17:56:48 RRSAgent has joined #aria 17:56:48 logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/12/16-aria-irc 17:56:50 RRSAgent, make logs Public 17:56:52 please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), jamesn 17:57:00 agendabot, find agenda 17:57:00 jamesn, sorry, I don't know which mailing list or calendar is associated with this channel. Try "agendabot, help this is". 17:57:17 agendabot, help this is 17:57:17 jamesn, if you say "agendabot, this is xyz", I will remember the calendar "group/wg/xyz" (or similar), and the mailing list "xyz" (or "public-xyz", "www-xyz", "member-xyz", "w3c-xyz" or "team-xyz" or "w3t-xyz", whichever I can find and read) and use it to search for agendas. You can also give the 17:57:17 … URL: "agendabot this is https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xyz/". Multiple lists is also possible. Just separate the names or URLs with commas or with the word "and". 17:57:37 agendabot this is aria 17:57:41 agendabot, this is aria 17:57:43 jamesn, OK, using https://www.w3.org/groups/wg/aria/calendar, and https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/ 17:57:53 agendabot, find agenda 17:57:53 jamesn, OK. This may take a minute... 17:57:53 agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/1d223877-730c-446f-bfa9-2e9222902112/20211216T130000 17:57:53 clear agenda 17:57:53 agenda+ New Issue Triage 17:57:53 agenda+ New PR Triage 17:57:56 agenda+ CR Published 17:57:58 agenda+ Activation point or sub-element click target (maybe aria-hitpoint?) 17:58:01 agenda+ Need an attr to indicate element activation triggers audio, video, etc. 17:58:04 agenda+ Happy Holidays - next meeting Jan 6, 2022 17:58:46 chair: JamesNurthen 17:58:52 meeting: ARIA WG 17:59:26 agenda? 18:01:04 MarkMcCarthy has joined #aria 18:01:07 present+ 18:02:26 Jaunita_George has joined #aria 18:02:30 present+ 18:02:48 StefanS has joined #aria 18:04:05 pkra has joined #aria 18:04:27 scribe: jcraig 18:04:29 present+ 18:04:32 present+ 18:04:33 zakim, take up item 1 18:04:33 agendum 1 -- New Issue Triage -- taken up [from agendabot] 18:04:45 aaronlev has joined #aria 18:05:16 frank has joined #aria 18:05:46 scottono has joined #aria 18:06:17 present+ 18:10:28 scribe: MarkMcCarthy 18:11:29 sarah_higley has joined #aria 18:11:35 present+ 18:11:45 [we started off with some intros for Frank - welcome!] 18:12:12 https://github.com/search?l=&q=is:open+is:issue+created:%3E%3D2021-12-09+repo:w3c/aria+repo:w3c/accname+repo:w3c/core-aam+repo:w3c/dpub-aam+repo:w3c/dpub-aria&type=Issues 18:12:32 jamesn: 5 new issues - starting with 1662 18:13:11 present+ 18:13:17 jcraig: no strong preference on what they _should_ be, and not certain if we need a new type of list, 18:13:36 jcraig: if we can remove the longer names, we could use listitemkey and listitemvalue 18:13:50 jcraig: just some suggestions, nothing concrete! 18:13:54 jamesn: 1.3? 18:13:56 scottono: yeah 18:14:19 jamesn: i'm also pretty sympathetic to this 18:14:25 sarah_higley: +1 18:16:14 pkra: i also linked this to Joanie's issue of DLs vs OLs 18:16:16 jamesn: thanks! 18:17:02 jamesn: maybe this would be a good deep dive conversation 18:17:08 +1 18:17:32 siri has joined #aria 18:18:50 next issue, dpub, issue 40 18:19:02 s/next/jamesn: next 18:19:23 jamesn: i don't have a milestone for this, we'll just leave it in dpub and take care of it later on - objections? 18:19:25 [none] 18:19:51 jamesn: issue 1661, Joanie opened this. we have some comments - scott, what should the milestone be? 18:20:51 scottono: joanie's looking at things a bit, also pointing out that native selects and aria selects behave differently. i'm not sure how important this is, but it's a good example of HTML/ARIA differences (and joanie rightly pointing out it's confusing) 18:21:11 Jaunita_George: maybe throw this to APG, they can help explain the differences in behaviours? 18:21:19 spectranaut: not sure it's that simple though 18:21:27 jamesn: can you do some more research on this Valerie? 18:21:43 spectranaut: sure, but I'm not sure what more I can provide than Joanie already did. I just think it needs more discussion and more eyes 18:21:55 jamesn: okay - I'll 1.3 it and agenda it for a later meeting 18:21:57 spectranaut: good idea 18:22:05 mck: yep 18:22:08 zakim, next item 18:22:08 agendum 2 -- New PR Triage -- taken up [from agendabot] 18:22:17 https://github.com/search?l=&q=is:open+is:pr+created:%3E%3D2021-12-09+repo:w3c/aria+repo:w3c/accname+repo:w3c/core-aam+repo:w3c/dpub-aam+repo:w3c/dpub-aria+repo:w3c/html-aam&type=Issues 18:22:41 https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1663 18:22:49 jamesn: 1663 - we have 3 approving reviews, will be merged soon. look at it quick if you want to make comments! 