14:17:55 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #personalization
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14:17:57 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:18:00 <trackbot> Meeting: Personalization Task Force Teleconference
14:18:00 <trackbot> Date: 10 January 2022
14:18:11 <Sharon> agenda?
14:18:30 <Sharon> zakim, clear agenda
14:18:30 <Zakim> agenda cleared
14:18:43 <Sharon> chair: Sharon
14:19:19 <Sharon> agenda+  Work on the Rendering plug-in (Matthew)
14:20:21 <Sharon> agenda+ Follow-up on i18n issue #144 https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/issues/144
14:20:33 <Sharon> agenda+ Planning COGA January meeting on Module 2.0 and 3.0 (date/time/attendees)
14:21:48 <Sharon> agenda+ A shortname for the modules. The numbering is confusing.
14:22:12 <Sharon> agenda+ Is the new W3C Registry Suitable for Bliss Symbol Lookup Functions https://www.w3.org/2021/Process-20211102/#registries
14:22:31 <Sharon> agenda+ Content Module Implementations Status
14:23:02 <Sharon> agenda+ CR draft Status (if #144 is clear or there is a renderer)
14:23:08 <Sharon> agenda?
14:47:45 <janina> janina has joined #personalization
14:48:09 <janina> agenda?
14:57:53 <janina> agenda+ Meeting next Monday? MLK Day?
14:58:05 <janina> zakim, reorder 8 1 2 4 3
14:58:05 <Zakim> I don't understand 'reorder 8 1 2 4 3', janina
14:58:56 <Matthew_Atkinson> Matthew_Atkinson has joined #personalization
14:59:02 <Matthew_Atkinson> present+
14:59:08 <janina> agenda reorder 8 1 2 4 3
14:59:15 <janina> agenda?
15:00:37 <janina> https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Key_Resources_and_Links
15:00:59 <janina> agenda order 8 1 2 4 3
15:01:06 <janina> agenda?
15:03:28 <JF> JF has joined #personalization
15:03:33 <JF> Present+
15:03:37 <JF> agenda?
15:04:09 <Lionel_Wolberger> Lionel_Wolberger has joined #personalization
15:06:26 <Lionel_Wolberger> q?
15:06:30 <Lionel_Wolberger> agenda?
15:07:42 <janina> regrets+ Becky
15:08:03 <janina> present+
15:08:07 <Matthew_Atkinson> present+
15:08:12 <Lionel_Wolberger> present+
15:09:10 <janina> https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Key_Resources_and_Links
15:10:18 <Matthew_Atkinson> scribe: Matthew_Atkinson
15:10:29 <Matthew_Atkinson> zakim, next item
15:10:29 <Zakim> agendum 8 -- Meeting next Monday? MLK Day? -- taken up [from janina]
15:12:37 <Matthew_Atkinson> janina: Want to honor the holiday, but expect most of us will be here (due to covid), and we aim to reach CR as soon as possible, so suggest we meet.
15:12:55 <JF> Q+
15:13:56 <JF> ack me
15:14:01 <Matthew_Atkinson> JF: Any news on path to CR?
15:14:05 <janina> scribe: janina
15:14:09 <Matthew_Atkinson> janina: Let's address in following items
15:14:11 <Matthew_Atkinson> zakim, next item
15:14:11 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Work on the Rendering plug-in (Matthew) -- taken up [from Sharon]
15:14:28 <janina> Matthew_Atkinson: zakim, close this item
15:14:38 <janina> zakim, take up item 1
15:14:38 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Work on the Rendering plug-in (Matthew) -- taken up [from Sharon]
15:15:02 <JF> zakim, close item 8
15:15:02 <Zakim> agendum 8, Meeting next Monday? MLK Day?, closed
15:15:03 <Zakim> I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:15:03 <Zakim> 1. Work on the Rendering plug-in (Matthew) [from Sharon]
15:15:35 <janina> Matthew_Atkinson: Need to have a version of the extension we can redistribute
15:15:47 <janina> Matthew_Atkinson: Need to figure out with Lisa
15:15:58 <janina> Matthew_Atkinson: Having issues getting email to her
15:16:14 <janina> janina: Do we know what the blockage is?
