IRC log of editing on 2022-02-10

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:02:39 [RRSAgent]
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16:02:39 [RRSAgent]
logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/02/10-editing-irc
16:02:56 [comandeer]
present+ Tomasz Jakut
16:03:10 [johanneswilm]
present+
16:03:14 [Travis]
Meeting: Web Editing Meeting 2022-02-10
16:04:26 [alexk]
alexk has joined #editing
16:04:33 [BoCupp]
scribe BoCupp
16:04:42 [BoCupp]
scribe: BoCupp
16:05:03 [Travis]
Topic: jitsi or continue on Google Meet?
16:05:39 [BoCupp]
https://github.com/w3c/editing/pull/389
16:05:51 [Travis]
github: https://github.com/w3c/editing/pull/389
16:06:18 [BoCupp]
johanneswilm: switch to Jitsi
16:06:26 [BoCupp]
BoCupp: also say we switch
16:07:02 [BoCupp]
resolved we will move to Jitsi
16:07:48 [Travis]
Topic: Anything futher on insertFrom... deleteBy.. etc.?
16:07:59 [Travis]
github: https://github.com/w3c/input-events/pull/122
16:08:10 [Travis]
BoCupp: Are we still exploring other options?
16:08:14 [Travis]
scribe: Travis
16:09:12 [Travis]
johanneswilm: Actually... we're on 122 w3c/input-events
16:09:19 [Travis]
.. is there consensus on this?
16:10:33 [Travis]
BoCupp: Last status... on 12/10 we were asking DavidMulder...
16:10:41 [Travis]
johanneswilm: So, you and masayuki are in agreement?
16:10:45 [Travis]
BoCupp: Yes, I think so.
16:11:32 [Travis]
johanneswilm: BoCupp could you please confirm that this is ready to merge?
16:12:21 [Travis]
BoCupp: looked like masayuki was answering david's question... I think earlier in the thread it looked like masayuki would be disappointed if chromium did add these...
16:12:41 [Travis]
.. will double check, and post to the issue.
16:14:08 [Travis]
Topic: Better times for the meeting?
16:14:17 [Travis]
github: https://github.com/w3c/editing/issues/359
16:14:46 [Travis]
BoCupp: I think we did move to the current time... don't think we're planning on moving to another time..?
16:15:09 [Travis]
.. I'm not sure there was interest in having alternating times?
16:15:35 [Travis]
johanneswilm: masayuki noted he wasn't able to attend meetings through 2021... but perhaps that's changed?
16:16:02 [Travis]
action: check back with Masayuki and see what his attendance may be like?
16:16:22 [Travis]
Topic: Concern for screen readers
16:16:25 [Travis]
github: https://github.com/w3c/virtual-keyboard/issues/15
16:16:42 [Travis]
BoCupp: Noticed my action here...
16:16:52 [Travis]
.. checking with anupam...
16:17:02 [Travis]
snianu: No conclusion yet... perhaps we can discuss today?
16:17:22 [Travis]
BoCupp: Haven't had any progress on this one. Will come back to it next month.
16:17:41 [Travis]
Topic: Arbitrary clipboard types
16:17:44 [Travis]
github: https://github.com/w3c/clipboard-apis/issues/165
16:18:03 [Travis]
BoCupp: from our last meeting, it sounds like we are flexible and willing to adopt AnneVK's proposal.
16:18:16 [Travis]
AnneVK is OK with his own proposal..
16:18:33 [Travis]
Microsoft is OK with it.
16:19:00 [Travis]
whsieh: Would like a bit more time to think about it... do like the shape of this proposal more than the unsanitized flag, though.
16:19:19 [Travis]
.. I'll give it some thought and post something here on this issue in about a week.
16:19:28 [Travis]
.. was there some other issue that went into more detail?
16:19:40 [Travis]
.. I was thinking of #150
16:19:55 [Travis]
.. (https://github.com/w3c/clipboard-apis/issues/150)
16:20:43 [Travis]
BoCupp: I think AnneVK split these into two issues... one was about the shape of the API (letting the author pick something from the clipboard)
16:21:22 [BoCupp]
https://github.com/w3c/clipboard-apis/issues/150#issuecomment-1031684598
16:21:31 [Travis]
.. the other about aligning between getData (datatransfer) and behavior of async API.
16:21:48 [Travis]
.. so user agents may optional transfer that content.
16:21:56 [Travis]
whsieh: I'll leave a comment by next week.
16:22:24 [Travis]
action: whsieh to leave a comment on https://github.com/w3c/clipboard-apis/issues/165 in support or with other perspectives.
16:22:53 [Travis]
Topic: Checking on the blocked clipboard-write permission?
