IRC log of ixml on 2022-01-11

Timestamps are in UTC.

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logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/01/11-ixml-irc
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trackbot, start telcon
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RRSAgent, make logs public
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Meeting: ixml Group Teleconference
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Date: 11 January 2022
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Chair: Steven
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Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ixml/2022Jan/0061
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Present: Norm, John, Dave, Bethan, Steven
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Present+Michael
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Present+Tom
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Topic: Actions
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ACTION (2021-08-005): Tom and MSM to come with a pragma proposal. [Done]
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ACTION (2021-10-001): Steven to draft a mediatypes proposal (see
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15:33:12 [Steven]
https://github.com/invisibleXML/ixml/issues/6).
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ACTION (2021-12-001): Steven to add his tests to github [Done]
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ACTION (2021-12-002): Michael to write test catalog for Steven's
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tests [Done]
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ACTION (2021-12-003): Steven to add strings proposal to spec [Done]
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ACTION (2021-12-004): Steven implement the resolution for issue 19 [Done]
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ACTION (2021-12-005): Steven implement resolution for issue 18 on XML
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names. [Done]
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Topic: Implementations
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Norm: I'm writing my own parser
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... ongoing
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... results for next month
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Steven: I added a command-line way of calling
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Tom: Jparser not yet highly performant
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Dave: What should we expect by June?
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Tom: At least two
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Norm: I will have an implementation by June
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s/Jparser/JayParser
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... integrated in XProc and Saxon
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Michael: I have an implementation, not performant (yet).
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... faster by June
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... also planning Prolog version
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Dave: What level confidence by June?
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Michael: I am confident
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Tom: Mine needs a rewrite, not sure if it will be ready by June
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Steven: I'm confident with mine.
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Dave: I am concerned with the stability of the spec for June release.
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Topic: Pragmas proposal
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Tom: We have spent some weeks on the proposal.
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Michael: Basic requirement is that they say things to processors without interfering with other processors.
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... Syntactically distinct. Some way for processors to recognise whether they are being addressed.
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...l USes square brackets and namespaces.
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s/I US/Us/
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... Syntax is straightforward
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Tom: We had an idea of using attributes for pragma data
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Michael: Where do pragmas occur, and what do they mean?
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... identifying what pragmas need to do sets a minimum requirement.
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... I care about the XML representation of grammars, and so don't want pragmas to be wherever comments can be.
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Steven: It sounds like this proposal is addressing use cases that should be separately addressed.
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Michael: A pragma should be allowed to respond in any way it wants to pragmas, including stopping and starting a game.
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Steven: I disagree.
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Michael: I think you are right to be concerned.
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...
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... one of the things we want pragmas for is to provide a way to support functionality that hasn't been standardised.
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... extension behaviour allows you to gain experience.
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... conformance requirements mean that processors should be able to ignore all pragmas.
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Dave: What should a non-pragma processor do with a pragma?
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Michael: Not trip over them.
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Steven: What would change if iso the [ we used for instance {! ?
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Michael: It makes pragmas heavier.
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Tom: I don't believe that should be a priority
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Steven: I really don't like using the syntax for character sets for pragmas
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Michael: FOr my use cases I want a single character for pragmas.
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s/FO/Fo/
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Norm: we could have two representations, a single character unicode, and a multicharacter ascii.
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Tom: I would like ASCII
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John: When you're presenting the pragma data to the processor, you're parsing the rules
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... it's tempting to get structure inside the pragma.
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... but maybe it should be up to the processor
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... you can work with a reserved comment structure
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... as long as you can nest
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Dave: It smells like a pre-parse
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John: I find a prgam in my namespace, I pick up the arguments, a string, I can recursively parse that string against my pragma parser
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s/parser/grammar/
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s/prgam/pragma/
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Michael: I have presented the proposal; we want syntax distinct, we want namespaces
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Steven: I don't see the conclusion
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... also it seems a lot of mechanism for what I saw as a simple need
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Norm: Question -- suppose you subtracted the QName stuff, and adding namespaces later.
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Tom: I wouldn;t support that
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s/;/'/
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Tom: I want a namespace part
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Correction: I am not saying that we need a QName namespace part
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I am saying that we need some way of avoiding namespace collision
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Steven: Namespace collision or pragma collision?
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Happy to hear an alternative proposal to XML namespaces!
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pragma collision
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Michael: I don't think that allowing namespaces there is any degree of complication.
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rrsagent, make minutes
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I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/11-ixml-minutes.html Steven
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Bethan: The pragma communicates with the processor, does it have to understand the input or only serialise it?
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Tom: If you mean writing to disc, no, but providing an XML representation, yes.
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Bethan: so the use of a pragma implies changing the result of the parser.
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Tom: It may
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Michael: Not will.
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Tom: Two issues so far: 1 - syntax (that's the easy one)
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... 2 - issue of namespaces. There is a wider issue with this.
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Steven: Namespaces is an issue that needs to be addressed separately, and I'm worried by making it a part of prgmas, we block future development before we've even thought about it.
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Dave: A statement of belief is that we need to meet more often.
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Tom: Weekly at this time?
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Tom: maybe deal with namespaces first, or ask Steven to suggest an alternative.
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ACTION: Dave to propose terminology to separate document inputs and outputs.
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rrsagent, make minutes
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I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/11-ixml-minutes.html Steven
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s/l US/Us/
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rrsagent, make minutes
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I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/11-ixml-minutes.html Steven
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