IRC log of silver on 2022-01-14

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:34:08 [RRSAgent]
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14:34:08 [RRSAgent]
logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/01/14-silver-irc
14:34:10 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:34:12 [Zakim]
Meeting: Silver Task Force & Community Group
14:34:24 [Lauriat]
agenda+ Accessibility for Children preliminary functional needs
14:34:28 [Lauriat]
agenda+ give feedback to Test Reliability on announcing change of natural language
14:34:28 [Lauriat]
agenda+ integrating ATAG and UAAG into WCAG3
14:45:28 [Maud]
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14:52:04 [janina]
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14:57:39 [SuzanneTaylor]
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14:58:46 [jeanne]
topic: Scribe List
14:59:04 [Lauriat]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/silver/wiki/Scribe_List
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14:59:06 [janina]
present+
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14:59:20 [jeanne]
present+
14:59:30 [Lauriat]
Present+
14:59:35 [shadi]
present+
14:59:46 [Wilco]
present+
15:00:37 [jenniferS_]
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15:00:37 [Chuck]
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15:00:39 [jenniferS_]
present+
15:00:44 [SuzanneTaylor]
present+
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15:01:14 [MichaelC]
present+
15:01:16 [JF]
Present+
15:01:17 [ToddL]
present+
15:01:31 [jeanne]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/silver/wiki/Scribe_List
15:01:37 [sarahhorton]
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15:01:42 [sarahhorton]
present+
15:01:47 [sarahhorton]
I can scribe
15:01:55 [Rachael]
present+
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15:02:52 [sarahhorton]
scribe: sarahhorton
15:02:54 [Makoto]
present+
15:03:25 [sarahhorton]
zakim, take up item 1
15:03:25 [Zakim]
agendum 1 -- Accessibility for Children preliminary functional needs -- taken up [from Lauriat]
15:04:07 [Azlan]
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15:04:07 [sarahhorton]
SuzanneTaylor: Maude is co-chair of community group
15:04:27 [kirkwood]
present+
15:04:29 [Azlan]
present+
15:04:34 [sarahhorton]
jeanne: Accessibility for Children community group, Suzanne liaison, accessibility needs for children
15:04:55 [sarahhorton]
SuzanneTaylor: Maude Sternet (sp?) founded group
15:05:31 [sarahhorton]
...getting CG more active, contribute to WCAG 2 and other standards
15:05:53 [sarahhorton]
...working on user needs, thanks Jeanne
15:06:15 [sarahhorton]
...get feedback on functional needs based on accessibility for children research
15:06:31 [sarahhorton]
Maud: Google docs presentation
15:06:36 [Maud]
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/12soj2a8-QvySeXmVI7J4b_cpiLpB-0RU/edit#slide=id.p1
15:07:05 [Lauriat]
Possible to open access to anyone with the link?
15:07:20 [Lauriat]
(getting access denied when I try to open the link)
15:07:27 [sarahhorton]
Maud: Children have different profiles from adults, different rhythms, need instant feedback
15:07:42 [sarahhorton]
...less predictable, evolving competencies
15:07:44 [jenniferS_]
Will you please share your screen, so we don't have to miss due to access issues?
15:07:46 [SuzanneTaylor]
should be fixed now @Lauriat
15:07:58 [sarahhorton]
...research gap, disabled children as online users
15:07:59 [jenniferS_]
I can't open where I work — due to rules.
15:08:18 [sarahhorton]
...have teens, education, wanted also for younger
15:08:22 [Lauriat]
Fixed, thank you!
15:08:30 [sarahhorton]
...age appropriate features
15:08:50 [sarahhorton]
...reason why created group, also started working on methodology, evidence-based, work with users
15:09:05 [jenniferS_]
* seeing the slides would be helpful
15:09:20 [sarahhorton]
...define new concepts, common language/understanding
15:10:34 [sarahhorton]
...sharing screen, reviewing slides
15:11:20 [sarahhorton]
...communicate about work at conferences
15:12:14 [sarahhorton]
...provide accommodation, sponsoring sign language interpreter, include children
15:13:02 [sarahhorton]
...review goals 2021, 2022,
15:13:19 [sarahhorton]
...functional needs for children with disabilities
15:13:43 [sarahhorton]
...lit review, is there existing research, identify remaining questions, advocate for more
15:14:17 [sarahhorton]
...document work in notes, create list of considerations for spec writers to use
15:14:55 [Lauriat]
qv?
