16:47:02 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #apa
16:47:02 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/02/02-apa-irc
16:47:04 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
16:47:04 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #apa
16:47:06 <trackbot> Meeting: Accessible Platform Architectures Working Group Teleconference
16:47:06 <trackbot> Date: 02 February 2022
16:47:14 <Matthew_Atkinson> agenda?
16:49:08 <Matthew_Atkinson> agenda+ Agenda Review & Announcements
16:49:12 <Matthew_Atkinson> agenda+ Proposed Change in Teleconference Hour--Moving to 10:00 AM (Boston) effective 16 February
16:49:16 <Matthew_Atkinson> agenda+ Task Force & Deliverables Updates
16:49:20 <Matthew_Atkinson> agenda+ FAST & Deliverables Update
16:49:24 <Matthew_Atkinson> agenda+ New Charters Review https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22
16:49:27 <Matthew_Atkinson> agenda+ A11y Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review
16:49:30 <Matthew_Atkinson> agenda+ new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html
16:49:33 <Matthew_Atkinson> agenda+ Actions Checkin (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/open
16:49:36 <Matthew_Atkinson> agenda+ Dangling Spec Review Cleanup: https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Category:Spec_Review_Assigned
16:49:40 <Matthew_Atkinson> agenda+ Other Business
16:49:43 <Matthew_Atkinson> agenda+ be done
16:50:34 <Matthew_Atkinson> trackbot, status
16:50:45 <Matthew_Atkinson> agenda?
16:56:39 <Fazio> Fazio has joined #apa
16:56:49 <Matthew_Atkinson> chair: Matthew_Atkinson
17:01:04 <janina> scribe:
17:01:08 <janina> scribe: janina
17:01:24 <mike_beganyi> mike_beganyi has joined #apa
17:01:41 <mike_beganyi> present+
17:01:51 <Fredrik> Fredrik has joined #apa
17:02:00 <Irfan> Irfan has joined #apa
17:02:03 <Matthew_Atkinson> regrets: Becky
17:02:04 <Fredrik> present+
17:02:08 <Irfan> present+
17:02:28 <Gottfried> Gottfried has joined #apa
17:02:36 <Matthew_Atkinson> present+
17:02:37 <janina> zakim, next item
17:02:37 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Agenda Review & Announcements -- taken up [from Matthew_Atkinson]
17:02:40 <janina> present+
17:02:41 <Fazio> present+
17:02:42 <Gottfried> present+
17:04:50 <janina> daviIs hosting a colleague from Russia in San Fran, under U.S.Embassy sponsorship, re exchange of info; may join APA next week
17:05:46 <Matthew_Atkinson> s/daviIs/David is/
17:06:02 <janina> janina: TPAC 2022 in Vancouver September 12-16
17:07:33 <janina> zakim, next item
17:07:33 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Proposed Change in Teleconference Hour--Moving to 10:00 AM (Boston) effective 16 February -- taken up [from Matthew_Atkinson]
17:07:57 <janina> Matthew_Atkinson: Now expecting to start 10:00 Boston effective 16 February
17:08:35 <janina> Matthew_Atkinson: Has been previously discussed in telecon and on list; no major objections
17:08:50 <janina> Matthew_Atkinson: If any major problem, please advise asap
17:09:00 <janina> q?
