14:24:28 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #coga
14:24:28 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/01/06-coga-irc
14:24:30 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:24:30 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #coga
14:24:32 <trackbot> Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:24:32 <trackbot> Date: 06 January 2022
14:25:20 <LisaSeemanKest> agenda+ actions https://docs.google.com/document/d/15HtPkkYx1CIl6bAwP2nsSZKhqTVbqcuMDRz5RmtmvXg/edit#heading=h.rei1woruiqke
14:26:15 <LisaSeemanKest> agenda+ Update from AG  and lables
14:27:54 <LisaSeemanKest> agenda+ EO feedback
14:29:27 <LisaSeemanKest> agenda+  personalization https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/wiki
14:44:06 <LisaSeemanKest> agenda+ scribe! https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/Scribe_list
14:54:38 <JohnRochford> JohnRochford has joined #COGA
14:57:27 <ShawnT> ShawnT has joined #coga
14:58:10 <ShawnT> present+
14:58:32 <LisaSeemanKest> present+
14:59:02 <kirkwood_> kirkwood_ has joined #COGA
15:00:35 <EA> EA has joined #coga
15:00:48 <Fazio> Fazio has joined #coga
15:00:55 <Fazio> present+
15:01:20 <LisaSeemanKest> scribe|: EA
15:01:26 <LisaSeemanKest> scribe: EA
15:01:28 <cweidner> cweidner has joined #COGA
15:01:33 <cweidner> present+
15:01:36 <LisaSeemanKest> scribe! https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/Scribe_list
15:01:55 <EA> Lisa requesting more scribes
15:02:18 <julierawe> julierawe has joined #coga
15:02:22 <julierawe> present+
15:02:29 <LisaSeemanKest> next item
15:03:15 <LisaSeemanKest> present+
15:03:22 <EA> Actions moved to Google document.  Lisa requested thoughts on layout of action items - need to be on the page as other groups as keep losing them.
15:03:31 <EA> EA present +
15:03:40 <Albert> Albert has joined #coga
15:03:44 <Albert> present+
15:04:00 <Fazio> I can help
15:04:06 <Fazio> \email me
15:04:26 <EA> Scrolling problematic - needs reviewing - draft by CSS on how to embed scrolling - comments needed in the next week. David F to help out.
15:04:37 <LisaSeemanKest>  https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/6351 is for scrolling on a part of a page!
15:04:42 <JohnRochford> present+
15:05:29 <EA> Issues for scrolling needed in Github,
15:05:45 <EA> David F to reach out to the group
15:06:13 <EA> EO feedback - checking if anyone on EO
15:07:19 <EA> Mobile taskforce requesting feedback followed by member action item - Albert feedback almost finished
15:07:31 <EA> Albert reckons it will be done by 13th Jan
15:07:46 <EA> After main call - mental health group meeting
15:07:55 <ShawnT> Is there a memory sub-group?
15:08:31 <LisaSeemanKest> regrets: jennie
15:08:55 <Fazio_> Fazio_ has joined #coga
15:09:03 <EA> John Kirkwood working with Jennie on guardianship
15:09:29 <EA> Julie asked to update on Clear Language. - Feedback
15:10:09 <JohnRochford> Yes, I am here and have audio.
15:11:00 <JohnRochford> q+
15:11:24 <kirkwood> present+
15:11:50 <EA> Julie mentioned that John was not getting links to subgroup.  So many different methods that the group explained the difficulties to the Silver subgroup - testable outcomes were an issue discussed.
15:12:35 <LisaSeemanKest> q?
15:12:39 <EA> Lisa mentioned that they wanted to hear from Wilco about his views and in the meantime items that might pass or might not pass will be clarified.
15:13:15 <julierawe> q+
15:13:19 <EA> John R felt there were several individuals who felt that making things testable was something that needs to be sorted out.
15:14:14 <EA> John felt that commentary will be re-opened if necessary and also working on accessibility of caption documents.
15:14:17 <Fazio_> q+
15:15:07 <EA> Lisa asked if someone from the Clear Language group wants to make the document open so people can add commentary.
15:15:10 <LisaSeemanKest> ack j
15:15:24 <LisaSeemanKest> ack JohnRochford
15:16:19 <JohnRochford> John R. says he can join the clear language subgroup weekly meetings for the first hour, that the EOWG will reopen its doc if we have commentary, and that he is now working with Janina, Jason, and Alastair on the Inaccessibility of CAPTCHA doc.