18:23:21 jamesn: 1660 - jcraig, this needs reveiwers. joanie is signed up and scott signed off. 18:24:10 jcraig: in a nutshell, this mostly removed unecessary specificity and adds helpful vagueness 18:24:24 jcraig: this is mostly editorial, and removes some unnecessary limiting language 18:24:38 jamesn: carmacleod is down to review it, so we should be good there then 18:24:57 jamesn: 1658 pkra is now an editor! 18:25:07 group: congrats, well done, sympathies, rock on! 18:25:33 zakim, next item 18:25:33 agendum 3 -- CR Published -- taken up [from agendabot] 18:26:18 jamesn: we should have announced something to some people, and should hold an announcement until after the holidays...give people all of January to review it 18:26:30 jamesn: objections? 18:26:43 carmacleod: don't disagree, but wonder if there's a timeline? 18:26:50 jamesn: we need implementations done first 18:27:01 carmacleod: gotcha 18:27:26 jamesn: valerie, do you know where the implementations are? 18:27:28 sorry have to drop off. 18:27:52 spectranaut: yes, but I don't know the status of it, Joanie probably does 18:28:17 jamesn: i need to have a meeting with her about this anyway. we only have one main implementer which is bottlenecking, would love others! 18:28:35 jamesn: and of course aaronlev as well. :) 18:28:49 jamesn: unless there's objections, i think it's fair with holidays to extend things out a bit. 18:29:25 zakim, next item 18:29:25 agendum 4 -- Activation point or sub-element click target (maybe aria-hitpoint?) -- taken up [from agendabot] 18:29:38 https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/788 18:29:54 jamesn: jcraig put some comments into the issue following our deep dive last week. what are the next steps on this? 18:30:37 jcraig: quick recap - there's a feature in VoiceOver that allows direct manipulation to sliders. basically can simulate drag events 18:30:59 scribe: Juanita_George 18:31:08 scribe: Jaunita_George 18:33:02 jcraig: ...We can use a sub-level element and the AT can decide if it wants to mimic tap behavior 18:33:48 ...We might not need a role for that, we could use an ARIA attribute for it 18:34:29 q? 18:35:10 ...I had a few proposals, one being "hit point" and is that the right name? How should that be exposed? 18:35:38 siri: So the slider will rotate the product? 18:35:43 q+ 18:35:57 jcraig: Let me give a demo 18:40:22 sarah_higley: I don't know if screen reader users need track clicking. Is this only for screen reader users or are other use cases? 18:40:52 regrets+ Harris 18:40:57 regrets+ Joanie 18:41:04 jcraig: With most AT besides screen readers, we do use pointer events 18:41:05 regrets+ Curt 18:42:36 sarah_higley: Another interesting example is charts 18:43:11 frank: There are use cases with selection ranges 18:43:30 jcraig: Let me demo this 18:43:35 I guess some of my questions are circling the idea that a JS implementation might be more flexible, but I don't know what roadblocks were encountered with that 😓 18:45:17 jamesn: I can see this used for two D controls as well as charts 18:46:11 q? 18:46:11 jcraig: We can implement this as aria-slider but could cause people to bypass track 18:46:44 jamesn: If you had it the way you are proposing where you have the hit point on the thumb itself, would this allow multiple thumbs? 18:46:49 jcraig: No 18:47:12 jamesn: If you have a line graph where you could manipulate the lines ... 18:47:36 jcraig: The container itself would have a role in that case 18:47:46 frank: What would an audio graph do? 18:48:02 q? 18:48:47 agenda? 18:49:00 siri: How is that different from regular sliders? 18:49:11 ack me 18:49:28 matt: Sliders don't work properly in iOS 18:50:34 correction: Mark: sliders don't work like native iOS 18:51:47 q? 18:52:08 jcraig: This is just a proposal to control standard drag points 18:52:17 sarah_higley: We could treat this like a state 18:53:18 jcraig: We do this in other cases 18:53:36 ...do you want this to be a role? Do you want this to point inward or outward? I think it should be outward 18:54:36 jcraig: This is closer to aria-controls 18:56:09 jamesn: Do we need roles for this? 18:58:04 Zakim: next item 18:58:23 Zakim, next item 18:58:23 agendum 5 -- Need an attr to indicate element activation triggers audio, video, etc. -- taken up [from agendabot] 18:59:02 q+ 18:59:08 jcraig: We have two APIs on iOS -- one is used for longer sound and the play sound trait triggers audio, even if it's short 18:59:52 RRSAgent, make minutes 18:59:52 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/12/16-aria-minutes.html Jaunita_George 20:02:24 jongunderson has joined #aria 20:35:11 Jemma has joined #aria