17:09:09 <janina> zakim, next item
17:09:09 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Task Force & Deliverables Updates -- taken up [from Matthew_Atkinson]
17:09:40 <janina> subtitle: Pronunciation
17:09:53 <Matthew_Atkinson> rrsagent, make minutes
17:09:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/02/02-apa-minutes.html Matthew_Atkinson
17:09:53 <MichaelC> s/subtitle/subtopic/
17:09:59 <Gottfried_> Gottfried_ has joined #apa
17:10:24 <Matthew_Atkinson> rrsagent, make minutes
17:10:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/02/02-apa-minutes.html Matthew_Atkinson
17:10:25 <Jonny_James> Jonny_James has joined #apa
17:10:28 <Jonny_James> present+
17:11:32 <janina> PaulG: Will be moving time soon; WBS polling in progress; Most likely a swap to Noon
17:11:45 <janina> PaulG: Still responding to issues; working up more use cases
17:12:00 <janina> PaulG: Also some recruiting looks successful
17:13:47 <janina> subtopic: Personalization
17:14:20 <janina> Matthew_Atkinson: We still have an I18N blocker; we're getting closer to showing our spec works as expected to close it
17:14:38 <janina> Matthew_Atkinson: Running internal checks as is multi-lang
17:15:01 <janina> Matthew_Atkinson: Also looking at renaming our suite of specs to be with a consistent naming scheme
17:15:09 <janina> subtopic: coga
17:15:23 <janina> davidno news
17:15:31 <janina> subtopic: rqtf
17:15:47 <Matthew_Atkinson> s/subtopic: coga/subtopic: COGA/
17:15:50 <janina> janina: Issue processing ongoing with several note track docs
17:16:01 <janina> janina: SAUR close to complete and will be first to advance
17:16:03 <Matthew_Atkinson> s/davidno news/Fazio: no news/
17:16:10 <MichaelC> q+
17:16:31 <Matthew_Atkinson> s/subtopic: rqtf/subtopic: RQTF/
17:18:23 <Matthew_Atkinson> scribe: Matthew_Atkinson
17:18:41 <Matthew_Atkinson> MichaelC: Note that COGA Work Statement has been agreed by the group and is ready for review by the APA and AG chairs.
17:18:44 <Gottfried> Gottfried has joined #apa
17:18:44 <Joshue108> present+
17:19:03 <janina> MichaelC: Draft WS from COGA -- MichaelC Formally, Work Statements should be approved by WGs
17:19:08 <Matthew_Atkinson> scribe: janina
17:20:21 <janina> zakim, next item
17:20:21 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, janina
17:20:24 <MichaelC> ack me
17:20:28 <janina> zakim, next item
17:20:28 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- FAST & Deliverables Update -- taken up [from Matthew_Atkinson]
17:21:25 <janina> Joshue108: Subgroup heard presentation from a11y for children; some focus on pedagogy and a11y in relation
17:21:56 <janina> Joshue108: also updated on further back and forth; some delay re deceptive patterns that could be problematic
17:22:17 <janina> subtopic: publications
17:22:37 <Matthew_Atkinson> scribe: Matthew_Atkinson
17:23:19 <Matthew_Atkinson> janina: Previously FAST was an APA deliverable; it moved to Silver and it is expected that it will return to APA for further publication.
17:24:30 <Fazio> Thank you
17:24:34 <Matthew_Atkinson> janina: Work on an Accessibility Maturity Model was being undertaken within AGWG and it has recently been discussed that this may move out of AGWG. Thus it may need a new home, and APA is a possibility if so. This was mentioned on the AGWG call yesterday to a small degree. Further discussion within AGWG and APA needed (to introduce it to you, if need be).
17:25:02 <Fazio> I chair the Maturity Model group with Sheri Byrne-Haber
17:25:30 <Matthew_Atkinson> Gottfried: We are working on a model too. Is the W3C model focused on sites, or organizations?
17:25:44 <Matthew_Atkinson> janina: Wider than web sites, so could cover more areas, as long as they're web-related.
17:25:52 <Fazio> we meet the hour before APA
17:25:54 <Matthew_Atkinson> Gottfried: We may have people who could contribute.
17:26:05 <Matthew_Atkinson> janina: That would be great.
17:26:18 <Matthew_Atkinson> +1 to janina
17:26:38 <Matthew_Atkinson> janina: It's intended to be useful to a wide range of organizations.
17:27:00 <Matthew_Atkinson> Fazio: Focusing on what is W3C accessibility; what does it mean and how do you sustain it?
17:27:26 <Matthew_Atkinson> Fazio: Ensuing that accessibility is consistent across different channels, and advice on sustaining it applicable for organizations of different sizes.
