13:21:34 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wai-curricula
13:21:34 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/02/15-wai-curricula-irc
13:21:36 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
13:21:37 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), dmontalvo
13:22:47 <dmontalvo> agenda+ First ideas on writer modules https://github.com/w3c/wai-curricula/wiki/writer-modules-outline
13:23:13 <dmontalvo> agenda+ Overlaps with other roles https://github.com/w3c/wai-curricula/wiki/writer-modules-outline
13:28:01 <dmontalvo> zakim, agenda?
13:28:01 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda:
13:28:02 <Zakim> 1. First ideas on writer modules https://github.com/w3c/wai-curricula/wiki/writer-modules-outline [from dmontalvo]
13:28:02 <Zakim> 2. Overlaps with other roles https://github.com/w3c/wai-curricula/wiki/writer-modules-outline [from dmontalvo]
13:38:43 <dmontalvo> agenda+ Author versus writer
13:38:53 <dmontalvo> zakim, agenda ordder is 3, 1, 2
13:38:53 <Zakim> I don't understand 'agenda ordder is 3, 1, 2', dmontalvo
13:39:14 <dmontalvo> zakim, agenda order is 3, 1, 2
13:39:14 <Zakim> ok, dmontalvo
13:39:25 <dmontalvo> zakim, agenda?
13:39:25 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
13:39:26 <Zakim> 3. Author versus writer [from dmontalvo]
13:39:26 <Zakim> 1. First ideas on writer modules https://github.com/w3c/wai-curricula/wiki/writer-modules-outline [from dmontalvo]
13:39:26 <Zakim> 2. Overlaps with other roles https://github.com/w3c/wai-curricula/wiki/writer-modules-outline [from dmontalvo]
13:39:51 <dmontalvo> zakim, agenda order is 1, 3, 2
13:39:51 <Zakim> ok, dmontalvo
13:39:54 <dmontalvo> zakim, agenda?
13:39:54 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
13:39:55 <Zakim> 1. First ideas on writer modules https://github.com/w3c/wai-curricula/wiki/writer-modules-outline [from dmontalvo]
13:39:55 <Zakim> 3. Author versus writer [from dmontalvo]
13:39:55 <Zakim> 2. Overlaps with other roles https://github.com/w3c/wai-curricula/wiki/writer-modules-outline [from dmontalvo]
13:42:30 <dmontalvo> agenda+ Content writing that requires high level of expertise. How to address?
13:42:35 <dmontalvo> zakim, agenda
13:42:35 <Zakim> I don't understand 'agenda', dmontalvo
13:42:49 <dmontalvo> zakim, agenda?
13:42:49 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
13:42:50 <Zakim> 1. First ideas on writer modules https://github.com/w3c/wai-curricula/wiki/writer-modules-outline [from dmontalvo]
13:42:50 <Zakim> 3. Author versus writer [from dmontalvo]
13:42:50 <Zakim> 2. Overlaps with other roles https://github.com/w3c/wai-curricula/wiki/writer-modules-outline [from dmontalvo]
13:42:50 <Zakim> 4. Content writing that requires high level of expertise. How to address? [from dmontalvo]
13:43:16 <dmontalvo> zakim, agenda order is 1, 3, 4, 2
13:43:16 <Zakim> ok, dmontalvo
13:43:22 <dmontalvo> zakim, agenda?
13:43:22 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
13:43:23 <Zakim> 1. First ideas on writer modules https://github.com/w3c/wai-curricula/wiki/writer-modules-outline [from dmontalvo]
13:43:23 <Zakim> 3. Author versus writer [from dmontalvo]
13:43:23 <Zakim> 4. Content writing that requires high level of expertise. How to address? [from dmontalvo]
13:43:23 <Zakim> 2. Overlaps with other roles https://github.com/w3c/wai-curricula/wiki/writer-modules-outline [from dmontalvo]
13:44:43 <dmontalvo> zakim, make logs public
13:44:43 <Zakim> I don't understand 'make logs public', dmontalvo
13:45:05 <dmontalvo> zakim, make logs Public
13:45:05 <Zakim> I don't understand 'make logs Public', dmontalvo
13:45:23 <dmontalvo> zakim, make logs World
13:45:23 <Zakim> I don't understand 'make logs World', dmontalvo
13:46:05 <dmontalvo> Meeting: WAI Curricula Task Force Teleconference
13:46:09 <dmontalvo> Chair: Daniel
15:53:50 <brent> brent has joined #wai-curricula
16:02:05 <CarlosD> CarlosD has joined #wai-curricula
16:02:44 <GN> GN has joined #wai-curricula
16:02:50 <BrianE> BrianE has joined #wai-curricula
16:03:48 <estella> estella has joined #wai-curricula
16:03:48 <estella> scribe: estella
16:04:35 <BrianE> present+
16:04:37 <CarlosD> present+ Carlos
16:04:38 <brent> present+
16:04:38 <estella> present+
16:04:52 <Howard> Howard has joined #wai-curricula
16:04:55 <shawn> shawn has joined #wai-curricula
16:05:02 <shawn> present+
16:05:11 <sloandr> sloandr has joined #wai-curricula
16:10:26 <dmontalvo> zakim, take up next
16:10:26 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- First ideas on writer modules https://github.com/w3c/wai-curricula/wiki/writer-modules-outline -- taken up [from dmontalvo]
16:14:45 <Howard> present+ Howard
16:15:45 <estella> Daniel: There are 6 modules. First focus on upfront, then content structure, page, headings, paragraphs. Then links and how to write link text...