15:16:26 <janina> Matthew_Atkinson: Extension I have doesn't have a license clause of any kind
15:16:43 <janina> Matthew_Atkinson: It's already in the web store, but the older version
15:17:56 <Lionel_Wolberger> q?
15:18:00 <janina> janina: Expects that there would not be a license distinction from 1.0 to 1.1?
15:18:18 <janina> Lionel_Wolberger: How can I help
15:18:37 <janina> Matthew_Atkinson: Not actually sure what version is in the web store
15:19:56 <CharlesL> CharlesL has joined #personalization
15:20:02 <CharlesL> present+
15:20:53 <janina> Lionel_Wolberger: we'll need instructions, if it's a file being distributed, yes?
15:21:05 <janina> Matthew_Atkinson: It's a standard process, but can do. It's easy
15:21:42 <Lionel_Wolberger> q?
15:23:32 <Matthew_Atkinson> scribe: Matthew_Atkinson
15:23:44 <Matthew_Atkinson> RRSAgent, make minutes
15:23:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/10-personalization-minutes.html Matthew_Atkinson
15:23:52 <Matthew_Atkinson> zakim, next item
15:23:52 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Follow-up on i18n issue #144 https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/issues/144 -- taken up [from Sharon]
15:24:15 <Matthew_Atkinson> Lionel_Wolberger: Checked, and no further response; we are blocked.
15:24:38 <Matthew_Atkinson> janina: Discussed with Michael and Roy; we need to clear this issue.
15:25:16 <CharlesL> I agree lets wait for the rendering before we reach out again.
15:25:24 <Matthew_Atkinson> janina: Important to get the renderer demo sorted if we can before contacting them.
15:25:26 <Matthew_Atkinson> zakim, next item
15:25:26 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- A shortname for the modules. The numbering is confusing. -- taken up [from Sharon]
15:26:06 <Matthew_Atkinson> Lionel_Wolberger: As discussed briefly before; the numbering is confusing.
15:26:41 <Lionel_Wolberger> the current, Personalization Semantics Content Module 1.0
15:26:42 <Matthew_Atkinson> janina: propose module 1 is "Content"
15:26:49 <Matthew_Atkinson> JF: Propose Content Personalization Module
15:26:50 <Lionel_Wolberger> https://www.w3.org/TR/personalization-semantics-content-1.0/
15:26:59 <Matthew_Atkinson> q+
15:27:00 <Lionel_Wolberger> The Content Module
15:27:00 <CharlesL> q+
15:27:10 <Lionel_Wolberger> Content Personalization Module
15:27:37 <Lionel_Wolberger> Personalization Content Module
15:28:04 <Lionel_Wolberger> q?
15:28:26 <janina> scribe: Let's look at long names and -- regretably they're not consistent
15:28:35 <Lionel_Wolberger> personalization help and support 1.0
15:28:44 <Lionel_Wolberger> personalization tools 1.0
15:28:52 <janina> Matthew_Atkinson: Think all long names should include "Module"
15:29:03 <Lionel_Wolberger> Matt suggests that they all should contain the term, 'module'
15:29:05 <JF> Q+
15:29:05 <janina> Matthew_Atkinson: should they all start "Personalization"
15:29:13 <Lionel_Wolberger> q?
15:29:24 <Lionel_Wolberger> ack Matthew_Atkinson
15:29:27 <Matthew_Atkinson> s/should they all start "Personalization"/should they all start "Personalization Semantics"?/
15:29:33 <CharlesL> https://w3c.github.io/personalization-semantics/#modules
15:29:43 <Matthew_Atkinson> CharlesL: ^ Explainer
15:30:11 <Lionel_Wolberger> Personalization Semantics Content Module 1.0:
15:30:11 <JF> +1 to Charles
15:30:14 <janina> CharlesL: Notes Explainer is more consistent; suggests we use that format everywhere
15:30:25 <janina> jf: Agree
15:30:26 <Matthew_Atkinson> CharlesL: The Explainer names should be used everywhere.
