15:03:04 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wot-td
15:03:04 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/01/12-wot-td-irc
15:03:16 <kaz> meeting: WoT-WG - TD-TF
15:03:37 <cris> cris has joined #wot-td
15:03:44 <kaz> chair: Sebastian
15:04:21 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Sebastian_Kaebisch, Cristiano_Aguzzi, Daniel_Peintner, Michael_Lagally, Michael_McCool
15:04:36 <kaz> scribenick: kaz
15:05:26 <kaz> present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima
15:05:47 <kaz> agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#Jan_12.2C_2022
15:06:43 <McCool_> q+
15:07:07 <kaz> topic: Discussion about new eventing approach (Michael Lagally)
15:07:45 <kaz> mm: note we should be careful about what to do for this version
15:08:08 <kaz> ml: (starting with Use Cases)
15:08:41 <kaz> -> https://w3c.github.io/wot-usecases/ Use Cases doc
15:08:57 <kaz> ml: many use cases there
15:09:46 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1323 wot-thing-description issue 1323 - Missing event/notification affordance or operation
15:10:41 <McCool_> q?
15:11:07 <kaz> -> https://w3c.github.io/wot-architecture/#thing WoT Architecture - 8.1.1 Things and Consumers
15:11:11 <Ege> q+
15:11:24 <kaz> ml: (describes the components, Things and Consumers)
15:11:32 <sebastian> q+
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15:11:52 <kaz> mm: Consumer is an entity consumes TD
15:12:12 <kaz> ... but there is confusion about the roles
15:12:22 <kaz> ... around clients
15:13:00 <kaz> ... generally try to avoid client vs server
15:13:09 <kaz> ack m
15:13:12 <kaz> ack e
15:13:24 <kaz> ek: don't think there is confusion
15:13:42 <kaz> ... in MQTT, consumers are clients
15:14:12 <kaz> ... in this abstract level described by Architecture, the model is covered by TD
15:14:37 <kaz> ... also intermediary doesn't "consume" the TD
15:14:41 <kaz> q?
15:15:10 <kaz> ... one entity could handle both the roles, though
15:15:23 <cris> +1; this is my understanding too
15:15:46 <kaz> q+
15:16:46 <kaz> mm: we still have issues pointed out by Lagally with HTTP, etc.
15:17:17 <kaz> ml: both Thing and Consumer are Servients
15:17:28 <McCool_> q+
15:18:16 <cris> q+
15:20:23 <kaz> ack s
15:20:31 <mlagally_> mlagally_ has joined #wot-td
15:20:32 <kaz> sk: misunderstanding here
15:20:39 <mlagally_> q?
15:20:47 <kaz> ... Consumer is an entity consuming the TD
15:21:19 <kaz> ... Servient is defined as a software stack which can be used for both Consumer and Thing
15:22:22 <kaz> kaz: agree with Sebastian
15:22:40 <kaz> ... section "8.8 WoT System Components and their Interconnectivity" describes that
15:23:11 <kaz> ... so probably that section should come earlier (than 8.1)
15:23:17 <kaz> ml: right
15:23:19 <kaz> ack k
15:24:06 <kaz> ack mc
15:24:17 <kaz> mc: let's think about webhook
15:24:34 <kaz> ... web services expose webhooks
15:24:44 <kaz> ... do we need to standardize the mechanism?
15:25:23 <Ege> +1 to mmccool
15:25:29 <kaz> ... the prescription should go to the Protocol Bindings and/or Profile
15:25:48 <kaz> s/... the/mm: the/
15:25:54 <kaz> s/mc:/mm:/
15:26:34 <kaz> ml: what if there are 10 different mechanisms?
15:27:09 <kaz> mm: we can put that into Profile
15:27:32 <kaz> q?
15:28:18 <Ege> q+
15:28:55 <kaz> ca: 2 points
15:29:09 <kaz> ... connecting this to practical points
15:29:21 <kaz> ... agree with McCool
15:29:33 <kaz> ... describe protocols exposing the interaction
15:29:48 <kaz> ... within the diagram in issue 1323
15:29:55 <kaz> ... this is basically a subprotocol
15:30:21 <kaz> ... if you're using a subprotocol for webhook
15:30:48 <kaz> ... we can already describe that
15:31:07 <kaz> (Lagally needs to leave)
15:31:16 <kaz> sk: should continue the discussion next time
15:31:53 <kaz> topic: Review PRs based on the feedbacks for the 2nd WD release
15:32:52 <kaz> subtopic: editorial changes
15:33:03 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aopen+label%3AEditorial PRs with "Editorial" label
15:33:25 <kaz> sk: would start with editorial ones
15:34:24 <kaz> ... maybe some of the PRs may need further reviews
15:35:29 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1332 PR 1332 - fix: some HTML markup issues
15:35:34 <kaz> sk: (goes through the diff)
15:35:44 <kaz> mm: some typo there
15:35:51 <kaz> sk: any other comments?
