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13:46:10 <trackbot> Meeting: Accessible Platform Architectures Working Group Teleconference
13:46:10 <trackbot> Date: 19 January 2022
13:46:40 <jasonjgw> chair: jasonjgw
13:46:44 <jasonjgw> present+
13:46:48 <jasonjgw> agenda+ Inaccessibility of CAPTCHA.
13:46:48 <jasonjgw> agenda+ Synchronization Accessibility User Requirements.
13:46:48 <jasonjgw> agenda+ Natural Language Interface Accessibility User Requirements.
13:46:48 <jasonjgw> agenda+ Accessibility of Remote Meetings.
13:47:02 <jasonjgw> agenda+ Miscellaneous topics.
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13:54:02 <jasonjgw> zakim, list agenda
13:54:02 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda:
13:54:03 <Zakim> 1. Inaccessibility of CAPTCHA. [from jasonjgw]
13:54:03 <Zakim> 2. Synchronization Accessibility User Requirements. [from jasonjgw]
13:54:03 <Zakim> 3. Natural Language Interface Accessibility User Requirements. [from jasonjgw]
13:54:03 <Zakim> 4. Accessibility of Remote Meetings. [from jasonjgw]
13:54:03 <Zakim> 5. Miscellaneous topics. [from jasonjgw]
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14:00:19 <SteveNoble> SteveNoble has joined #rqtf
14:00:29 <SteveNoble> present+
14:01:10 <janina> janina has joined #rqtf
14:01:19 <janina> present+
14:01:33 <scott_h> present+
14:01:44 <jasonjgw> zakim, next item
14:01:44 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Inaccessibility of CAPTCHA. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]
14:01:57 <Joshue108> present+
14:02:01 <Joshue108> scribe: Joshue108
14:02:16 <Joshue108> JW: There have been developments on CAPTCHA
14:02:38 <Joshue108> Issue raised on Github around trust tokens - a la Privacy Pass
14:03:06 <Joshue108> The issue suggests the trust token proposal may help with CAPTCHA use cases
14:03:35 <Joshue108> Its not clear how far this work has progressed in W3C but looks interesting..
14:04:26 <Joshue108> JS: /me do we have a number for this issue?
14:05:00 <SteveNoble> https://github.com/w3c/captcha-accessibility/issues/16
14:05:21 <Joshue108> JW: The idea is that the token can attest to user authenticity
14:05:28 <Joshue108> They are privacy preserving etc
14:05:53 <Joshue108> <Jason gives background>
14:06:03 <Joshue108> q?
14:06:31 <Joshue108> JW: Is that right? If so we have questions around how we may incorporate this into our work
14:06:33 <Joshue108> q?
14:07:17 <Joshue108> JOC: I think we need Janina as there is a new scope for CAPTCHA work, relating to automation
14:07:35 <Joshue108> JW: Yes, that's right. This relates to form submissions also
14:07:56 <Joshue108> We will need to revise and update the section on privacy pass and work with the trust tokens proposal etc
14:07:59 <Joshue108> q?
14:08:33 <Joshue108> JW: Any other comments?
14:08:53 <Joshue108> SN: I'm also wondering if Janina would have something to say..
14:09:20 <Joshue108> JW: It will involve APA to negotiate with other group
14:09:49 <jasonjgw> zakim, next item
14:09:49 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Synchronization Accessibility User Requirements. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]
14:10:08 <Joshue108> JW: Lets do this one until Janina comes back
14:10:23 <Joshue108> Steve has been working on this, seems to be heading towards a resolution.
14:10:26 <SteveNoble> https://github.com/w3c/apa/issues/248
14:10:46 <Joshue108> SN: Yes, I've been working on this with Nigel
14:10:46 <Joshue108> SAUR Subtitle/Caption synchronisation #248
14:10:59 <Joshue108> Nigel seems to be happy with this new iteration.