17:27:33 <Gottfried_> Gottfried_ has joined #apa
17:27:50 <Matthew_Atkinson> Fazio: It cotnains information about creating a continued process of improvement a la ISO 9001. But it's not tied into ISO's accessibility standard.
17:27:57 <Matthew_Atkinson> Fazio: The current draft is on GitHub
17:28:22 <Matthew_Atkinson> Gottfried: AFAIK the first model of this kind is from the Business Disability Forum.
17:28:28 <Gottfried_> https://businessdisabilityforum.org.uk/knowledge-hub/resources/tech-taskforce-accessibility-maturity-model/
17:29:28 <Matthew_Atkinson> janina: We are thinking this may be a good fit for W3C Statement status (which is new).
17:29:32 <Fazio> Maturity Model https://w3c.github.io/wcag-maturity-model/
17:29:49 <Matthew_Atkinson> scribe: janina
17:29:56 <janina> zakim, next item
17:29:56 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- New Charters Review https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22 -- taken up [from Matthew_Atkinson]
17:30:28 <janina> MichaelC: none
17:30:34 <janina> zakim, close this item
17:30:34 <Zakim> agendum 5 closed
17:30:35 <Zakim> I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:30:35 <Zakim> 6. A11y Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review [from Matthew_Atkinson]
17:30:35 <janina> MichaelC: none
17:31:29 <MichaelC> https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/6869
17:31:42 <janina> s/none/
17:32:07 <janina> MichaelC: CSS Zoom -- much to look at
17:32:46 <janina> paul: Zoom and resolution are both important; no browser provides good data
17:33:24 <janina> paul: better data would be helpful for content creation; especially automating tests per wcag criteria
17:34:21 <janina> Matthew_Atkinson: believe we're interested
17:34:27 <janina> janina: also advise Silver
17:34:52 <janina> Matthew_Atkinson: was concerned about fingerprinting; but the testing is very interesting opportunity
17:35:58 <Matthew_Atkinson> scribe: Matthew_Atkinson
17:36:18 <Gottfried> Gottfried has joined #apa
17:36:25 <Matthew_Atkinson> janina: One benefit of moving APA call is we won't clash with CSS. We also could approach CSS (and attend) to ask for potential liaison.
17:36:34 <Matthew_Atkinson> scribe: janina
17:36:50 <Matthew_Atkinson> q?
17:36:55 <janina> zakim, next item
17:36:55 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- A11y Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review -- taken up [from Matthew_Atkinson]
17:37:32 <janina> zakim, close this item
17:37:32 <Zakim> agendum 6 closed
17:37:33 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:37:33 <Zakim> 7. new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html [from Matthew_Atkinson]
17:37:33 <janina> zakim, next item
17:37:34 <Zakim> agendum 7 -- new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html -- taken up [from Matthew_Atkinson]
17:37:53 <janina> michael: nothing
17:37:58 <janina> zakim, close this item
17:37:58 <Zakim> agendum 7 closed
17:37:59 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:37:59 <Zakim> 8. Actions Checkin (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/open [from Matthew_Atkinson]
17:38:03 <janina> zakim, next item
17:38:03 <Zakim> agendum 8 -- Actions Checkin (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/open -- taken up [from Matthew_Atkinson]
17:38:33 <janina> action-2317?
17:38:33 <trackbot> action-2317 -- Janina Sajka to Review miniapps -- due 2022-02-02 -- OPEN
17:38:33 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2317
17:39:26 <Lionel_Wolberger> Lionel_Wolberger has joined #apa
17:39:31 <Lionel_Wolberger> agenda?
17:39:39 <Lionel_Wolberger> q?
17:39:45 <Lionel_Wolberger> present+
17:39:59 <Matthew_Atkinson> scribe: Matthew_Atkinson
17:40:20 <Matthew_Atkinson> janina: Concern around whether the Accessibility Considerations section is normative or not.
17:40:28 <Matthew_Atkinson> MichaelC: The spec says it's non-normative.
17:41:02 <Matthew_Atkinson> janina: No strong opinion at the moment; Roy was involved so let's wait until we can discuss with Roy.
