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16:47:36 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/01/20-silver-conf-irc
16:47:55 <janina> Meeting: Silver Conformance Options Subgroup
16:48:02 <janina> Date: 20 Jan 2021
16:48:07 <janina> Chair: janina
16:48:14 <janina> rrsagent, make log public
16:48:17 <janina> agenda?
16:48:19 <janina> Agenda+ Agenda Review & Administrative Items
16:48:19 <janina> agenda+ WBS https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/94845/conf-3rd_party/
16:48:19 <janina> agenda+ Other Business
16:48:19 <janina> agenda+ Be Done
16:48:32 <janina>  rrsagent, make minutes
16:48:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/20-silver-conf-minutes.html janina
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16:51:34 <janina> present+
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17:01:19 <shadi> present+
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17:02:49 <DarrylLehmann> present+
17:04:44 <DarrylLehmann> scribe: DarrylLehmann
17:04:57 <PeterKorn> present+
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17:05:37 <jeanne> present+
17:05:44 <GreggVan> present+
17:05:51 <janina> zakim, next item
17:05:51 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Agenda Review & Administrative Items -- taken up [from janina]
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17:06:34 <JF> Present+
17:06:47 <JF> Q+
17:07:00 <JF> agenda?
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17:07:29 <DarrylLehmann> janina: reached out to Judy to discuss compliance
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17:08:03 <ToddL> present+
17:08:03 <DarrylLehmann> janina: Shadi has updated the use case document to incorporate discussion points
17:08:09 <janina> ack jf
17:08:40 <DarrylLehmann> JF: (admin note) migrating IRC channels for sub groups
17:10:00 <DarrylLehmann> janina: will look into sub group channel change.
17:10:10 <janina> zakim, next item
17:10:10 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- WBS https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/94845/conf-3rd_party/ -- taken up [from janina]
17:10:29 <shadi> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/silver/wiki/Substantial_Conformance/Example_Scenarios
17:11:19 <DarrylLehmann> Shadi: Updated intro to substantial conformance to clarify the goals
17:13:13 <janina> q?
17:13:52 <DarrylLehmann> Shadi: Changes to first section, museum sample more relevant (not archived material), sharpen the examples
17:15:20 <DarrylLehmann> Shadi: New example 1.2 added, training company. Needs a lot of material added to be inclusive
17:15:36 <GreggVan_> q+
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17:16:20 <PeterKorn> q+
17:17:27 <DarrylLehmann> shadi: seperated out technical standard from examples scenarios from policy suggestions
17:18:21 <janina> ack g
17:19:09 <DarrylLehmann> GreggVan_: caution about shifting the bar higher due to our current exploration
17:19:33 <jeanne> q+ to say that I like this very much and think the comments of how the accessibility is being improved without having all the content being accessible.
17:20:36 <DarrylLehmann> GreggVan_: the examples focus on industry, rather than problematic use cases of those industries.
17:21:57 <DarrylLehmann> GreggVan_: specifically, what issues exist. Does a museum hold back galleries of images as a result of non conformance
17:22:51 <DarrylLehmann> GreggVan_: are there use cases where art perhaps doesn't require alt description
17:24:21 <jeanne> s/require alt description/require extended description
17:26:40 <DarrylLehmann> PeterKorn: we should state what is required. examples scenarios offer suggestions to policy.
17:27:47 <janina> ack pet
17:27:59 <janina> ack jea
17:27:59 <Zakim> jeanne, you wanted to say that I like this very much and think the comments of how the accessibility is being improved without having all the content being accessible.
17:28:12 <DarrylLehmann> PeterKorn: caution around looking into educational material.
17:28:12 <GreggVan_> q+
17:29:51 <DarrylLehmann> jeanne: likes the examples of industry having problems meeting particular challenges with building inclusive content. gives us opportunity to offer guidance. can we clearly define what needs to be done to be accessible while not conforming necessarily to spec
17:30:00 <janina> q+
17:30:17 <GreggVan_> Q+ to say  "yes thanks Peter.   I meant to add the bit about policy too.      it would be    1) example   2)  what is required   3) what might be required (in standard)  4) other things that can be done  and  5) what is policy and not standard  (e.g phased conformance)  or   must do alt text and then
17:30:45 <DarrylLehmann> GreggVan_: yes thanks Peter.   I meant to add the bit about policy too.      it would be    1) example   2)  what is required   3) what might be required (in standard)  4) other things that can be done  and  5) what is policy and not standard  (e.g phased conformance)  or   must do alt text and then
17:31:46 <jeanne> I think that it is important to show the best practices because otherwise, AGWG is going to reject it because they don't understand that we are trying to raise the bar in exchange for conformance for inaccessible content.
17:33:37 <DarrylLehmann> janina: Agree with jeanne about examples being useful. Offer more examples that are radically different. The art description question is interesting one.