15:30:27 <Lionel_Wolberger> Personalization Help and Support Module 1.0
15:30:40 <Lionel_Wolberger> Personalization Tools Module 1.0
15:30:46 <Matthew_Atkinson> JF: Not aware of a rule that specifies the names must have a certain format.
15:30:49 <Lionel_Wolberger> q?
15:30:52 <Matthew_Atkinson> JF: Current names work quite well.
15:30:55 <Matthew_Atkinson> q+
15:31:00 <Lionel_Wolberger> ack CharlesL
15:31:06 <Lionel_Wolberger> ack JF
15:31:19 <Roy> q+
15:31:45 <janina> scribe: janina
15:31:57 <janina> Matthew_Atkinson: Not sure about "Semantics." do we need it in there?
15:32:07 <Lionel_Wolberger> q?
15:32:25 <Lionel_Wolberger> ack Matthew_Atkinson
15:32:50 <Matthew_Atkinson> Matthew_Atkinson: Suggest "Content Semantics" if we keep the "Semantics"
15:33:05 <Matthew_Atkinson> janina: I'm more comfortable without the "Semantics"
15:33:05 <Roy> https://www.w3.org/TR/personalization-semantics-help-1.0/
15:33:08 <Roy> https://www.w3.org/TR/personalization-semantics-tools-1.0/
15:33:54 <Matthew_Atkinson> Roy: The above are the docs that are currently published.
15:34:09 <Matthew_Atkinson> janina: We can still change the names.
15:34:23 <Lionel_Wolberger> q?
15:34:30 <Matthew_Atkinson> Matthew_Atkinson: the URLs aren't consistent with the names
15:34:35 <Lionel_Wolberger> ack Roy
15:35:01 <Lionel_Wolberger> q?
15:35:10 <CharlesL> +1 all start with Personalization
15:35:14 <Matthew_Atkinson> Lionel_Wolberger: Do we agree that they should all start with "Personalization"?
15:35:15 <Matthew_Atkinson> +1
15:35:25 <Roy> +1
15:35:26 <janina> +1
15:35:29 <JF> +1
15:35:59 <Lionel_Wolberger> The Personalization Task Force will refine the Personalization Semantics specification, in consultation with the ARIA Working Group. The task force provides a focused forum for this work while the Working Group continues its work on ARIA development. Personalization Semantics was listed in the ARIA charter as "User Context" but was renamed as work progressed.
15:36:05 <Matthew_Atkinson> Lionel_Wolberger: The first is "Semantics Content" or "Content Semantics"?
15:36:31 <Lionel_Wolberger> q?
15:36:32 <Matthew_Atkinson> Lionel_Wolberger: as JF reminds us, we are bringing semantics to the element level
15:36:45 <Matthew_Atkinson> +1 to the "element-level semantics"; that is a great micro-explainer :-)
15:36:54 <CharlesL> Agreed not the name of our TF
15:37:10 <CharlesL> q+
15:37:21 <Matthew_Atkinson> janina: Not sure that "Semantics" is part of our TF name.
15:38:11 <Matthew_Atkinson> janina: Not sure that "Semantics" is now important enough to put in the title.
15:38:12 <Matthew_Atkinson> q+
15:38:22 <Lionel_Wolberger> q?
15:39:06 <JF> Q+
15:39:14 <JF> +1 to Charles
15:39:24 <Matthew_Atkinson> CharlesL: If we take "Personalization (Content|Tools|...) Module"... we are adding semantics to each of these. Should be all or nothing.
15:39:42 <Matthew_Atkinson> CharlesL: we're not creating new tools, but adding semantics.
15:39:50 <Lionel_Wolberger> q?