17:41:18 <Matthew_Atkinson> scribe: janina
17:41:19 <janina> scribe: janina
17:41:30 <janina> Matthew_Atkinson: any others?
17:42:04 <janina> [crickets]
17:43:03 <janina> Matthew_Atkinson: some look just unclosed; looking at Fredrik
17:43:12 <janina> Fredrik: yes!
17:43:22 <janina> Fredrik: have UI Events pending for next week
17:44:22 <janina> Fredrik: will certainly check
17:44:32 <Matthew_Atkinson> q?
17:44:35 <janina> zakim, next item
17:44:35 <Zakim> agendum 9 -- Dangling Spec Review Cleanup: https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Category:Spec_Review_Assigned -- taken up [from Matthew_Atkinson]
17:44:58 <janina> MichaelC: Still have WoT
17:45:09 <Gottfried_> Gottfried_ has joined #apa
17:45:22 <Matthew_Atkinson> scribe: Matthew_Atkinson
17:45:37 <MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Web_of_Things_(WoT)_Profile
17:46:25 <Matthew_Atkinson> janina: We discussed this in RQTF with Joshue108 et al. There is an important accessibility issue that we raised, which we may've discovered after our last deep interaction with WoT. Joshue108 is checking up on the documentation.
17:47:41 <Matthew_Atkinson> janina: The issue is middleware. E.g. a device may be accessible in the sense that it works with a particular voice assistant, but it turns out that you need to configure it in the first instance with a specific app, and the app may turn out to be inaccessible.
17:48:16 <Matthew_Atkinson> janina: You may also need to sign up for an account for that specific middleware platform, which may be in a different country etc. and there's an immense variety of middleware and variability in accessibility.
17:48:45 <Matthew_Atkinson> janina: We are calling this 'middleware' and I want to write it up and have us work with WoT to express it using their terms.
17:49:12 <Matthew_Atkinson> janina: This information needs to be expressed in sales copy, on packaging, etc., so that we can search/filter for/on it.
17:49:30 <janina> scribe: janina
17:49:44 <janina> zakim, next item
17:49:44 <Zakim> agendum 10 -- Other Business -- taken up [from Matthew_Atkinson]
17:49:58 <janina> [crickets]
17:50:36 <janina> Matthew_Atkinson: given there's time; the personalization discussion of renaming reminds me of the three hard topics in comp sci:
17:50:57 <janina> 1. Naming
17:51:03 <janina> 2. Cache invalidation
17:51:13 <janina> 3. Off by one errors
17:51:22 <Matthew_Atkinson> s/of the three hard/of the two hard/
17:51:40 <janina> Matthew_Atkinson: it's not original to me!
17:52:01 <janina> Lionel_Wolberger: are you counting fencing; or fence posts?
17:52:12 <janina> zakim, bye
17:52:12 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been mike_beganyi, Fredrik, Irfan, Matthew_Atkinson, janina, Fazio, Gottfried, Jonny_James, Joshue, Lionel_Wolberger
17:52:12 <Zakim> Zakim has left #apa
17:53:33 <Matthew_Atkinson> s/1. Naming/1. Naming things/
17:53:46 <Matthew_Atkinson> s/1. Naming/1. Naming things/
17:53:54 <Gottfried> Gottfried has joined #apa
17:53:59 <janina> zakim, next item
17:54:07 <Matthew_Atkinson> agenda?
17:54:26 <Matthew_Atkinson> rrsagent, make minutes
17:54:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/02/02-apa-minutes.html Matthew_Atkinson
17:57:06 <Matthew_Atkinson> s/1. Naming things things/1. Naming things/
17:57:10 <Matthew_Atkinson> rrsagent, make minutes
17:57:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/02/02-apa-minutes.html Matthew_Atkinson
17:58:15 <Matthew_Atkinson> s/the two hard topics/the two hard problems/
17:58:32 <Matthew_Atkinson> rrsagent, make minutes
17:58:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/02/02-apa-minutes.html Matthew_Atkinson