15:16:25 <stevelee> stevelee has joined #coga
15:16:34 <EA> Julia added that she was happy to help out with the structure for the document with ways to organise the examples.  The silver group wants to provide guidance but wants examples of things that might fail etc to hone testing
15:16:52 <EA> Julie will set up the google document and add it to the page.
15:17:06 <LisaSeemanKest> ack david
15:17:11 <Rachael> present+
15:17:18 <LisaSeemanKest> ack fazio
15:17:55 <EA> David mentioned that in APA there was a lot of discussion about the caption document - capture acronym needs to be looked at in terms the automated aspect - for content producers or users? etc
15:18:20 <EA> Caption or capture?
15:19:41 <JohnRochford> CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing test to tell Computers and Humans Apart)
15:20:09 <LisaSeemanKest> q?
15:20:14 <JohnRochford> q-
15:20:14 <EA> Lisa round up of subgroups. Mental health - different aspects of 1st round of  literary reviews to be finished off.  Silver group - clear language examples.  Image subgroup working on examples as well (Jennie, Raine and John K)
15:20:23 <LisaSeemanKest> next item
15:20:27 <Rachael> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Finalize_labels
15:21:07 <EA> Thank you John R - please make a note - where capture and caption are seen it should be CAPTCHA.
15:21:33 <Rachael> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/AG_process
15:23:01 <Rachael> Level 3: AG has high confidence in the direction and some confidence in the details
15:23:06 <EA> Rachael  said that the labels need to be added to the actual document and the present labels are not ideal and need changing.  Place holder at a basic level is accepted, Exploratory is acceptable but level 3 AG has high confidence and some confidence in detail 4
15:23:13 <Rachael> Level 4: AG has high confidence in the direction and moderate confidence in the details
15:23:23 <Rachael> Level 5: Content is believed to be ready to become a W3C Recommendation
15:23:50 <LisaSeemanKest> q?
15:23:53 <EA> Question is which of those in Level 3/4/5 make sense
15:23:54 <Rachael> options: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Finalize_labels
15:24:03 <julierawe> q+
15:25:18 <EA> Julie asked about the EO document about how people use the web - trying to understand the differences between level 4 or 5 -
15:25:19 <LisaSeemanKest> ack j
15:25:23 <LisaSeemanKest> q+
15:25:42 <EA> Julie said comments can happen at each level and all are available - just at different phases in the development.
15:25:56 <EA> Comments are needed at all stages
15:26:39 <EA> Julie felt that this was clear from the levels in particular at level 5 where it is not that it is 'done'
15:26:50 <LisaSeemanKest> Developing, Refining, Mature
15:26:56 <EA> So level 5 can still be corrected and always have recommendations.
15:27:11 <EA> It is not finalised until it is actually published
15:27:19 <Rachael> initial draft (still needs work): https://raw.githack.com/w3c/silver/status-proposal/guidelines/index.html#normative-requirements
15:28:13 <julierawe> +1 to Lisa's comments!
15:28:15 <EA> Lisa felt personally that 'developing for stage 3, refining stage 4 and maturing for stage 5
15:28:47 <EA> Lisa from past experienced has learnt that mature does not commit to no changes
15:29:02 <Rachael> So: 1) Placeholder	2) Exploratory	3) Developing	4) Refining	5) Mature
15:29:14 <EA> Julie mentioned that this sounds good
15:29:26 <EA> John K agreed with Lisa's wording
15:29:42 <EA> +1
15:29:45 <ShawnT> +1
15:29:46 <kirkwood> +1
15:29:47 <LisaSeemanKest> do peope like it
15:29:49 <LisaSeemanKest> +1
15:29:51 <julierawe> +1
15:29:55 <Albert> +1
15:29:56 <Rachael> +1
15:29:58 <cweidner> +1
15:30:13 <LisaSeemanKest> next item
15:30:14 <EA> Agreement overall with Lisa's wording for the various levels
15:30:17 <LisaSeemanKest> q?
15:30:22 <LisaSeemanKest> ack l
15:30:24 <LisaSeemanKest> next item
15:31:15 <LisaSeemanKest> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-cognitive-a11y-tf/2022Jan/0005.html
15:31:53 <EA> Kris Anne Kinney sent an email in about EO
15:32:03 <LisaSeemanKest> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1swkJVhcw60QuLJEOFgRtNHh5SVhJYlPPH8N4XBEG3Bc/edit#heading=h.nqqrx1yu1uw7
15:32:50 <EA> Lisa mentioned that there was disquiet about the origninal document so Julie put together a google document that summarised the thoughts about it all.