15:40:00 <Lionel_Wolberger> ack CharlesL
15:40:00 <Matthew_Atkinson> CharlesL: Prefer to keep "Semantics" for all
15:40:07 <Matthew_Atkinson> Matthew_Atkinson: W3C groups says we're "Personalization" (<https://www.w3.org/groups/tf/personalization-tf>) but home page says both "Personalization Accessibilty" and "Personalization Semantics" (<https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/task-forces/personalization/>)
15:40:09 <Matthew_Atkinson> +1 to CharlesL
15:41:02 <Lionel_Wolberger> q?
15:41:06 <Lionel_Wolberger> ack Matthew_Atkinson
15:41:17 <Matthew_Atkinson> Matthew_Atkinson: "Personalization Semantics ... Module" seem accurate to me.
15:41:34 <Matthew_Atkinson> JF: Tend to agree, but not sure where the later modules are yet.
15:41:49 <Matthew_Atkinson> ... Concerned that we are particularly concerned about the symbol attribute in the first module.
15:42:10 <Matthew_Atkinson> ... Think it's purpose that is going to see the most adoption, and that is semantic information.
15:42:22 <janina> q+
15:42:22 <Matthew_Atkinson> JF: so +1 to semantics here; not sure if it's applicable for the other two modules.
15:42:23 <Lionel_Wolberger> q?
15:42:33 <Lionel_Wolberger> ack JF
15:42:59 <CharlesL> q+
15:43:10 <JF> For example, @numberfree provides alternative text for people who prefer content that does not use numerical concepts.
15:43:33 <Matthew_Atkinson> janina: The URI will stay the URI; doesn't have to match the title. We can explain how we bring semantics into help and tooling if that's the case. I can live with either, but preference to take it out of the title, as we don't fully know how those modules will devleop.
15:43:41 <Lionel_Wolberger> q?
15:43:48 <JF> Q+
15:43:48 <Lionel_Wolberger> ack janina
15:44:04 <Matthew_Atkinson> Lionel_Wolberger: Is there anything to be gained from shorter, or longer titles?
15:44:29 <Matthew_Atkinson> CharlesL: Having a more descriptive title is better than a shorter title IMO.
15:44:46 <Matthew_Atkinson> ... Looking at the Help module, these are semantics that we're adding.
15:45:05 <Lionel_Wolberger> q?
15:45:11 <Lionel_Wolberger> ack CharlesL
15:45:25 <Matthew_Atkinson> q+
15:46:17 <Matthew_Atkinson> JF: We may define semantics differently. Some of the attributes are about providing additional information (e.g. alt text isn't semantics; we have some attributes that are similar). Semantics is more like "the purpose of this element is a link". We are adding more specificity.
15:46:36 <Lionel_Wolberger> q?
15:46:40 <Matthew_Atkinson> ... Distraction is semantics, as we're stating relative importance, but a link to tools/help is a link. We want to classify it as a special type of link.
15:47:11 <Matthew_Atkinson> JF: I think Lionel_Wolberger's point on shortening the name is a useful consideration. There is nuance. Think our names are getting too long.
15:47:37 <Lionel_Wolberger> q?
15:47:45 <Matthew_Atkinson> Lionel_Wolberger: To summarise: JF doesn't feel there is so much in the way of semantics in the later modules.
15:48:03 <Lionel_Wolberger> q?
15:48:10 <Matthew_Atkinson> JF: Correct; it's often more about alternatives. Semantics are about the purpose of an element.
15:48:38 <Lionel_Wolberger> q?
15:48:42 <Lionel_Wolberger> ack JF
15:48:42 <Matthew_Atkinson> JF: A block of numbers with a span that has the "numberfree" attribute is providing an alternative restatement of that content.
15:48:49 <janina> scribe: janina
15:48:57 <janina> Matthew_Atkinson: Find the discussion interesting
15:49:16 <JF> +1 to Matthew
15:49:19 <janina> Matthew_Atkinson: Suggest that we'll likely agree on Personalization * Module
15:49:24 <janina> q+
15:49:39 <CharlesL> I think there is both, semantics and alternatives.  Message-importance for example is more semantics than alternative in the tools module.
15:49:44 <Matthew_Atkinson> scribe: Matthew_Atkinson
15:49:45 <Lionel_Wolberger> q?
