14:06:25 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #personalization
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14:06:27 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:06:30 <trackbot> Meeting: Personalization Task Force Teleconference
14:06:30 <trackbot> Date: 24 January 2022
14:06:50 <sharon> zakim, clear agenda
14:06:50 <Zakim> agenda cleared
14:06:56 <sharon> agenda?
14:07:12 <sharon> chair: Sharon
14:07:55 <sharon> agenda+ Content Module Implementations Status (Follow-up on i18n issue #144)
14:08:53 <sharon> agenda+ Defining short names for the modules
14:09:08 <sharon> agenda+ Planning COGA January meeting on Our Other Two Modules
14:57:41 <Lionel_Wolberger> Lionel_Wolberger has joined #personalization
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15:01:02 <Matthew_Atkinson> present+
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15:02:01 <Lionel_Wolberger> agenda?
15:02:29 <mike_beganyi> mike_beganyi has joined #personalization
15:02:31 <Roy> present+
15:02:58 <mike_beganyi> scribe: mike_beganyi
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15:03:19 <mike_beganyi> zakim, next item
15:03:19 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Content Module Implementations Status (Follow-up on i18n issue #144) -- taken up [from sharon]
15:03:20 <CharlesL> CharlesL has joined #personalization
15:03:30 <CharlesL> present+
15:03:50 <mike_beganyi> present+
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15:04:23 <JF> Present+
15:04:25 <janina> present+
15:04:37 <mike_beganyi> Matthew_Atkinson: Lisa and I have been working on extension. I am refining code to apply to example. will be sharing with chairs of i18n
15:04:45 <janina> q+
15:05:03 <becky> present+
15:05:38 <mike_beganyi> Matthew_Atkinson: found the code that deals with mappings. get the code to apply the mapping and load the correct symbol.
15:06:13 <sharon> ack janina
15:06:39 <Lionel_Wolberger> q+
15:06:48 <sharon> q?
15:07:05 <mike_beganyi> janina: glad about data dash. i18n is more concerned that symbols will display correctly, not necessarily as important to finalize mapping
15:07:19 <mike_beganyi> janina: can always work out better mappings later
15:07:33 <mike_beganyi> janina: does it work and does it display? does it change direction? most important
15:07:43 <mike_beganyi> ack Lionel_Wolberger
15:07:43 <sharon> ack Lionel_Wolberger
15:08:11 <mike_beganyi> Lionel_Wolberger: suggest we have at least 3 symbols and rotate between them. one is not sufficient to demonstrate
15:10:02 <mike_beganyi> janina: draft e-mail to i18n in order to facilitate potential meeting but APA to i18n chair to resolve issue 144
15:10:14 <mike_beganyi> zakim, next item
15:10:14 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Defining short names for the modules -- taken up [from sharon]
15:11:03 <Matthew_Atkinson> q+
15:11:24 <mike_beganyi> Lionel_Wolberger: we will require that the names appear in the modules
15:11:34 <mike_beganyi> janina: and the names are used consistently in the modules
15:12:32 <Matthew_Atkinson> Note for the minutes: JF suggested: "Personalization: Content Module", "Personalization: Help and Support Module", "Personalization: Tools Module" - HT https://www.w3.org/2022/01/10-personalization-minutes.html
15:12:55 <mike_beganyi> janina: we've agreed the first word should be "Personalization".
15:13:09 <mike_beganyi> janina: last word is always "Module"
15:13:17 <mike_beganyi> ack Matthew_Atkinson
15:13:22 <sharon> ack Matthew_Atkinson
15:13:47 <JF> Q+
15:14:21 <mike_beganyi> Matthew_Atkinson: issue of semantics or alternative content. the outcome seems to be yes we're talking about both. I like the schema that JF suggested
15:14:59 <mike_beganyi> Matthew_Atkinson: we should look a tthe URL and whether we want to have dash semantics (-semantics) in the URL
15:15:30 <sharon> ack JF
15:16:03 <Matthew_Atkinson> The URI for the latest published version of the Content module is https://www.w3.org/TR/personalization-semantics-content-1.0/
15:17:18 <janina> q+
15:17:20 <mike_beganyi> JF: first three attributes of module 1 are taken up far more frequently than the symbol attribute. I think it's important but it's really about semantics. we're providing metadata. the larger effort is providing machine parse-able metadata
15:18:11 <sharon> ack janina
15:18:32 <LisaSeemanKest> q+
15:18:44 <mike_beganyi> janina: are we discussing whether to include "semantics" in all module names? should we discuss this now or look at remainder of titling and then decide later?
15:18:56 <sharon> ack LisaSeemanKest
15:19:44 <Lionel_Wolberger> +1 to provisional titles for subsequent modules
15:19:57 <mike_beganyi> janina: are we discussing whether to include "semantics" in all module names? should we discuss this now or look at remainder of titling and then decide later?