15:33:45 <EA> Lisa prposed that coga would spend the next 2 weeks reviewing the summnary of 'COGA review of “How People With Disabilities Use the Web”
15:34:05 <LisaSeemanKest> Q?
15:35:05 <EA> It is a public document at present and will remain open whilst the review happens. EO wanted to close the survey feedback as they had quite a lot of feedback and wanted to work on what they had and then would allow for more feedback.
15:36:40 <EA> Julie felt that the minor fixes were easy - based on some lack of clear language and structure but the main issue was around the topic of neurological issues and coga
15:36:42 <LisaSeemanKest> agenda+
15:36:55 <LisaSeemanKest> agenda?
15:37:40 <EA> Modified proposal is that the group spend 20 mins on the page about cognitive issues this week and next week
15:37:43 <kirkwood> +1
15:37:48 <LisaSeemanKest> scribe! https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/Scribe_list [from LisaSeemanKest]
15:38:34 <kirkwood> yes very confusing experience
15:38:35 <julierawe> Here is the page on cognitive, learning, and neurological disabilities: https://deploy-preview-113--wai-people-use-web.netlify.app/people-use-web/abilities-barriers-cognitive/
15:38:36 <EA> Lisa is going to share the screen and open the document about “How People With Disabilities Use the Web”
15:38:40 <EA> +q
15:38:56 <LisaSeemanKest> https://deploy-preview-113--wai-people-use-web.netlify.app/people-use-web/abilities-barriers-cognitive/
15:39:00 <LisaSeemanKest> ack ea
15:40:16 <kirkwood> very good point!
15:42:05 <EA> Lisa mentioned that she felt that Cognitive learning and neurological needs rewriting - summary not helpful
15:42:14 <EA> Julia agreed
15:42:18 <EA> +1
15:43:14 <EA> Julie mentioned nervous system as being inexact - overly broad.  Very complex needs to have clearer wording in particular the first paragraph
15:43:20 <kirkwood> +1
15:44:17 <Fazio_> technically I think its all neuro but it might be too confusing
15:44:31 <EA> Julie mentioned overall title not helpful - can neurological disorders be removed as very confusing.
15:44:44 <kirkwood> +1 neurological is problematic
15:44:51 <EA> +1
15:44:56 <ShawnT> +1
15:45:01 <Fazio_> +1Lisa
15:45:08 <EA> Yes very broad and need to define it more
15:45:42 <kirkwood> unhelpful, confusing, doesn’t relate
15:46:00 <EA> Lisa confirmed that she felt it was unhelpful and the bullet points did not support it - can we ask if it can be redone.
15:46:36 <EA> John R said that perhaps they should have looked at Content Usable.
15:46:55 <EA> Julie said can we start with a blank slate.
15:47:04 <Rachael> q+
15:47:26 <Rachael> q-
15:47:59 <julierawe> q+
15:48:00 <EA> John R said that they do not really feel content usable is suitable and maybe we need to understand this
15:48:25 <EA> Lisa mentioned other documents may be used
15:48:51 <Rachael> +1
15:48:54 <EA> Julie suggested we rewrite content to fit what is needed as one page and then present it to EO
15:49:04 <Rachael> q+
15:49:07 <kirkwood> +1
15:49:16 <ShawnT> +1 to Julie
15:49:49 <LisaSeemanKest> ack j
15:49:54 <LisaSeemanKest> ack r
15:50:56 <Rachael> q-
15:50:56 <kirkwood> +1 to Rachael suggestion
15:50:59 <EA> Rachael has mentioned that EO have a set of documents that they want to use - need to havea meeting with the Chair to discuss how best to move forward
15:51:01 <cweidner> +1
15:51:09 <JohnRochford> +1
15:51:45 <EA> John R said they would be open to the idea of a meeting with the chairs
15:51:46 <julierawe> q+
15:52:02 <EA> Lisa said can we meet and work on this and has provided more links
15:52:13 <Rachael> Chairs are Kris, Brent and Sharron
15:52:26 <Rachael> www.w3.org/groups/wg/eowg/participants
15:54:15 <EA> Julie asked if we could return to the list of examples on the EO document - may be helpful to understand the broader territory or what is covered - including MS, perceptual difficulties etc.
15:54:42 <julierawe> q+
15:55:22 <julierawe> q-
15:55:28 <EA> Lisa pointed out the different definitions used in the document for a series of disabilities and difficulties.