15:36:04 <kaz> (none)
15:36:11 <kaz> merged
15:36:48 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1333 PR 1333 - update abstract
15:37:07 <kaz> sk: (goes through the diff)
15:37:27 <kaz> mm: missing the subject of the sentence
15:38:17 <kaz> sk: (goes through the remaining part)
15:38:44 <kaz> mm: we should be careful
15:39:18 <kaz> ... the original text might be better around "terms from the information model"
15:39:19 <kaz> q?
15:39:23 <kaz> ack cr
15:40:12 <kaz> sk: (add edits)
15:41:39 <kaz> q?
15:41:41 <kaz> q+
15:41:50 <Ege> ack e
15:42:55 <kaz> ack k
15:43:21 <kaz> kaz: just to make sure, the PR adds changes for the namespace in section 5.3 as well. right?
15:43:39 <kaz> sk: yes, strangely that has not been fixed yet
15:43:44 <kaz> ... OK to merge this?
15:44:13 <kaz> (no objections)
15:44:27 <kaz> merged
15:47:43 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1334 PR 1334 - TD Info Model fixes
15:47:56 <kaz> mm: maybe need to add another sentence
15:48:58 <kaz> ... should remove the sentence now and create an issue for that
15:50:01 <kaz> sk: (removes local/global)
15:50:27 <kaz> s/global)/global before "schema")/
15:51:57 <kaz> ... (looks into the td-validatio.ttl too)
15:52:17 <kaz> ... (confirms the namespace change for 1.1)
15:52:39 <kaz> ... (then goes through the remaining changes)
15:52:46 <kaz> ... would propose to merge this PR
15:53:03 <kaz> mm: ok
15:53:32 <kaz> ... let's create another issue as well
15:54:11 <kaz> (McCool needs to leave)
15:55:16 <kaz> merged
15:55:47 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1335 PR 1335 - fix: typos and grammatical errors
15:56:20 <kaz> sk: (goes through the diff)
15:56:30 <kaz> q?
15:56:48 <kaz> dp: some conflicts there
15:57:52 <kaz> sk: (looks into the conflicts)
15:58:02 <kaz> ... (and adds edits)
15:58:14 <kaz> ... (for index.html and index.templte.html
15:58:27 <kaz> s/templte.html/template.html)/
15:58:48 <kaz> sk: any objections for merging this?
15:58:51 <kaz> (none)
15:58:55 <kaz> merged
16:00:01 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1336 PR 1336 - fix: some internal links
16:00:12 <kaz> sk: (goes through the diff)
16:00:19 <kaz> ... (then resolve the conflicts)
16:04:28 <mlagally_> I'm unfortunately pulled into another meeting and cannot rejoin
16:07:05 <kaz> sk: any objections?
16:07:07 <kaz> (none)
16:07:09 <kaz> merged
16:07:33 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1337 PR 1337 - fix: minor singular vs plural issue
16:07:45 <kaz> sk: (looks into the conflicts)
16:09:17 <kaz> merged
16:10:10 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1344 PR 1344 - fix: object definition ref in ObjectSchema
16:10:16 <kaz> sk: (looks into the diff)
16:14:42 <kaz> merged
16:14:50 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:14:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/12-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
16:15:28 <kaz> topic: 3 PRs for 2nd WD
16:15:58 <kaz> s/topic:/subtopic:/
16:16:37 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1283 PR 1283 - update webhooks example #1283
16:16:44 <kaz> s/ #1283//
16:16:52 <kaz> sk: need Lagally's input
16:17:16 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1339 PR 1339 - update assertion td-context-ns-thing-mandatory
16:17:31 <kaz> sk: (goes through the diff)
16:18:28 <kaz> q+
16:21:05 <cris> q+
16:21:44 <kaz> ka
16:21:48 <kaz> s/ka//
16:22:41 <kaz> kaz: wondering about the gray background under the table within section 5.3.1.1
16:22:45 <sebastia_> sebastia_ has joined #wot-td
16:22:53 <kaz> sk: caused by ReSpec maybe?
16:23:06 <kaz> ... it describes assertions
16:23:08 <kaz> kaz: ok
16:23:18 <kaz> ... maybe caused by the assertion tool by McCool
16:23:50 <kaz> ca: title to be extracted from the first object?