15:19:59 <janina> q+ to agree with Lisa on the schema
15:20:01 <JF> Q+
15:20:09 <sharon> q?
15:20:35 <mike_beganyi> LisaSeemanKest: don't want to run the risk of having things left out
15:20:44 <sharon> ack janina
15:20:44 <Zakim> janina, you wanted to agree with Lisa on the schema
15:21:57 <mike_beganyi> janina: pulling the word "semantics" increases our options for naming. might be information in explainer to clarify this. it is use to lock in the first and third words (personalization and module respectfully)
15:22:01 <sharon> ack JF
15:22:38 <JF> https://w3c.github.io/personalization-semantics/help/index.html#moreinfo-explanation
15:23:24 <janina> q+
15:23:47 <mike_beganyi> JF: acknowledge Lisa's concern, but important to be clear so we have path forward
15:24:13 <LisaSeemanKest> q+
15:24:18 <mike_beganyi> JF: returning to semantics, one of the keys in the attributes is to support other modalities, including highlighting buttons. we are facilitating the ability to point things out and tagging them with metadata
15:24:24 <sharon> ack janina
15:24:39 <JF> +1
15:24:43 <mike_beganyi> janina: want to acknowledge that primary approach has been driven by COGA. however, the word "personalization" suggests a lot more than that scope.
15:25:08 <sharon> q?
15:25:17 <sharon> ack LisaSeemanKest
15:25:27 <mike_beganyi> janina: I don't see a problem other than finding another word instead of "personalization" which isn't worthwhile
15:26:06 <JF> +1
15:26:12 <janina> q+
15:26:59 <sharon> ack janina
15:27:15 <JF> -1
15:27:26 <mike_beganyi> LisaSeemanKest: you want to include COGA's concerns re: metadata and implementation. limiting the scope and strong concensus is required
15:27:33 <janina> -1
15:28:00 <mike_beganyi> janina: do we need a poll? plus one for having semantics to the left of the colon in titles, and minus one to not have that
15:28:53 <mike_beganyi> JF: we're struggling with the definition of semantics. right now, attributes that apply metadata. intent to enhance the semantics of the element. when I say semantics I mean the meaning of meaning. this is a link to help. what does that mean? what does help mean?
15:29:07 <janina> I'm not hearing the question answered?
15:29:07 <mike_beganyi> JF: have machines know what help is when users will engage with that link
15:29:55 <mike_beganyi> JF: not the same as using fixed taxonomy terms we have for other attributes
15:30:07 <LisaSeemanKest> are triger terms semantics?
15:30:38 <Lionel_Wolberger> q?
15:30:56 <mike_beganyi> sharon: do we need semantics in the title, and question two, what do we define as the titles for modules 2 and 3
15:31:26 <JF> adding semantics to elements via metadata
15:31:33 <mike_beganyi> Lionel_Wolberger: I would like to continue what JF started. I like adding semantics to elements that causes them to be machine-readable
15:32:21 <JF> "Programmatic Personalization"?
15:32:24 <mike_beganyi> Lionel_Wolberger: the word "personalization" doesn't sit well as it can be misinterpreted. when I think about "personalization semantics" because a lot of semantics we are adding assistance as we understand it. maybe pull out a definition of "personalization"
15:33:35 <mike_beganyi> Lionel_Wolberger: enabling websites for a particular set of ability. that's what personalization means to us. just discussion, not about decisions. "personalization semantics"
15:33:58 <Matthew_Atkinson> q+
15:34:17 <Lionel_Wolberger> Lionel says to Lisa, Adaptive does kind of work
15:34:22 <mike_beganyi> LisaSeemanKest: "Personalization: Adaptive Content Module" as a title? [considering word "Adaptive"]
15:34:31 <sharon> ack Matthew_Atkinson
15:34:54 <Lionel_Wolberger> Lionel shares that the interwebs have this "Adaptive content is a content strategy technique designed to support meaningful, personalized interactions across all channels. "
15:35:24 <mike_beganyi> Matthew_Atkinson: in favour of scheme. I understand the confusion regarding personas. semantics is a big deal for us. proponent of adaptations in AT.
15:36:52 <mike_beganyi> Matthew_Atkinson: not sure we can agree any further than we have already. how would we make progress on the titling?
