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10:59:20 <kaz> meeting: WoT Architecture
11:00:16 <mlagally_> mlagally_ has joined #wot-arch
11:01:56 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_Lagally, Michael_McCool
11:02:01 <Mizushima> Mizushima has joined #wot-arch
11:05:32 <kaz> present+ Ege_Korkan
11:05:38 <kaz> present+ Ryuichi_Matsukura
11:05:54 <McCool> McCool has joined #wot-arch
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11:06:09 <McCool> topic: minutes
11:06:32 <McCool> ml: noticed a few things, font on point 0 is strange
11:06:53 <McCool> ... and a typo, Editors spelling
11:07:33 <kaz> i|noticed|-> https://www.w3.org/2022/01/20-wot-arch-minutes.html Jan-20|
11:08:53 <McCool> ml: hearing no objections, minutes approved
11:08:59 <McCool> topic: publication timeline
11:09:02 <kaz> i/hearing/(fixed)/
11:09:08 <McCool> ml: let's confirm current plan
11:09:21 <McCool> ... Feb 4 is next week's call
11:09:32 <McCool> ... normative sections; is an issue for that, by next week
11:09:38 <McCool> ... also normative feature freeze
11:10:14 <kaz> present+ Sebastian_Kaebisch, Tomoaki_Mizushima
11:10:23 <McCool> mm: would be helpful to have an updated list of assertions
11:10:25 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
11:10:29 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
11:10:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/27-wot-arch-minutes.html kaz
11:10:46 <McCool> mm: want to make sure that if we wanted to move an assertion it was done
11:11:11 <kaz> q+
11:11:48 <McCool> kaz: need to check document level consistency first, and then assertions
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11:12:15 <McCool> ... document consistency is Feb 4
11:12:35 <McCool> mm: what does document consistency entail?
11:13:13 <McCool> ... I assume is also means checking terminology, etc.
11:13:28 <McCool> ... basically I'm saying a more detailed checklist would be helpful
11:13:46 <McCool> ml: ok, let's create an issue
11:13:56 <McCool> ... to review document consistency
11:14:22 <McCool> ... verifying terminology
11:14:26 <McCool> ... checking text
11:14:38 <McCool> ... in normative chapters
11:14:54 <McCool> ... verifying assertions are fit for purpose
11:15:13 <McCool> ... proposing additional normative text if required
11:15:59 <McCool> mm: if someone notices an issue, please create a PR to fix it so we can resolve it next week
11:17:23 <McCool> mm: should we separate internal and inter- document consistency?
11:19:07 <McCool> ml: that work has been ongoing for a while
11:19:26 <McCool> mm: not saying we do the work next week, just that we check it has been done and confirm it
11:20:49 <McCool> ml: will assign all task force leads
11:21:31 <kaz> chair: Lagally
11:22:03 <kaz> present+ Kunihiko_Toumura
11:22:14 <McCool> ml: please review entire doc, not just a few sections... looking for consistency problems
11:23:20 <McCool> mm: I assume we will also be suppressing empty sections, editor's comments, etc?
11:23:44 <McCool> ml: depends on the case
11:24:08 <McCool> mm: ok, then let's flag issues in such sections if we see them, e.g. normative text inside an editor's comment
11:25:40 <McCool> topic: contributions
11:27:38 <McCool> ml: what about hubs PR?
11:27:50 <McCool> mm: still needs to be finished, is important, but is not normative
11:28:03 <McCool> ml: ok, PR #658
11:28:13 <McCool> ... Improve Section Structure
11:28:51 <McCool> ... fixed a missing closing tag, and also fixed a reference to use cases that used a fixed section number
11:29:24 <McCool> ... changed name of "System Components" to "System Concepts"
11:29:41 <McCool> ... and 6.9, System Integration, is a subsection
11:31:14 <McCool> mm: also cross-domain collab very similar, makes sense to have these be siblings
11:31:51 <McCool> ml: propose merging
11:31:55 <McCool> mm: concur
11:32:04 <McCool> ml: merged
11:32:14 <McCool> ml: pr #665
11:32:22 <McCool> ... placeholder section on orchestration
11:33:52 <kaz> i|what about hubs|subtopic: PR 603|
11:34:13 <kaz> i|what about hubs|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/pull/603 PR 603 - WIP: Define and Discuss "Hubs"|
11:34:31 <kaz> i|ok, PR #658|subtopic: PR 658|
11:35:00 <kaz> i|ok, PR #658|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/pull/658 Improve section structure|
11:35:17 <kaz> i|p #665|subtopic: PR 665|
11:35:26 <McCool> mm: not sure it belongs under digital twins
11:35:44 <kaz> i|p #665|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/pull/665 PR 665 - placeholder section on orchestration|
11:36:23 <McCool> ... but think we can put it in for now, and reorganize later
11:36:47 <McCool> mm: pr #667
11:36:56 <McCool> ... virtual things
11:37:05 <kaz> i|pr #667|subtopic: PR 667|
11:37:33 <kaz> i|pr #667|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/pull/667 PR 667 - adding placeholder section for virtual things|
11:38:19 <McCool> mm: are we sure it doesn't appear somewhere else?