16:24:34 <kaz> sk: would not see any problem about that
16:25:04 <kaz> s/McCool/McCool then/
16:25:24 <kaz> ... can be merged then?
16:25:56 <kaz> q+
16:26:30 <kaz> ack k
16:26:31 <kaz> ack c
16:27:03 <kaz> kaz: btw, from the readability viewpoint, it might be better to use bullet points to describe each definition
16:27:15 <kaz> sk: right
16:27:33 <kaz> ... would suggest we improve the style for the next publication
16:27:38 <kaz> kaz: that's fine
16:27:41 <kaz> q?
16:28:22 <kaz> sk: (creates a new issue to improve the style)
16:30:25 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1353 Issue 1353 - structure assertations
16:30:55 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1339 PR 1339 - update assertion td-context-ns-thing-mandatory
16:31:39 <kaz> sk: split an old bigger PR into small ones
16:31:48 <kaz> ... some conflicts there
16:31:56 <kaz> ... (look into the conflicts)
16:34:18 <kaz> ... any objections to merge it?
16:34:21 <kaz> (none)
16:34:22 <kaz> merged
16:34:53 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1340 PR 1340 - Manifest
16:35:10 <kaz> sk: (looks into the diff)
16:37:24 <kaz> ca: looks reasonable
16:38:10 <kaz> dp: my concern is (like Ben) introducing changes not directly related to manifest
16:38:46 <kaz> sk: right
16:38:55 <kaz> ... (adds comments on that issue)
16:39:17 <kaz> ... new PR will be provided with the changes on manifest
16:39:28 <kaz> ... so won't merge this PR itself
16:40:14 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1341 PR 1341 - schema term in expected response
16:40:30 <kaz> sk: (looks into the diff)
16:40:57 <kaz> -> https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/1341/21ce84a...00eef3d.html#expectedresponse 5.3.4.3 ExpectedResponse
16:43:01 <Ege> q+
16:43:34 <kaz> ack e
16:43:45 <cris> q+
16:44:34 <kaz> ek: agree with use cases but making this would make TD complicated
16:44:50 <kaz> ca: complicated to understand what would be output
16:44:52 <kaz> q?
16:44:55 <kaz> ack c
16:45:02 <kaz> ... also difficult to validate the data
16:45:49 <kaz> ... so tend to agree with Ege
16:47:07 <kaz> mjk: more work needed, but seems this is what we want
16:48:16 <kaz> sk: would be OK not to merge this for now?
16:48:35 <kaz> ... need more background before merging this
16:48:40 <kaz> q?
16:48:43 <cris> +1
16:48:44 <kaz> kaz: yes
16:48:58 <kaz> s/yes/yes, we can wait/
16:50:11 <kaz> s/kaz: yes, we can wait//
16:50:20 <kaz> i/+1/kaz: yes, we can wait/
16:50:30 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:50:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/12-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
16:51:14 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
16:51:15 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:51:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/12-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
16:52:57 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1283 PR 1283 (revisited) - update webhooks example
16:53:19 <kaz> sk: Lagally is not here but skim the changes
16:53:25 <kaz> s/skim/would skim/
16:53:33 <kaz> ... (go through the diff)
16:54:51 <kaz> ... Editor's Note is also added
16:55:14 <kaz> ... would be happier to have Lagally here
16:55:57 <kaz> ... but what do you think about this PR?
16:56:06 <kaz> q?
16:56:19 <kaz> ca: your changes are for examples
16:56:23 <kaz> sk: yes
16:56:33 <kaz> ... to make it clear
16:56:51 <kaz> ca: improving the examples is OK
16:57:09 <kaz> ... but we can split the example part and the other part
16:57:23 <kaz> s/for/mainly for/
16:57:34 <kaz> ... anyway, having Lagally would be better
16:58:37 <kaz> sk: this PR is about the examples within the Appendix
16:59:41 <kaz> ... (adds comments)
16:59:46 <kaz> ... OK with merging
17:00:33 <kaz> ... but should improved the example or add another example to show another option about webhook-bsed approach
17:01:27 <kaz> ... see also issue 1323
17:01:47 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1283#issuecomment-1011259925 Sebastian's comments
17:02:24 <kaz> sk: (resolve conflicts)
17:03:17 <kaz> merged
17:03:35 <kaz> sk: then let's continue the discussion on webhooks
17:03:56 <kaz> ... would like to get resolution next Wednesday
17:04:35 <kaz> ... will continue the discussion on new event proposal from Lagally too
17:04:37 <kaz> [adjourned]
17:04:42 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:04:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/12-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
17:18:58 <sebastian> sebastian has joined #wot-td