16:02:39 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #editing
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16:02:56 <comandeer> present+ Tomasz Jakut
16:03:10 <johanneswilm> present+
16:03:14 <Travis> Meeting: Web Editing Meeting 2022-02-10
16:04:26 <alexk> alexk has joined #editing
16:04:33 <BoCupp> scribe BoCupp
16:04:42 <BoCupp> scribe: BoCupp
16:05:03 <Travis> Topic: jitsi or continue on Google Meet?
16:05:39 <BoCupp> https://github.com/w3c/editing/pull/389
16:05:51 <Travis> github: https://github.com/w3c/editing/pull/389
16:06:18 <BoCupp> johanneswilm: switch to Jitsi
16:06:26 <BoCupp> BoCupp: also say we switch
16:07:02 <BoCupp> resolved we will move to Jitsi
16:07:48 <Travis> Topic: Anything futher on insertFrom... deleteBy.. etc.?
16:07:59 <Travis> github: https://github.com/w3c/input-events/pull/122
16:08:10 <Travis> BoCupp: Are we still exploring other options?
16:08:14 <Travis> scribe: Travis
16:09:12 <Travis> johanneswilm: Actually... we're on 122 w3c/input-events
16:09:19 <Travis> .. is there consensus on this?
16:10:33 <Travis> BoCupp: Last status... on 12/10 we were asking DavidMulder...
16:10:41 <Travis> johanneswilm: So, you and masayuki are in agreement?
16:10:45 <Travis> BoCupp: Yes, I think so.
16:11:32 <Travis> johanneswilm: BoCupp could you please confirm that this is ready to merge?
16:12:21 <Travis> BoCupp: looked like masayuki was answering david's question... I think earlier in the thread it looked like masayuki would be disappointed if chromium did add these...
16:12:41 <Travis> .. will double check, and post to the issue.
16:14:08 <Travis> Topic: Better times for the meeting?
16:14:17 <Travis> github: https://github.com/w3c/editing/issues/359
16:14:46 <Travis> BoCupp: I think we did move to the current time... don't think we're planning on moving to another time..?
16:15:09 <Travis> .. I'm not sure there was interest in having alternating times?
16:15:35 <Travis> johanneswilm: masayuki noted he wasn't able to attend meetings through 2021... but perhaps that's changed?
16:16:02 <Travis> action: check back with Masayuki and see what his attendance may be like?
16:16:22 <Travis> Topic: Concern for screen readers
16:16:25 <Travis> github: https://github.com/w3c/virtual-keyboard/issues/15
16:16:42 <Travis> BoCupp: Noticed my action here...
16:16:52 <Travis> .. checking with anupam...
16:17:02 <Travis> snianu: No conclusion yet... perhaps we can discuss today?
16:17:22 <Travis> BoCupp: Haven't had any progress on this one. Will come back to it next month.
16:17:41 <Travis> Topic: Arbitrary clipboard types
16:17:44 <Travis> github: https://github.com/w3c/clipboard-apis/issues/165
16:18:03 <Travis> BoCupp: from our last meeting, it sounds like we are flexible and willing to adopt AnneVK's proposal.
16:18:16 <Travis> AnneVK is OK with his own proposal..
16:18:33 <Travis> Microsoft is OK with it.
16:19:00 <Travis> whsieh: Would like a bit more time to think about it... do like the shape of this proposal more than the unsanitized flag, though.
16:19:19 <Travis> .. I'll give it some thought and post something here on this issue in about a week.
16:19:28 <Travis> .. was there some other issue that went into more detail?
16:19:40 <Travis> .. I was thinking of #150
16:19:55 <Travis> .. (https://github.com/w3c/clipboard-apis/issues/150)
16:20:43 <Travis> BoCupp: I think AnneVK split these into two issues... one was about the shape of the API (letting the author pick something from the clipboard)
16:21:22 <BoCupp> https://github.com/w3c/clipboard-apis/issues/150#issuecomment-1031684598
16:21:31 <Travis> .. the other about aligning between getData (datatransfer) and behavior of async API.
16:21:48 <Travis> .. so user agents may optional transfer that content.
16:21:56 <Travis> whsieh: I'll leave a comment by next week.
16:22:24 <Travis> action: whsieh to leave a comment on https://github.com/w3c/clipboard-apis/issues/165 in support or with other perspectives.