11:39:10 <kaz> q?
11:39:14 <kaz> ack k
11:39:17 <kaz> q+ Ege
11:39:19 <kaz> ack e
11:39:26 <McCool> mm: definition is also a little odd, just components, not other things we have discussed, eg. room
11:40:04 <McCool> ege: composition mechanism deals with rooms, etc.
11:40:40 <kaz> q+
11:41:08 <kaz> -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_device Virtual device
11:41:13 <kaz> -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_twin Digital twin
11:41:42 <McCool> mm: agree we need a more detailed description of this concept
11:41:58 <McCool> kaz: are some wikipedia entries for this term also we should look at
11:42:02 <sebastian> q+
11:42:07 <kaz> ack k
11:42:52 <McCool> seb: want to mention we have a definition of virtual thing, since arch 1.1
11:43:42 <McCool> ml: so you're saying we have a definition and should not touch it
11:44:36 <McCool> seb: so why are we bringing this up now?
11:44:56 <McCool> mm: I think the problem is we just don't have enough discussion of its purpose
11:47:07 <McCool> mm: is it like a "virtual class" (no affordances) or a non-physical service (e.g. a simulation)
11:47:55 <McCool> ml: placeholder section only for now
11:48:17 <McCool> mm: agree we should add the section, then capture input in the issue, have a consensus, then add content
11:48:33 <kaz> q?
11:48:35 <kaz> ack s
11:48:37 <McCool> ml: PR #668
11:48:44 <McCool> ml: merged
11:48:51 <McCool> ml: pr #669
11:48:53 <kaz> i|PR #668|subtopic: PR 668|
11:49:15 <kaz> i|PR #668|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/pull/668 PR 668 - remove remove-arch-op-wellknown-compare assertion|
11:49:26 <kaz> i|PR #669|subtopic: PR 669|
11:49:53 <McCool> ml: Producer
11:50:07 <kaz> i|PR #669|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/pull/669 PR 669 - Producer definition|
11:50:07 <McCool> mm: note "Exposer" has been used before, and is more consistent
11:50:44 <McCool> ... but I think Producer sounds better
11:51:03 <kaz> q+
11:51:31 <McCool> mm: just noting it is inconsistent, not suggesting we change it
11:51:50 <McCool> kaz: right now Producer is used just once
11:52:02 <McCool> ... but Expose verbs are used a lot more
11:52:36 <McCool> mm: suggesting we allow both Exposer and Producer as synonyms
11:52:47 <McCool> kaz: Producer implies generation as well
11:53:35 <McCool> mm: right, Exposer does not imply generation, and there cases where the Thing exposing a TD is not generating it
11:53:42 <McCool> ... e.g. a proxy
11:53:51 <kaz> ack k
11:54:14 <McCool> ml: also note that events also use the verb producer
11:55:32 <McCool> mm: maybe we should hold off on this PR until we gather more input
11:55:55 <McCool> ml: proposed text also have "specific" thing
11:56:22 <McCool> ... also "create"
11:56:43 <McCool> mm: perhaps "create" should be "makes available", since again, it may not "generate" it
11:56:57 <McCool> ... case of the proxy again, or even just a database
11:57:13 <McCool> ... e.g. a database
11:57:19 <McCool> ml: pr #677
11:57:34 <McCool> ml: removing table 1, we discussed this at length already
11:57:46 <McCool> ml: conflicts, can we agree to merge it?
11:57:59 <McCool> mm: concur
11:58:40 <McCool> ml: seems to be no objections
11:59:22 <McCool> ml: pr #679
11:59:27 <McCool> mm: a draft
11:59:34 <kaz> i|pr #677|subtopic: PR 677|
11:59:39 <McCool> ml: but may be good to merge so people know about the issue
12:00:01 <McCool> mm: ok, then I'll work on a separate PR with actual new considerations
12:00:11 <kaz> i|pr #677|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/pull/677 PR 677 - removing table 1|
12:00:21 <kaz> i|pr #679|subtopic: PR 679|
12:00:48 <McCool> ml: issue #678
12:00:50 <kaz> i|pr #679|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/pull/679 PR 679 - Update Security and Privacy Considerations|
12:01:08 <McCool> ml: respec errors, please volunteer to clean up if you can
12:01:10 <kaz> i|issue #678|subtopic: Issue 678|
12:01:48 <kaz> i|issue #678|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/issues/678 Issue 678 - Fix Respec errors|
12:01:50 <kaz> [adjourned]
12:01:54 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:01:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/27-wot-arch-minutes.html kaz
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