16:22:56 [Travis]
github: https://github.com/w3c/clipboard-apis/pull/164
16:23:05 [Travis]
BoCupp: I think the interested party is not here though...
16:23:13 [Travis]
.. should probabaly ping Mozilla.
16:23:33 [Travis]
.. Problem: we use clipboard read/write permission so that they can be granted to iframes.
16:23:48 [Travis]
.. iframe's can't even do it without delegated authority.
16:24:02 [Travis]
.. Office programs are hosted in different hosts and run in iframes. So we wanted to remove this.
16:24:19 [Travis]
.. the objection was that firefox/safari were aligned on not wanting that.
16:24:35 [Travis]
.. Seems like Apple has a trusted UI context menu. A second click is needed.
16:25:01 [Travis]
.. Firefox has not shipped the API yet... I was wondering what Firefox' model is/will be. How would they solve the delegated authority issue?
16:25:16 [Travis]
.. Will the adopt the Apple approach? Will the not have a permission? Have they even faced the issue yet?
16:25:42 [Travis]
.. want to leave the issue as-is in hope of getting alignment on the current behavior? That's why we've left it blocked.
16:25:50 [Travis]
johanneswilm: Remind us why you need an iframe?
16:26:32 [Travis]
BoCupp: Yes, Microsoft Sharepoint is a shell that allows browsing of documents... when a doc is opened, Sharepoint loads a cross-origin iframe with the "word" logic to display it.
16:26:46 [Travis]
.. Office app architecture is designed to be hosted in cross-origin iframes.
16:27:26 [Travis]
.. Also, navigator.clipboard.read does not need to happen in context of a paste event. It may require a user gesture.
16:27:48 [Travis]
.. We don't want the user to get prompted from some random iframe unless that authority has been delegated.
16:28:40 [Travis]
Travis: user only sees the address bar url.. iframe prompt would look like it came from that url. Confusing to the user.
16:28:56 [Travis]
BoCupp: I don't think there's an action to take today other than a followup later.
16:30:37 [Travis]
Topic: TPAC this year is in Vancouver, B.C.
16:30:57 [Travis]
.. I assume we'll want to meet at TPAC?
16:31:16 [Travis]
johanneswilm: Yes. We get extra participation (especially Google and Firefox).
16:31:30 [Travis]
.. We also get participation from those who work on websites, which is great.
16:31:43 [Travis]
.. Also other editors (CKEditor, etc.) which is very good input.
16:32:26 [Travis]
Travis: shall we reach out to W3C member companies who are also editors?
16:32:37 [Travis]
johanneswilm: We can get in some of the small players as Invited Experts.
16:33:14 [Travis]
.. I can try to reach out to some of the non-big players. Folks like Faceboook may not be aware of these meetings and would have valuable feedback.
16:34:12 [Travis]
.. I think it makes sense for you (big companies) to reach out...
16:34:27 [Travis]
.. TPAC is week of Sept. 12
16:34:52 [Travis]
BoCupp: If Microsoft is not in Stage 6, we won't be able to attend big gatherings.
16:35:09 [Travis]
.. I anticipate that the "Stage 6" is coming.
16:35:22 [Travis]
johanneswilm: You can reach out to editor folks at Microsoft?
16:35:31 [Travis]
BoCupp: Yes, monaco editor, rooster (?) editor.
16:35:37 [Travis]
johanneswilm: Same with you whsieh ?
16:35:41 [Travis]
whsieh: Yep, will do.
16:36:08 [Travis]
johanneswilm: Meeting adjurned (early!)
16:36:21 [Travis]
zakim, end the meeting
16:36:21 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been snianu, Tomasz, Jakut, johanneswilm
16:36:23 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2
16:36:23 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/02/10-editing-minutes.html Zakim
16:36:26 [Zakim]
I am happy to have been of service, Travis; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye
16:36:31 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #editing
16:36:40 [Travis]
rrsagent, pleae make the logs public
16:36:40 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'pleae make the logs public', Travis. Try /msg RRSAgent help
16:36:53 [Travis]
rrsagent, please make the logs public
16:36:53 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'please make the logs public', Travis. Try /msg RRSAgent help
16:37:00 [Travis]
rrsagent: make the logs public
16:37:00 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'make the logs public', Travis. Try /msg RRSAgent help
16:37:08 [Travis]
Yes, I know you are logging...
16:37:44 [Travis]
rrsagent: make logs public
16:41:24 [Travis]
Chair: johanneswilm
16:41:37 [Travis]
Present+ BoCupp
16:41:55 [Travis]
Present+ whsieh
16:43:05 [Travis]
rrsagent: draft the minutes
16:43:05 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/02/10-editing-minutes.html Travis