15:15:12 [sarahhorton]
SuzanneTaylor: Document with initial notes on functional needs
15:15:13 [SuzanneTaylor]
https://docs.google.com/document/d/14rnfFNVcagTra4pj2940mjRwP6krbjGlZG9mCIC2Y7o/edit?usp=sharing
15:15:29 [sarahhorton]
...share through zoom?
15:15:53 [sarahhorton]
...steps on how to write categories, found many reasons why children might have different needs
15:16:03 [MichaelC]
q+
15:16:24 [MichaelC]
q+ to say would like review in functional needs subgroup
15:16:24 [sarahhorton]
...looking at WCAG 3 functional needs, decided to write up as functional needs
15:17:25 [sarahhorton]
...took 2 categories, pull activity back and explore user needs
15:18:06 [sarahhorton]
...e.g., braille experience, if student using that and others using game, braille student might miss out
15:18:25 [sarahhorton]
...looked at functional needs and tried to frame categories same way
15:19:01 [sarahhorton]
...looked at stories, experiences with products/students, made progress, students given multiple ways to access materials
15:19:15 [sarahhorton]
...students struggling with choosing
15:19:57 [sarahhorton]
...e.g., math image, tactile, text description, meets different needs, problem is choosing
15:20:23 [sarahhorton]
...users need balance between agency and guidance
15:20:51 [MichaelC]
ack me
15:20:51 [Zakim]
MichaelC, you wanted to say would like review in functional needs subgroup
15:20:57 [sarahhorton]
...do these seem helpful as functional needs to get children's needs into WCAG 3
15:21:23 [sarahhorton]
MichaelC: Look good, helpful, working on structure, would like others in group to review content
15:21:39 [sarahhorton]
...invite to meeting, might have suggestions
15:21:41 [MichaelC]
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1POhgI_xHZtSoNbHFp3r5HYIkl6ePaP8DC5d90SZ1tF4/edit#gid=470134919
15:21:56 [sarahhorton]
...functional needs/users needs mapping, matrix
15:22:11 [sarahhorton]
...interesting to see if they fit
15:22:31 [sarahhorton]
SuzanneTaylor: Should reach out?
15:22:48 [sarahhorton]
MichaelC: Email group, also will raise on call
15:23:01 [MichaelC]
public-a11y-functional-needs@w3.org
15:23:25 [Chuck]
agenda?
15:23:33 [sarahhorton]
s/Maude Sternet (sp?) /Maud Stiernet
15:23:49 [sarahhorton]
SuzanneTaylor: Will continue work, come back in few months
15:24:03 [sarahhorton]
zakim, take up next
15:24:03 [Zakim]
agendum 2 -- give feedback to Test Reliability on announcing change of natural language -- taken up [from Lauriat]
15:24:47 [Makoto]
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15:24:49 [sarahhorton]
Wilco: Test reliability, start applying process to one outcome
15:24:58 [sarahhorton]
...programmatic language, have test rules
15:25:12 [sarahhorton]
...start looking for examples, edge cases
15:25:28 [sarahhorton]
...example of when important, when not
15:26:02 [sarahhorton]
...ran into question, how much needs indication
15:26:32 [sarahhorton]
...talked through examples, seems need isn't strong, more like preference
15:27:01 [sarahhorton]
...isn't ideal for individual words, disruptive
15:27:28 [janina]
q+ Wondering whether to use lang specific TTS should be configurable
15:27:49 [sarahhorton]
...asked people, mailing list, clear examples where words were problem
15:28:10 [sarahhorton]
...didn't find much guidance/research
15:28:16 [shadi]
q+ janina to say Wondering whether to use lang specific TTS should be configurable
15:28:31 [sarahhorton]
...write programmatic language for blocks of text but not every word
15:28:43 [Lauriat]
q+ to offer to see whether I can find some research that Google might have that we can share (thinking Maps)
15:28:46 [sarahhorton]
...indicate for para, not words
15:28:58 [MichaelC]
q+ to ask about the language
15:29:03 [Lauriat]
ack janina
15:29:03 [Zakim]
janina, you wanted to say Wondering whether to use lang specific TTS should be configurable
15:29:25 [MichaelC]
q-
15:29:27 [sarahhorton]
janina: As tts user, agrees switch can be disruptive, prefers something can control as user
15:29:47 [shadi]
q+
15:30:12 [sarahhorton]
Lauriat: Look for google research
15:30:33 [Wilco]
q+
15:30:38 [Wilco]
ack la
15:30:38 [Zakim]
Lauriat, you wanted to offer to see whether I can find some research that Google might have that we can share (thinking Maps)
15:30:41 [sarahhorton]
...with maps, voice changes with place names, might be research
15:31:03 [sarahhorton]
MichaelC: Daily life in bilingual city
15:31:40 [sarahhorton]
shadi: would config support needs, context based, might be different preferences depending on context
15:31:54 [sarahhorton]
janina: Map to something easy to switch
15:32:27 [sarahhorton]
...list of email subjects, leave alone, funny mistakes
15:32:35 [Wilco]
q?