16:16:43 <estella> ...thinks that are under author responsabilities, then alt-text and images and how to write alt-texts. We may want to get into details...
16:17:41 <estella> ...then much the same with multimedia and the six module talks about instructions, messages for errors. This might be an overlap with a modules from the designers...
16:18:10 <estella> ...I am looking now for first impressions and what might be overlapping.
16:19:06 <estella> Carlos: Not really sure if this is what you are asking for. My first comment would be what the users of this curriculum would be looking for...
16:20:00 <estella> ...I only found this in multimedia. This is only my initial thought and putting in open. Should we address this?
16:20:07 <brent> q+
16:20:43 <estella> ...I would start with structure and then thers. Links are focused on text links and non text links should also be provided by content authors...
16:20:57 <estella> ...these are only my initial thoughts.
16:21:48 <estella> Daniel: The first point is very relevant. Is this the best structure within the modules? That's a good suggestion. We may move to a more content based structure.
16:21:53 <dmontalvo> ack bre
16:22:21 <GN> present+
16:23:11 <estella> Brent: I agree with Carlos. It is important to group thinks together and ask content writers to know how to group the different elements in the modules...
16:24:12 <estella> Daniel: I used a UC as an inspiration. For me the first think that they have to know is how to structure a document. That's the rationale behind...
16:24:29 <estella> ...I see Carlos point and see if we have to group them differently.
16:25:01 <estella> Gerhard: +1 to Carlos and Brent. For me an important point missing is E2U.
16:25:04 <estella> q+
16:25:12 <BrianE> q+
16:25:39 <estella> Daniel: Yes this is something missing that I want to address later on.
16:26:09 <sloandr> q+
16:26:30 <estella> ...we need to discuss how to approach this. I was thinking on a separate module on this issue.
16:27:00 <CarlosD> scribe: CarlosD
16:27:15 <CarlosD> estella: +1 to Carlos
16:27:44 <CarlosD> estella: additionally to the easy to read requirement, it is also needed to consider transcriptions
16:27:57 <dmontalvo> ack estel
16:28:11 <CarlosD> estella: we are also missing color contrast, which is also relevant to content authors
16:28:34 <estella> Daniel: This is something that we can address later on.
16:28:36 <CarlosD> scribe: estella
16:30:17 <CarlosD> estella: this module also applies to people who own a personal website... we need to consider these users, that do not work with developers and designers
16:30:27 <sloandr> present+
16:30:53 <CarlosD> ... they will need to know to measure the color contrast
16:31:05 <dmontalvo> ack bri
16:31:10 <estella> Daniel: Which type of author are we addressing is something that we may have to discuss also.
16:32:10 <shawn> q+ to ask what different organization might be?
16:32:20 <estella> Brian: To me it makes sense to have an introductory module on how address the language and good writing techniques. From general into specifics.
16:32:21 <Howard> q+
16:32:44 <slewth> slewth has joined #wai-curricula
16:32:45 <estella> Daniel: I understand the point of an introduction module.
16:32:48 <estella> q+
16:33:09 <dmontalvo> ack dav
16:34:12 <estella> David: Couple of additional observations it that module and topics are more specific than in other curricula. I am also wondering if we are missing tables or other problematic content...
16:34:35 <estella> ...text alternative for complex graphics or mathematical content.
16:35:10 <estella> Daniel: I was struggling myself with the page titles. Type content based would be a good solution.
16:35:20 <dmontalvo> ack shaw
16:35:20 <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to ask what different organization might be?
16:35:23 <sloandr> q-
16:35:54 <slewth> q+
16:36:06 <estella> Shawn: I was wondering about the recommendation of content based type and would like to know if anybody has an idea.