15:36:53 <janina> q+
15:37:13 <sharon> ack janina
15:37:37 <mike_beganyi> janina: my point is that whatever is left of the colon. whatever we do that's what's going to remain consistent. after the colon is particular to the content
15:37:54 <CharlesL> Personalization Adaptation: Content Module vs. Personalization Semantics: Content Module vs. Personalization: Content Module
15:38:26 <mike_beganyi> Lionel_Wolberger: straw poll: +1 if you can live with Personalization Semantics: as a prefix
15:38:40 <mike_beganyi> Lionel_Wolberger: will type exact considerations
15:38:47 <Lionel_Wolberger> +1 if you can live with "Personalization Semantics" as the two words before the colon
15:38:52 <LisaSeemanKest> -1
15:38:58 <JF> +.75
15:39:17 <becky> 0
15:39:27 <Lionel_Wolberger> +1 if you can PREFER with "Personalization Semantics" as the two words before the colon
15:39:28 <mike_beganyi> Lionel_Wolberger: restarting straw poll
15:39:33 <janina> -1
15:39:35 <JF> +.75
15:39:35 <Lionel_Wolberger> +1
15:39:39 <sharon> -1
15:39:39 <CharlesL> 0
15:39:39 <becky> -1
15:39:50 <Matthew_Atkinson> +0.25
15:39:58 <mike_beganyi> =1
15:40:00 <mike_beganyi> +1*
15:40:03 <mike_beganyi> OOPS
15:40:16 <LisaSeemanKest> -1
15:40:41 <mike_beganyi> Lionel_Wolberger: more discussion is needed based on results
15:41:33 <janina> I was going to suggest exactly as Charles has
15:41:46 <janina> q+
15:42:52 <mike_beganyi> CharlesL: adaptation, semantics, or nothing? I don't have a huge preference. I like adaptive slightly more than semantics. adaptation is more ubiquitous. semantics has been loaded as a term and includes some things and doesn't
15:43:08 <Matthew_Atkinson> q+
15:43:11 <sharon> ack janina
15:43:13 <Lionel_Wolberger> q+
15:43:33 <becky>  Personalized Adaptation:  <module name> or Adaptation: <module name>
15:44:03 <sharon> q?
15:44:23 <mike_beganyi> janina: I strongly like using "adaptation" to the left of the colon. it really does vary strongly and pull it back into the realm of accessibility. whatever the technical means that achieves it, the point is to interact with the content. accessibility working for the minority of users
15:44:44 <sharon> ack Matthew_Atkinson
15:45:46 <becky> q+
15:46:20 <sharon> ack Lionel_Wolberger
15:46:30 <mike_beganyi> Matthew_Atkinson: would go a bit further to say that the end goal wouldn't lock us into a particular outcome. I also think that the scope is so wide that adaptations is more substantive
15:47:02 <sharon> ack becky
15:47:08 <mike_beganyi> Lionel_Wolberger: adaptation is a well-known word and could move personalization into the realm of abilities.
15:47:37 <janina> +1 to Becky's grammar cleanup
15:47:40 <Lionel_Wolberger> hmmmm.... Personalized Adaptation
15:48:00 <mike_beganyi> becky: personalized adaptation or solely adaptation
15:48:38 <Matthew_Atkinson> +1 that "Personalized Adaptation" has a better ring to it, and is still conveying what we're doing. Musing on it.
15:48:51 <Lionel_Wolberger> +1 "Personalized Adaptation is what this markup is for"
15:48:53 <CharlesL> Personal Adaptation:?
15:49:07 <sharon> q?
15:49:29 <mike_beganyi> JF: end of day it's about personalizing or adapting experience
15:50:22 <Lionel_Wolberger> +1 when naming things, it helps to keep the goal in mind (e.g., a mission statement)
15:51:11 <Lionel_Wolberger> +1 "Making content adaptable to the market of 'one'"
15:51:17 <mike_beganyi> LisaSeemanKest: one of the challenges will be education about what this is for. getting what it is for across is utmost.
15:51:36 <Matthew_Atkinson> q+
15:51:52 <LisaSeemanKest> enabling the user
15:52:18 <Lionel_Wolberger> Lionel likes taking off suffixes, so Personal is more friendly than Personalization
15:52:25 <sharon> ack Matthew_Atkinson
15:52:57 <mike_beganyi> Matthew_Atkinson: also noted Charles' recommendation of "Personal Adaptation". might misconstrue meaning.
15:53:30 <LisaSeemanKest> enabling adaptaion?
15:53:47 <mike_beganyi> sharon: straw poll on "Personalized Adaptation:"
15:55:00 <Lionel_Wolberger> PEAS - Personalization Enabling Adaptation Semantics
15:55:48 <LisaSeemanKest> i need to step away
15:55:59 <LisaSeemanKest> thanks guys
15:56:41 <mike_beganyi> JF: a collaborative space to make suggestions for titling
15:56:58 <mike_beganyi> JF: lots of ideas here and good to have a record and consider
15:57:13 <mike_beganyi> janina: why not a wiki?
15:58:22 <Matthew_Atkinson> +1 to collaborative decision-making approach via wiki (and we could use a W3C survey for the decision)
15:58:42 <mike_beganyi> janina: we have to finish this conversation before moving to next item in this agenda
15:59:22 <mike_beganyi> RSSAgent make minutes
15:59:58 <mike_beganyi> RRSAgent make minutes
16:01:27 <mike_beganyi> *RRSAgent make minutes
16:19:40 <mike_beganyi> RRSAgent, generate minutes
16:19:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/24-personalization-minutes.html mike_beganyi
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