14:11:12 <Joshue108> SN: I just need to update
14:11:27 <Joshue108> Looks good to go
14:11:42 <SteveNoble> https://github.com/w3c/apa/issues/247
14:11:48 <Joshue108> s/I just need to update/I just need to update a branch and make a PR
14:12:10 <Joshue108> We also have this issue SAUR subtitle rate summary #247
14:12:34 <Joshue108> Comment from James Sanford, I've corrected the language and will also put that into Github.
14:13:05 <Joshue108> SN: I'm still working on this
14:13:52 <Joshue108> He seems to be saying there are commonalities but some of the user needs may not be explicitly a11y related
14:14:42 <Joshue108> Raja: Touching on the subtitles issue, there have been some differences between translation subs, and subtitles for the deaf and hard of hearing
14:15:02 <Joshue108> SDH - one diff is that you add environmental information that is in parenthesis
14:15:15 <Joshue108> Like (ringtone)..
14:15:54 <Joshue108> So currently with auto speech recognition, it could be close to the word popping up very shortly after being spoken
14:16:31 <Joshue108> but for translation, it is more 'sentence by sentence' synchronisation and not 'word by word'
14:16:50 <Joshue108> JW: Steve does that help?
14:16:59 <janina> q+
14:17:33 <Joshue108> Potentially greater latency issues in the translation case
14:17:52 <Joshue108> SN: Yes, its the same case with Sign language translation - also not 'word for word'
14:18:33 <Joshue108> ack janina
14:19:10 <Joshue108> JS: I think we need to be clear that SAUR is primarily aimed at pre recorded media where we dont have these real time issues
14:19:32 <Joshue108> The note in intro could clarify - even point to Remote Meetings document
14:19:44 <Joshue108> JW: Well we are treating them both, distinctly.
14:19:47 <Joshue108> q?
14:20:00 <Joshue108> SN: There is no current pointer to remote meetings - we could add this.
14:20:31 <Joshue108> Additional language at the top would be useful
14:20:34 <Joshue108> Raja: +1
14:21:13 <Joshue108> JS: We could get max uptake by keeping the guidance clear. We want to hammer home our research based reasons to pay attention to synchronisation
14:21:57 <Joshue108> Raja: I completely understand that distinction - with real time, SDH - we need more information provided, spoken, environmental, lyrics etc
14:22:19 <Joshue108> With translation or regular sync, lyrics are not included so if we move towards SDH, they need to be included.
14:22:49 <Joshue108> But it doesn't matter what kind of subtitles you have or the time but we still need environmental aspects etc
14:23:05 <Joshue108> SDH = Subtitled for the Deaf and Hard of Hearing
14:23:11 <Joshue108> SN: Thanks Raja
14:23:45 <Joshue108> JW: Steve can you look at this, and make changes to resolve?
14:23:49 <Joshue108> SN: yes
14:24:12 <Joshue108> JS: Did we resolve Nigel's issue?
14:24:20 <Joshue108> SN: We have worked it, and it is ready to go.
14:24:44 <Joshue108> JS: I can start conversation around joint publishing shortly
14:26:29 <Joshue108> <Discussion on co-ordination on CAPTCHA doc>
14:26:58 <Joshue108> SH: Regarding remote meetings, we did reference RTC but dont think we have ref to remote meetings in SAUR.
14:27:11 <Joshue108> We should make sure it is referenced correctly
14:27:34 <jasonjgw> zakim, next item
14:27:34 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Natural Language Interface Accessibility User Requirements. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]
14:28:16 <Joshue108> JOC: Here are the NAUR related issues https://github.com/w3c/apa/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3Anaur+
14:28:46 <SteveNoble> Joshue108: Lots of new comments from COGA
14:30:20 <janina> q+
14:30:32 <SteveNoble> jasonjgw: If some of these issues are already covered by WAI guidelines than we can point there and not focus so much here
14:31:19 <Joshue108> [COGA] - we know its related to this tranche
14:31:52 <SteveNoble> janina: Wondering about the word "natural"
14:32:26 <SteveNoble> janina: We may need to think about this and add a note in the introduction
14:33:26 <SteveNoble> janina: Problem with just thinking of natural as a spoken language
14:34:08 <SteveNoble> janina: Are we including sign language?