15:57:05 <EA> Lisa moved on to the case study of Luis on the EO document. Not enough time
15:57:26 <EA> Julie mentioned structure issues - flow could be improved.  Barriers before how to help
15:57:51 <EA> +1 to Julie's comments - problem with differences in layouts across W3C
15:58:07 <EA> +q
16:00:48 <kirkwood> the structure is very different than others, several versions are an issue, laid out differently than other W3C materials. esp user stories format
16:01:35 <kirkwood> agree with EA comments
16:02:12 <julierawe> q+
16:02:33 <kirkwood> will be back in a few
16:03:09 <LisaSeemanKest> RRSAgent, make logs public
16:03:35 <LisaSeemanKest> RRSAgent, publish  logs
16:03:35 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'publish  logs', LisaSeemanKest.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
16:04:10 <LisaSeemanKest> RRSAgent, publish  minutes
16:04:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/06-coga-minutes.html LisaSeemanKest
16:10:21 <LisaSeemanKest> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/Subgroups/Mental_Health
16:12:32 <Rashmi> Rashmi has joined #COGA
16:13:16 <LisaSeemanKest> instuctions and list of papers are at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XWmikm5Ein5CQ02knEJ5iGzO1YJMilTMBJ_aLVCTzs0/edit#
16:14:14 <LisaSeemanKest> review form
16:14:16 <LisaSeemanKest> https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeGrqJKV7RluoYrKHJN8cBJH3w9sDx7lAlAhcV0BeBTUVybkw/viewform
16:16:21 <LisaSeemanKest> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1eKNrofGubnpQE6mO-vxmI-1MW5nA2LDj0LxebREPRGA/edit?resourcekey#gid=1686096268
16:18:45 <Fazio_> Sorry. I need to drop off
16:26:29 <LisaSeemanKest> rashmi : https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Investigating-Information-Search-by-People-with-Hu-Feng/3d3585ad66f8f7ba2d5386ba2a6ebb90ba8d0bcf
16:27:16 <LisaSeemanKest> John kirkwood: Lupton D. The digitally engaged patient: self-monitoring and self-care in the digital health era. Soc Theory Health. 2013;11:256–70.  https://link.springer.com/article/10.1057%2Fsth.2013.10
16:27:57 <LisaSeemanKest> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XWmikm5Ein5CQ02knEJ5iGzO1YJMilTMBJ_aLVCTzs0/edit#heading=h.b3q5kf3eauwo
16:31:27 <LisaSeemanKest> rashmi full link : https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/2729981
16:32:55 <kirkwood> If I’m correct I find that mine is behind a login too?
16:33:08 <ShawnT> ShawnT has joined #coga
16:34:50 <LisaSeemanKest> rashmi: https://ebmh.bmj.com/content/20/3/65
16:36:09 <LisaSeemanKest> john : https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1361-6579/ab2057/pdf
16:36:20 <Rashmi> Thanks Lisa I am able to see it
16:45:30 <LisaSeemanKest> https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeGrqJKV7RluoYrKHJN8cBJH3w9sDx7lAlAhcV0BeBTUVybkw/viewform
16:50:00 <LisaSeemanKest> rashmi: https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/s11920-016-0746-6.pdf
16:51:56 <Rashmi> Lisa It seems only abstract,could you please check that
16:53:29 <LisaSeemanKest> form: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeGrqJKV7RluoYrKHJN8cBJH3w9sDx7lAlAhcV0BeBTUVybkw/viewform
16:56:03 <LisaSeemanKest> john:  https://mental.jmir.org/2018/4/e10652/
16:58:06 <Albert> https://bmcpsychiatry.biomedcentral.com/track/pdf/10.1186/s12888-014-0368-7.pdf
17:01:21 <LisaSeemanKest> https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeGrqJKV7RluoYrKHJN8cBJH3w9sDx7lAlAhcV0BeBTUVybkw/viewform
17:01:42 <LisaSeemanKest>  Kalckreuth
17:05:56 <LisaSeemanKest> lisa.seeman@zoho.com
17:07:25 <Rashmi> rashmirkatakwar@gmail.com
17:12:31 <ShawnT> ShawnT has joined #coga
17:20:15 <LisaSeemanKest> https://www.w3.org/groups/wg/ag
17:21:44 <LisaSeemanKest> https://www.w3.org/groups/wg/ag/apply-as-invited-expert
19:03:48 <bkardell_> bkardell_ has joined #coga
20:34:33 <ShawnT> ShawnT has joined #coga