17:53:12 RRSAgent has joined #aria 17:53:12 logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/01/27-aria-irc 17:53:15 RRSAgent, make logs Public 17:53:16 please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), jamesn 17:53:30 meeting: ARIA WG 17:53:42 agenda+ [New Issue Triage](https://bit.ly/32znE0J) [New PR Triage](https://bit.ly/3IVVrkn) 17:53:42 * [Deep Dive planning](https://bit.ly/aria-meaty-topic-candidates) 17:53:42 ### Quick Status Checks 17:53:42 * [Initial aria-textseparation (depends on generic PR being merged)](https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/996) 17:53:42 * [Inconsistency between native and ARIA listboxes when implicit aria-selected is provided](https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1661) 17:53:43 ### In-Depth Discussion 17:53:43 * [Clarify usage of aria-haspopup](https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1024) 17:54:02 agenda+ [New Issue Triage](https://bit.ly/32znE0J) [New PR Triage](https://bit.ly/3IVVrkn) 17:54:02 [Deep Dive planning](https://bit.ly/aria-meaty-topic-candidates) 17:54:02 ### Quick Status Checks 17:54:02 * [Initial aria-textseparation (depends on generic PR being merged)](https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/996) 17:54:02 * [Inconsistency between native and ARIA listboxes when implicit aria-selected is provided](https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1661) 17:54:03 ### In-Depth Discussion 17:54:03 * [Clarify usage of aria-haspopup](https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1024) 17:54:10 zakim, clear agenda 17:54:10 agenda cleared 17:54:25 agendabot, find agenda 17:54:25 jamesn, OK. This may take a minute... 17:54:25 agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/1d223877-730c-446f-bfa9-2e9222902112/20220127T130000 17:54:25 clear agenda 17:54:25 agenda+ New Issue Triage 17:54:25 agenda+ New PR Triage 17:54:28 agenda+ Deep Dive planning 17:54:30 agenda+ Initial aria-textseparation (depends on generic PR being merged) 17:54:33 agenda+ Inconsistency between native and ARIA listboxes when implicit aria-selected is provided 17:54:36 agenda+ Clarify usage of aria-haspopup 17:56:26 regrets+ JoanieDiggs 17:56:41 regrets+ PeterKrautzberger 18:01:13 carmacleod has joined #aria 18:01:18 harris has joined #aria 18:01:21 present+ 18:01:45 Scribe: chlane 18:02:06 sarah_higley has joined #aria 18:02:36 present+ 18:02:39 Irfan has joined #aria 18:02:42 TOPIC: 1/27/22 ARIA Working Group Meeting 18:02:43 present+ 18:03:13 agenda? 18:03:20 New Issue Triage 18:03:27 zakim, next item 18:03:27 agendum 1 -- New Issue Triage -- taken up [from agendabot] 18:03:47 https://bit.ly/32znE0J 18:03:51 CurtBellew has joined #aria 18:04:00 Topic: should tab role have ax tab button as subrole 18:04:15 scotto has joined #aria 18:04:20 present+ 18:04:48 present+ 18:05:29 James buttons inside tabs create a mapping issue 18:05:49 tab is a children presentation true element 18:06:10 topic: tree grid aria orientation 18:06:39 MarkMcCarthy has joined #aria 18:06:45 present+ 18:06:49 scott: aria orientation supported for treegid, assuming it is a oversite, it is not allowed on tables or grids 18:07:03 Matt: solution for blocking inheritence? 18:07:36 Matt: remove tree as superclass, what is the effect? 18:07:53 matt: should be editorial 18:08:11 StefanS has joined #aria 18:08:21 james, scott: low priority 18:08:30 aaronlev has joined #aria 18:09:55 zakim, next item 18:09:55 agendum 2 -- New PR Triage -- taken up [from agendabot] 18:10:01 s/Topic:/Subtopic:/ 18:10:11 New Issue Triage 18:10:13 https://bit.ly/3IVVrkn 18:10:22 zakim, next item 18:10:22 agendum 2 was just opened, MichaelC 18:11:15 1687, 1686 are related to the charter, editorial 18:11:44 zakim, next item 18:11:44 agendum 3 -- Deep Dive planning -- taken up [from agendabot] 18:12:13 Topic: core AAM Mapping 18:12:42 Scott will merge 18:13:05 Topic: handling author errors 18:13:16 Scott needs reviews 18:13:48 purpose to specify form and region roles do not be exposed if they don't have names 18:14:44 Topic: 18:15:01 Topic HTML element mappings 18:15:41 cleanup removing interface declarations, changing elements to map to generic, holding off due to verbiage 18:15:59 defined in Core AAM for generic 18:16:47 melsumner has joined #aria 18:16:53 present+ 18:17:36 Topic: 18:17:42 Topic: 18:18:12 agenda? 