels. We could provide samples of simple HTML ToCs.
14:31:00 <tzviya> ...We have already done the work on Publication Manifest - let's use it
14:31:31 <tzviya> Andreas: we don't use the html. We convert it to an obj structure and then render as html, but it's no problem to parse it
14:32:13 <tzviya> laurent: In thorium I am planning basic HTML TOC with no css at all
14:32:38 <tzviya> ...and we will be able to show a more structured html toc as well
14:33:16 <tzviya> ...we should be clear that publishing manifest is the basis of ToC  so that people don't create something else
14:33:26 <tzviya> tzviya: +1
14:35:52 <tzviya> wendyreid: we can consider re-wording "A TOC, regardless of situation, SHOULD be included"
14:37:28 <tzviya> rrsagent, make logs
14:37:28 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make logs', tzviya.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
14:37:36 <tzviya> rrsagent, make minutes
14:37:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/02/16-pwg-minutes.html tzviya
14:37:57 <tzviya> rrsagent, make public
14:37:57 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make public', tzviya.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
14:38:06 <tzviya> rrsagent, make minutes public
14:38:06 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', tzviya.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
14:38:18 <tzviya> rrsagent, make logs public
14:38:24 <tzviya> rrsagent, make minutes
14:38:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/02/16-pwg-minutes.html tzviya
15:09:28 <ivan> zakim, end meeting
15:09:28 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been wendyreid, tzviya, ivan
15:09:29 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:09:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/02/16-pwg-minutes.html Zakim
15:09:33 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, ivan; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
15:09:37 <Zakim> Zakim has left #pwg
15:09:38 <ivan> rrsagent, bye
15:09:38 <RRSAgent> I see no action items