15:32:37 [Wilco]
ack sh
15:32:54 [sarahhorton]
Wilco: Provide examples
15:33:12 [sarahhorton]
...not strong opposition?
15:33:32 [sarahhorton]
janina: Cares a lot about topic
15:33:44 [sarahhorton]
Lauriat: Guide others through how to make decisions
15:35:02 [sarahhorton]
Wilco: Tricky, WCAG 2 based on language, about what tts understands, pronounces, real outcome is correct pronunciation
15:35:27 [sarahhorton]
Lauriat: Would be confusing in some cases to have words pronounced correctly
15:35:40 [sarahhorton]
...correct depends on context
15:35:56 [sarahhorton]
Wilco: Everyone want paragraph
15:36:07 [sarahhorton]
...Fair?
15:36:47 [sarahhorton]
janina: Yes, structures can be problem
15:37:06 [sarahhorton]
Wilco: How to define block, will continue work on it
15:37:46 [sarahhorton]
janina: Mispronunciations that are correct
15:38:31 [Lauriat]
ack Wilco
15:38:33 [sarahhorton]
zakim, take up next
15:38:33 [Zakim]
agendum 3 -- integrating ATAG and UAAG into WCAG3 -- taken up [from Lauriat]
15:38:45 [jeanne]
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MCQG_MIaEyC3nfwkWGoDWS6XQzMykXeC7qOOjj8AG8M/
15:39:16 [sarahhorton]
jeanne: Set up doc to capture issues, discussion questions, info to start working on issue
15:39:48 [sarahhorton]
...used example, good format to share with AGWG
15:40:02 [sarahhorton]
...provides context
15:40:39 [sarahhorton]
...github issue, #503, listed examples
15:41:03 [sarahhorton]
...core questions, how to make clear nature of barrier
15:41:15 [sarahhorton]
...charter non normative, change when recharter
15:41:23 [Lauriat]
Q1: How to make it clear (Issue 503) that when a barrier needs to be addressed to clearly identify if it is user agent or content author responsibility?
15:41:24 [sarahhorton]
...commit to rewriting
15:41:27 [JF]
Q+ to comment on recharter
15:41:31 [Lauriat]
Q2: Our charter states only non-normative guidance for User Agents and Authoring Tools. Does that need to change when we recharter?
15:41:32 [MichaelC]
q+
15:41:38 [Lauriat]
Q3: Are we willing to commit to writing each method to target just one of Content, UA or AT?