18:19:32 Topic: figcaption name computation 18:19:42 zakim, drop item 5 18:19:42 agendum 5, Inconsistency between native and ARIA listboxes when implicit aria-selected is provided, dropped 18:19:44 zakim, next item 18:19:45 agendum 4 -- Initial aria-textseparation (depends on generic PR being merged) -- taken up [from agendabot] 18:20:11 zakijm, take up item 3 18:20:16 zakim, take up item 3 18:20:16 agendum 3 -- Deep Dive planning -- taken up [from agendabot] 18:20:48 https://bit.ly/aria-meaty-topic-candidates 18:21:27 zakim, close this item 18:21:27 agendum 3 closed 18:21:28 I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 18:21:28 4. Initial aria-textseparation (depends on generic PR being merged) [from agendabot] 18:21:31 zazkim, take up item 4 18:21:36 zakim, take up item 4 18:21:36 agendum 4 -- Initial aria-textseparation (depends on generic PR being merged) -- taken up [from agendabot] 18:22:28 zakim, take up item 6 18:22:28 agendum 6 -- Clarify usage of aria-haspopup -- taken up [from agendabot] 18:23:46 https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1024 Scott mentioned we needed more time on this 18:26:42 Scott aria-haspopup, non true/false values lack AT support, haspopup changed buttons to menubuttons. We don't need to specify that we are popping up a dialog 18:27:03 wish we could go back to aria-haspopup to being binary 18:31:12 s/Scott aria-haspopup/Scott: aria-haspopup 18:37:37 Matt: we let the action describe itself 18:38:40 the menu value was dealing with support issues of the past 18:39:22 as long as the popup describes itself 18:39:40 the only reason to have aria-haspopup 18:40:03 if the popup itself requiered a special action 18:40:15 aria haspopup feels legacy 18:40:23 doesn't solve any problems 18:41:51 Melenie votes for simplicity 18:43:45 q+ to say that deprecating aria-haspopup worries me from a backward compatibility standpoint. 18:44:06 aria-expandedl, focus should remain 18:44:41 can't let the new content present itself 18:45:00 Bryan, it doesn't solve a problem 18:45:04 present+ 18:45:06 can only have one token value 18:45:17 but a button can generate a listbox and have an attached menu 18:45:18 s/Melenie votes for simplicity/Melanie: votes for simplicity 18:45:25 s/Bryan: it doesn't solve a problem 18:45:39 s/Bryan, it doesn't solve a problem/Bryan: it doesn't solve a problem 18:45:56 it was flawed, favors making it simpler 18:46:29 not sure why combobox needs haspopup 18:47:00 per Matt, deprecate only use for legacy API's 18:47:10 to really go for simplification 18:48:12 Bryan, favors simpler token values, but not eliminated on use with active element roles 18:48:37 user would likely not be aware of the popup menu 18:48:46 is aria-haspopup the right solution 18:49:00 would it be better then new properties like aria-actions 18:49:18 bryan, worries that if we change it it will break functionality 18:50:44 aria-haspop true/false only and only use for menus, supported by Bryan and Matt 18:53:22 aria-haspopup is only used for menus with only true/false values, backwards compatibility will be fixed, deprecated tokens 18:53:38 dialog could be interpreted is false 18:53:56 processing non valid tokens 18:54:16 Scott, it would need to be false 18:54:54 menu would be interpreted as true 18:55:36 use aria-haspopup for a menu button or don't use it 18:56:32 s/Bryan, favors/Bryan: favors 18:56:58 s/Scott, it/Scott: it 18:58:43 present+ 18:59:01 zakim, who is here? 18:59:01 Present: carmacleod, sarah_higley, Irfan, CurtBellew, scotto, MarkMcCarthy, StefanS, harris, spectranaut 18:59:04 On IRC I see melsumner, StefanS, MarkMcCarthy, scotto, Irfan, sarah_higley, harris, carmacleod, RRSAgent, Zakim, cyns, agendabot, tzviya, chlane, zcorpan_, github-bot, MichaelC, 18:59:04 ... `join_subline, joanie, dcaro_, slightlyoff, spectranaut, gregwhitworth, timeless_, JonathanNeal_, Josh_Soref_, ZoeBijl, bigbluehat, jamesn, jcraig, trackbot 18:59:34 bkardell_ has joined #aria 18:59:49 present+ melsumner, chlane 19:00:25 rrsagent, make minutes 19:00:25 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/27-aria-minutes.html chlane 19:01:13 present+ Matt_King 19:01:17 RRSAgent, make minutes 19:01:17 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/27-aria-minutes.html MarkMcCarthy 19:02:58 present+ aaronlev, jamesn, cyns 19:03:00 RRSAgent, make minutes 19:03:00 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/27-aria-minutes.html MarkMcCarthy 19:03:46 present+ MichaelC 19:03:47 RRSAgent, make minutes 19:03:47 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/27-aria-minutes.html MarkMcCarthy 20:01:50 jongunderson has joined #aria 20:17:40 chlane has joined #aria 21:00:13 chlane has joined #aria 21:17:14 zcorpan has joined #aria