16:36:38 <estella> Carlos: I should give a thought.
16:36:55 <estella> Daniel: I also have a difficulty on this.
16:37:22 <dmontalvo> ack howar
16:37:22 <estella> Daniel: I would have to give it a thought.
16:38:09 <dmontalvo> ack es
16:38:10 <estella> Howard: Making writing understandable should also be explored.
16:38:12 <estella> q-
16:38:27 <dmontalvo> ack sle
16:39:42 <estella> Sarah: I agree with the different points. I wonder also about labelling, maps and other different issues. Maybe grouping content might be useful...
16:40:03 <estella> ...having an overarching introduction and then go into more detail.
16:40:47 <estella> Daniel: We need to restructure. Since we have too many different type of audiences we may need to know how to approach this.
16:40:51 <estella> q+
16:41:26 <CarlosD> estella: an issue relevant to content authors is the use of inclusive language
16:42:26 <CarlosD> dmontalvo: That would fall under a module about language
16:42:55 <CarlosD> ... I'm not sure if this is going over the current accessibility requirements we have
16:43:35 <dmontalvo> q?
16:43:48 <dmontalvo> ack ste
16:43:56 <CarlosD> ack est
16:44:48 <dmontalvo> zakim, take up next
16:44:48 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Author versus writer -- taken up [from dmontalvo]
16:45:00 <estella> Daniel: Thanks for the thoughts. We will need to see how to address inclusive language and also plain language or easy to read
16:45:30 <dmontalvo> www.w3.org/WAI/curricula/
16:46:34 <estella> Daniel: We had different ideas about content authors, should we use this term. In WCAG content authors are different agents.
16:46:57 <estella> ...let's leave it open for discussion. What do you think?
16:48:11 <estella> ...something similar with what we did with the designer, and we ended up focusing on visual designers and UX researchers.
16:48:56 <shawn> q?
16:48:59 <estella> ...writer emphasises more on the writing part of what a writer needs to take into account.
16:49:46 <estella> Carlos: Writer seems to me to focus on writing and we need to address other types of content authors...
16:50:06 <BrianE> q+
16:50:14 <estella> ...I would not focus on content writer and I prefer author but I do not have a clear opinion.
16:51:13 <estella> ...initially I was thinking more on content authors with a team but we should also consider content authors with no teams and working alone.
16:52:47 <estella> Daniel: If you do not have the technical knowledge and the CMS do not have the accessible possibilities what should you do then?
16:53:04 <estella> Carlos: Well then you should change your tool.
16:53:06 <shawn> q+
16:53:48 <estella> Daniel: Then we properly need to introduce things such as "what the tool can do and can not do"
16:53:50 <estella> q+
16:54:16 <shawn> q- later
16:54:22 <shawn> ack b
16:54:28 <dmontalvo> ack bri
16:55:08 <estella> Brian: If you are a one man team you want to have the knowledge of all the different modules...
16:55:26 <shawn> +1 to Brian on focusing this set on writing (not broader issues like contrast or tools)
16:55:38 <estella> ...sometimes we need content writers to ensure that a proper alt-text is provided.
16:56:28 <estella> ...all the challenges that content authors have are very important but it has to be something specific about writing.
16:57:32 <estella> Daniel: In the overview page we can say that this is mainly aimed to instructors. The curricula is also designed for that.
16:58:04 <CarlosD> estella: which is your inspirational use case?
16:59:14 <CarlosD> ... even when working in a team, the content author is responsible for the content, not the designer or developer
17:00:05 <estella> Daniel: My focus might be mainly on writing content not considering the different CMS.
17:01:07 <CarlosD> estella: so we're not considering the different CMS neither LMS
17:01:32 <dmontalvo> ack ste
17:01:33 <shawn> Use case is instructors. Scope -- For this curricula with specific modules, I think this one should focus only on writing words, not on things like contast that are covered in the designer modules.
17:01:59 <dmontalvo> q?
17:02:12 <estella> Shawn: One of the big things is that is about instructors. Therefore we want to focus on the writing of words...
17:02:17 <dmontalvo> ack este
17:02:21 <dmontalvo> ack shaw
17:02:34 <shawn> "Author" vs. "Writer" -- complicated by WCAG wording. That alone might 'force' us into writer.
17:03:41 <estella> ...the other point is that if you go to WCAG the word "content author" is used for different roles.
17:04:08 <estella> Daniel: We can discuss this issue and explain in the overview page.
17:04:15 <estella> ...I will follow up with you.
17:04:30 <dmontalvo> rrsagent, make minutes v1
17:04:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/02/15-wai-curricula-minutes.html dmontalvo