14:34:34 <SteveNoble> jasonjgw: I'll open an issue to bring this up
14:34:48 <Joshue108> [COGA] 2.6.6 Using Multimodal Interfaces to Enhance Understanding
14:35:02 <Joshue108> https://github.com/w3c/apa/issues/281
14:35:45 <janina> +1 to Josh's approach
14:35:52 <SteveNoble> Joshue108: There may be multiple points which were merged into issues
14:36:35 <Joshue108> Here is the user need 26 https://www.w3.org/TR/naur/#using-multimodal-interfaces-to-enhance-understanding
14:39:01 <SteveNoble> jasonjgw: Editorial change of wording is fine
14:40:13 <SteveNoble> jasonjgw: User needs 27
14:40:47 <SteveNoble> Joshue108: Comment about additional requirement to include icons
14:41:39 <SteveNoble> janina: A known fact, but we don't have technology for integrating AAC
14:42:59 <SteveNoble> scott_h: Things like mapping technologies that use familiar logos
14:43:37 <SteveNoble> Joshue108: Symbol sets can be very individualized
14:44:34 <SteveNoble> scott_h: If the symbol set were introduced we might lose the storefront
14:45:11 <Joshue108> JOC: Thanks Scott interesting points
14:45:22 <SteveNoble> jasonjgw: Not sure if the icon reference was specific to AAC
14:45:51 <SteveNoble> Joshue108: The comment was more about familiar icons
14:46:36 <SteveNoble> janina: We could say that some relate to symbol sets and some to brand icons
14:47:15 <SteveNoble> jasonjgw: Problem with "familiar" is that depends upon the individual
14:47:54 <SteveNoble> Joshue108: "brand related opportunities"
14:48:43 <SteveNoble> user need 27
14:49:20 <SteveNoble> janina: This one needs clarification
14:49:45 <Joshue108> [COGA] 2.6.3 Communicating in Language that is Clear, Simple, and Appropriate to the Audience #280
14:49:53 <Joshue108> https://github.com/w3c/apa/issues/280
14:50:21 <Joshue108> Relates to this in the NAUR https://www.w3.org/TR/naur/#communicating-in-language-that-is-clear-simple-and-appropriate-to-the-audience
14:51:55 <SteveNoble> Joshue108: Included several points...all seem generally appropriate
14:52:36 <SteveNoble> Joshue108: Many are just editorial things
14:54:18 <SteveNoble> janina: Highly technical issues cannot easily be simplified
14:55:23 <SteveNoble> In many cases using specific technical language is important to properly communicating what the author is stating
14:56:20 <SteveNoble> Joshue108: user need about dyscalculia
14:57:57 <SteveNoble> janina: That becomes a very personalized issue
14:58:36 <SteveNoble> jasonjgw: Circle back to more of these next week
14:59:04 <jasonjgw> zakim, next item
14:59:04 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, jasonjgw
14:59:24 <Joshue108> q?
14:59:26 <Joshue108> ack jan
14:59:34 <jasonjgw> zakim, next item
14:59:34 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Accessibility of Remote Meetings. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]
15:00:05 <Joshue108> SH: Thanks for GH help recently (from Josh)
15:00:15 <Joshue108> I feel better at Git :-)
15:00:15 <SteveNoble> scott_h: Thanks to Josh for helping with the GitHub logistics
15:00:41 <Joshue108> s/SH: Thanks for GH help recently (from Josh)/
15:01:00 <jasonjgw> zakim, next item
15:01:00 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Miscellaneous topics. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]
15:01:57 <Joshue108> JS: APA call rescheduling
15:02:04 <Joshue108> scribe: SteveN
15:02:07 <jasonjgw> zakim, bye
15:02:07 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been jasonjgw, SteveNoble, janina, scott_h, Joshue
15:02:07 <Zakim> Zakim has left #rqtf
15:02:10 <jasonjgw> rrsagent, amke minutes
15:02:10 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'amke minutes', jasonjgw.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
15:02:22 <jasonjgw> rrsagent, make minutes
15:02:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/19-rqtf-minutes.html jasonjgw
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