15:41:53 [sarahhorton]
...at identifying core questions stage
15:42:07 [MichaelC]
q+ to mention db
15:42:14 [MichaelC]
q+ to mention audiences
15:42:25 [sarahhorton]
...mutiple methods specialized by platform, do we want to do that
15:42:26 [MichaelC]
q+ to say I would like crisp boundaries
15:42:46 [Lauriat]
ack JF
15:42:46 [Zakim]
JF, you wanted to comment on recharter
15:43:10 [sarahhorton]
JF: Q2 re charter, WG doesn't decide, AC will approve/reject, was point of contention last time
15:43:21 [sarahhorton]
...open to looking at it, we don't get to decide
15:43:27 [Lauriat]
ack MichaelC
15:43:27 [Zakim]
MichaelC, you wanted to mention db and to mention audiences and to say I would like crisp boundaries
15:43:38 [sarahhorton]
MichaelC: Would need AC approval, we get to propose
15:43:56 [sarahhorton]
...need clear definition of what accomplishing
15:44:10 [sarahhorton]
...should do if can define
15:44:19 [sarahhorton]
...not confident about timeline, could try
15:44:33 [MichaelC]
ack me
15:44:46 [sarahhorton]
...database with methods, outcomes, tagged
15:45:06 [sarahhorton]
...by technology, could be authoring method, design method, tool method
15:45:32 [sarahhorton]
...propose requiring methods to apply to 1 audience, 1 technology, would help be crisp
15:45:32 [Lauriat]
q+ to ask a clarifying question on the question at hand
15:46:06 [Lauriat]
ack me
15:46:06 [Zakim]
Lauriat, you wanted to ask a clarifying question on the question at hand
15:46:06 [sarahhorton]
Lauriat: Are we trying to answer or come up with more questions
15:46:12 [sarahhorton]
jeanne: Additional core questions
15:46:36 [sarahhorton]
...capturing solutions, too, but looking for issues
15:46:40 [Wilco]
q+
15:47:15 [sarahhorton]
Wilco: Are there parts we should be including?
15:47:26 [sarahhorton]
...useful and relevant things
15:47:33 [janina]
q+
15:47:36 [jeanne]
+1 to splitting it up
15:47:36 [Lauriat]
q+ to propose reframing question 1 slightly
15:47:37 [Wilco]
ack w
15:48:03 [sarahhorton]
janina: Good to pull out good examples, more than informative guidance
15:48:24 [sarahhorton]
...what need to add normative guidance
15:48:44 [Lauriat]
ack janina
15:48:53 [sarahhorton]
...accessible out of box
15:49:43 [sarahhorton]
Lauriat: Reframe Q1, add part, now suggests either UA or author or tool
15:50:01 [sarahhorton]
...e.g., page language, content language
15:50:33 [sarahhorton]
...Chrome detecting language, expose to AT, authors don't have to do it
15:50:56 [MichaelC]
q+
15:51:06 [sarahhorton]
...solutions through AT or UA and no defining line, lies with one
15:51:31 [sarahhorton]
...works correctly is what matters, method is shared
15:51:32 [jeanne]
q+ to suggest we add Should it be topic based and tied to user needs?
15:51:39 [jeanne]
ack la
15:51:39 [Zakim]
Lauriat, you wanted to propose reframing question 1 slightly
15:52:02 [sarahhorton]
...reframe so it's not "or"
15:52:10 [Lauriat]
ack MichaelC
15:52:32 [sarahhorton]
MichaelC: Division of responsibilities, hard for 1 doc to cover all, could have method groups
15:53:13 [sarahhorton]
...be sure one method is followed, or all methods, some model which to follow/not follow based on role/what's needed
15:53:33 [jeanne]
ack j
15:53:33 [Zakim]
jeanne, you wanted to suggest we add Should it be topic based and tied to user needs?
15:54:01 [sarahhorton]
jeanne: Approach topic-based, tied to user needs?
15:54:46 [sarahhorton]
...start from user needs, look at UA and AT and see ATAG and UAAG, see what applies
15:55:23 [sarahhorton]
Lauriat: Yes, guidance composition starts with users needs, use as source materials
15:55:28 [Lauriat]
q?
15:57:13 [sarahhorton]
jeanne: Yes, relevant guidance, esp in ATAG, 13 ATAG SCs tied to WCAG 2, very close, UAAG not as close
15:57:25 [sarahhorton]
...still lots that's realted
15:57:44 [sarahhorton]
s/realted/related
15:58:51 [sarahhorton]
...look at methods for ATAG and UAAG for WCAG 3, also skim source documents for other issues, red flags
15:59:01 [sarahhorton]
...for next meeting
15:59:47 [sarahhorton]
rrsagent, make minutes
15:59:47 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/14-silver-minutes.html sarahhorton
16:01:05 [sarahhorton]
s/Maud Stiernetfounded/Maud Stiernet founded
16:01:42 [sarahhorton]
rrsagent, make minutes
16:01:42 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/14-silver-minutes.html sarahhorton
16:06:40 [ToddL]
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