15:49:45 <janina> +1 to module
15:49:51 <Matthew_Atkinson> Lionel_Wolberger: Do we all agree they should end with "Module"?
15:49:53 <Matthew_Atkinson> +1
15:50:09 <CharlesL> +1 ending wih Module
15:50:23 <CharlesL> s/wih/with
15:50:37 <janina> +1
15:50:45 <Matthew_Atkinson> Lionel_Wolberger: Each will start with "Personalization" and end with "Module" (also don't think the URL part needs to include "module"; it does already contain "personalization-semantics")
15:51:03 <CharlesL> +1
15:51:05 <janina> +1
15:51:05 <Lionel_Wolberger> +1
15:51:11 <JF> +1
15:51:14 <Matthew_Atkinson> Lionel_Wolberger: Do we agree with Personalization * Module in the names?
15:51:15 <Matthew_Atkinson> +1
15:52:39 <Matthew_Atkinson> RESOLUTION: Group agrees to a title schema "Personalization * Module" (with other changes to be discussed).
15:53:05 <Matthew_Atkinson> s/to a title schema/to a title scheme/
15:53:40 <janina> -1 to the module in the URI
15:53:43 <Matthew_Atkinson> Lionel_Wolberger: Do we want "module" in the URIs?
15:53:45 <Matthew_Atkinson> -1
15:53:49 <Lionel_Wolberger> -1
15:53:58 <JF> 0
15:54:09 <CharlesL> 0
15:54:36 <Matthew_Atkinson> q+
15:54:46 <janina> q-
15:55:05 <janina> scribe: thought we'd come back to this much later -- after we establish what we're doing with 2 & 3
15:55:08 <janina> q+
15:55:38 <Lionel_Wolberger> q+
15:55:45 <Lionel_Wolberger> ack Matthew_Atkinson
15:55:48 <Matthew_Atkinson> Matthew_Atkinson: Can this decison on the * part be pushed back?
15:56:00 <Matthew_Atkinson> janina: We need to talk to COGA though, and thus need to not use numbers.
15:56:04 <Matthew_Atkinson> janina: Which is understandable.
15:56:19 <Matthew_Atkinson> janina: Need to be clear as to which module we're talking about, and concisely.
15:56:33 <Matthew_Atkinson> janina: We are about to go to CR with the first one, the Content one, though.
15:56:55 <Lionel_Wolberger> q?
15:57:08 <Matthew_Atkinson> janina: I'm tending towards pulling "Semantics" out of the titles. We may be talking at differnt levels of strictness.
15:57:37 <Lionel_Wolberger> s/differnt/different
15:57:56 <Matthew_Atkinson> janina: We can avoid it in the titling, even if we discuss at length in the document.
15:57:59 <JF> "Personalization: Content Module", "Personalization: Help and Support Module", "Personalization: Help Module"
15:58:10 <JF> Q+
15:58:17 <Matthew_Atkinson> s/Personalization: Help Module/Personalization: Tools Module/
15:58:27 <Matthew_Atkinson> Lionel_Wolberger: Agree we need simple and consistent names for these.
15:58:43 <Matthew_Atkinson> Lionel_Wolberger: We don't need shorter names, as long as they're accurate names.
15:59:02 <JF> Proposes: "Personalization: Content Module", "Personalization: Help and Support Module", "Personalization: Help Module"
15:59:03 <Matthew_Atkinson> Lionel_Wolberger: But in this case, the shorter names help to differentiate.
15:59:04 <Lionel_Wolberger> q?
15:59:18 <Matthew_Atkinson> Lionel_Wolberger: Suggest we pick this up next time.
16:00:47 <Matthew_Atkinson> JF: +1 to continuing next time
16:01:11 <Matthew_Atkinson> Lionel_Wolberger: Propose we meet next week; can cancel if need be.
16:01:16 <Matthew_Atkinson> RRSAgent, make minutes
16:01:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/10-personalization-minutes.html Matthew_Atkinson
16:13:35 <CharlesL> CharlesL has left #personalization