16:22:53 <Travis> Topic: Checking on the blocked clipboard-write permission?
16:22:56 <Travis> github: https://github.com/w3c/clipboard-apis/pull/164
16:23:05 <Travis> BoCupp: I think the interested party is not here though...
16:23:13 <Travis> .. should probabaly ping Mozilla.
16:23:33 <Travis> .. Problem: we use clipboard read/write permission so that they can be granted to iframes.
16:23:48 <Travis> .. iframe's can't even do it without delegated authority.
16:24:02 <Travis> .. Office programs are hosted in different hosts and run in iframes. So we wanted to remove this.
16:24:19 <Travis> .. the objection was that firefox/safari were aligned on not wanting that.
16:24:35 <Travis> .. Seems like Apple has a trusted UI context menu. A second click is needed.
16:25:01 <Travis> .. Firefox has not shipped the API yet... I was wondering what Firefox' model is/will be. How would they solve the delegated authority issue?
16:25:16 <Travis> .. Will the adopt the Apple approach? Will the not have a permission? Have they even faced the issue yet?
16:25:42 <Travis> .. want to leave the issue as-is in hope of getting alignment on the current behavior? That's why we've left it blocked.
16:25:50 <Travis> johanneswilm: Remind us why you need an iframe?
16:26:32 <Travis> BoCupp: Yes, Microsoft Sharepoint is a shell that allows browsing of documents... when a doc is opened, Sharepoint loads a cross-origin iframe with the "word" logic to display it.
16:26:46 <Travis> .. Office app architecture is designed to be hosted in cross-origin iframes.
16:27:26 <Travis> .. Also, navigator.clipboard.read does not need to happen in context of a paste event. It may require a user gesture.
16:27:48 <Travis> .. We don't want the user to get prompted from some random iframe unless that authority has been delegated.
16:28:40 <Travis> Travis: user only sees the address bar url.. iframe prompt would look like it came from that url. Confusing to the user.
16:28:56 <Travis> BoCupp: I don't think there's an action to take today other than a followup later.
16:30:37 <Travis> Topic: TPAC this year is in Vancouver, B.C.
16:30:57 <Travis> .. I assume we'll want to meet at TPAC?
16:31:16 <Travis> johanneswilm: Yes. We get extra participation (especially Google and Firefox).
16:31:30 <Travis> .. We also get participation from those who work on websites, which is great.
16:31:43 <Travis> .. Also other editors (CKEditor, etc.) which is very good input.
16:32:26 <Travis> Travis: shall we reach out to W3C member companies who are also editors?
16:32:37 <Travis> johanneswilm: We can get in some of the small players as Invited Experts.
16:33:14 <Travis> .. I can try to reach out to some of the non-big players. Folks like Faceboook may not be aware of these meetings and would have valuable feedback.
16:34:12 <Travis> .. I think it makes sense for you (big companies) to reach out...
16:34:27 <Travis> .. TPAC is week of Sept. 12
16:34:52 <Travis> BoCupp: If Microsoft is not in Stage 6, we won't be able to attend big gatherings.
16:35:09 <Travis> .. I anticipate that the "Stage 6" is coming.
16:35:22 <Travis> johanneswilm: You can reach out to editor folks at Microsoft?
16:35:31 <Travis> BoCupp: Yes, monaco editor, rooster (?) editor.
16:35:37 <Travis> johanneswilm: Same with you whsieh ?
16:35:41 <Travis> whsieh: Yep, will do.
16:36:08 <Travis> johanneswilm: Meeting adjurned (early!)
16:36:21 <Travis> zakim, end the meeting
16:36:21 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been snianu, Tomasz, Jakut, johanneswilm
16:36:23 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2
16:36:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/02/10-editing-minutes.html Zakim
16:36:26 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, Travis; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
16:36:31 <Zakim> Zakim has left #editing
16:36:40 <Travis> rrsagent, pleae make the logs public
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16:36:53 <Travis> rrsagent, please make the logs public
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16:37:00 <Travis> rrsagent: make the logs public
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16:37:44 <Travis> rrsagent: make logs public
16:41:24 <Travis> Chair: johanneswilm
16:41:37 <Travis> Present+ BoCupp
16:41:55 <Travis> Present+ whsieh
16:43:05 <Travis> rrsagent: draft the minutes
16:43:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/02/10-editing-minutes.html Travis