17:34:33 <DarrylLehmann> janina: offering examples of the Dead Sea scrolls being made accessible, challenges to audio descriptions of a symphony
17:34:55 <janina> ack ja
17:36:06 <shadi> ack gregg
17:36:06 <Zakim> GreggVan_, you wanted to say  "yes thanks Peter.   I meant to add the bit about policy too.      it would be    1) example   2)  what is required   3) what might be required (in
17:36:09 <Zakim> ... standard)  4) other things that can be done  and  5) what is policy and not standard  (e.g phased conformance)  or   must do alt text and then
17:36:57 <DarrylLehmann> shadi: agree with GreggVan_ regarding complexity, while seeing the value in these scenario's at exploring our direction
17:37:33 <jeanne> q+ to talk about format
17:37:53 <PeterKorn> q+
17:37:54 <DarrylLehmann> shadi: would like clarification on example format
17:38:05 <janina> ack jeanne
17:38:05 <Zakim> jeanne, you wanted to talk about format
17:38:46 <shadi> 1+ to not trying to give exemptions
17:39:11 <JF> Q+
17:39:14 <GreggVan_> q+
17:39:16 <PeterKorn> q-
17:39:27 <PeterKorn> Jeanne is covering my points well.
17:39:49 <DarrylLehmann> jeanne: likes the format for exploration. Plus, helps us persuade the AGWG that we are not trying to provide exemptions. Helps identify the problems seen by content creators
17:39:59 <PeterKorn> I don't think we need to use this document just now to get into what additional requirements we think should be in WCAG 3 in THIS document NOW.
17:40:17 <DarrylLehmann> +1
17:40:51 <PeterKorn> q+
17:40:59 <shadi> ack jf
17:41:01 <janina> q+
17:41:43 <DarrylLehmann> JF: agree with jeanne for the most part. However, we are offering exemptions with some guidance. Careful with how we present this.
17:41:52 <shadi> ack gregg
17:42:34 <PeterKorn> q-
17:43:01 <DarrylLehmann> GreggVan_: when discussing exemptions, what requirements are we talking about, does it make the content accessible or not. Does every item need an extended description.
17:46:11 <DarrylLehmann> janina: Any way of organizing the examples will inevitably leave some gaps.
17:47:20 <DarrylLehmann> shadi: feels that the majority are ok with the format, suggestions to changes are welcome
17:47:45 <janina> q?
17:47:48 <janina> ack ja
17:48:00 <PeterKorn> No strong opinion either way
17:48:07 <DarrylLehmann> shadi: idea of dropping 1.1 Museum example?
17:48:54 <JF> Q+
17:49:37 <DarrylLehmann> janina: do we instead add more divergent examples to balance?
17:50:29 <janina> ack ja
17:51:05 <DarrylLehmann> shadi: please do send more examples with group concensus
17:51:09 <janina> ack jf
17:51:28 <jeanne> I have a real-life example of a museum that I consulted with a couple years ago.
17:51:42 <jeanne> I will write it up for Shadi.
17:51:58 <shadi> thanks!
17:52:00 <DarrylLehmann> JF: would like 1.1 kept in. beyond the specific naunce, the example offers an issue to volume of content.
17:52:08 <DarrylLehmann> +1 JF
17:53:01 <jeanne> +1 to JF, the purpose of example 1 is the volume of material
17:53:28 <DarrylLehmann> JF: question of volume, time+resources. example offered of notice to users to request an expedited conformance
17:53:38 <jeanne> q+ to suggest that we add that to the title of each example
17:54:23 <janina> q?
17:54:42 <DarrylLehmann> shadi: please send suggestions for further examples
17:55:12 <DarrylLehmann> jeanne: Adding heading detail to describe what issue the example infers
17:55:12 <JF> +1 to Jeanne minus "new" - it could apply to legacy content too
17:55:29 <jeanne> I agree with JF
17:56:32 <DarrylLehmann> shadi: inquiry into group's review of the updated examples
17:56:46 <GreggVan_> q+  to say  "suggest we not use  "full accessibility"    1) there is never full accessibility     2) it implies that it is required by WCAG  -- if we are talking about things beyond  WCAG requirements
17:56:50 <PeterKorn> +1 for moving on to next parts of doc.
17:57:23 <DarrylLehmann> janina: let's progress on the example set and revisit as we discover new strategies
17:57:25 <ToddL> +1 to moving forward to next part of doc as well.
17:57:56 <jeanne> ack je
17:57:56 <Zakim> jeanne, you wanted to suggest that we add that to the title of each example
17:58:21 <DarrylLehmann> shadi: please take a look at discussion tab on examples.
17:58:36 <DarrylLehmann> GreggVan_: "suggest we not use  "full accessibility"    1) there is never full accessibility     2) it implies that it is required by WCAG  -- if we are talking about things beyond  WCAG requirements
18:00:10 <shadi> Please chime in the comments on the discussion tab: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/silver/wiki/Talk:Substantial_Conformance/Example_Scenarios
18:01:00 <maryjom> present+
18:01:04 <ToddL> Thanks all.
18:01:33 <JF> Bye all!
18:02:12 <DarrylLehmann> zakim bye
18:02:46 <DarrylLehmann> rrsagent, make minutes
18:02:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/20-silver-conf-minutes.html DarrylLehmann
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