15:05:44 RRSAgent has joined #wot-td 15:05:44 logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/12/15-wot-td-irc 15:06:09 meeting: WoT-WG - TD-TF 15:06:23 present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Daniel_Peintner, Ege_Korkan 15:06:26 chair: Ege 15:06:33 regrets+ Sebastian 15:07:15 agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#Dec_15.2C_2021 15:09:02 present+ Fady_Salama, Cristiano_Aguzzi 15:09:10 cris has joined #wot-td 15:10:35 Fady has joined #wot-td 15:10:39 scribenick: Fady 15:11:28 present+ Michael_Lagally 15:11:33 topic: Minutes 15:11:53 -> https://www.w3.org/2021/12/08-wot-td-minutes.html Dec-8 15:12:40 Last week we started wit mins review 15:12:50 ... then publication plans 15:13:01 mlagally has joined #wot-td 15:13:42 ... then different PRs 15:13:58 mjk has joined #wot-td 15:14:08 s/wit /with / 15:14:24 ... we agreed on the namespace for v1.1 15:15:10 ... reached resolution about TD and working draft 15:15:26 q+ 15:15:36 ... minutes approved 15:15:56 present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima, Michael_Koster, Jan_Romann 15:16:02 JKRhb has joined #wot-td 15:16:03 rrsagent, make log public 15:16:11 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:16:11 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/12/15-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 15:16:51 topic: Issue #1323 15:17:15 i/topic:/topic: TD/ 15:17:24 s/topic:/subtopic:/ 15:18:22 Issue link: https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1323 15:18:22 Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel. 15:18:38 s/Issue link:/-> / 15:19:00 s|1323|1323 Issue 1323 - Missing event/notification affordance| 15:20:21 mlagally: Missing an affordance for receiving events/notifications 15:21:41 ege: We have to make sure that the payload is understandable 15:22:00 ... just having the operation is not enough 15:23:08 q+ 15:23:14 ack ml 15:23:27 ... For me this is not only about events, a response/notification is need and this is a significant change 15:24:10 ... it is very straight forward for one device but we need more experience 15:24:38 mlagally: We can test in the the next plugfest and pull it of 15:25:35 dape has joined #wot-td 15:26:17 ... I think we can have a notify-operation 15:26:29 ege: I am worried about the time 15:27:18 ... and security related concerns 15:28:36 mlagally: The TD should be able to describe servers and sensors and not being able to notify seems strange at that point 15:29:09 ege: I agree but I am concernd about the time 15:29:42 mlagally: I am less concernd, a 20 liner would suffice 15:30:27 ege: We would need another schema and that would be rushed. We do not have time 15:30:39 q+ 15:30:45 ryuichi has joined #wot-td 15:31:25 ack cris 15:31:26 mlagally: I believe we can do it in current time 15:32:42 cris: I agree with Ege. I did not fully understand Michael Lagally. 15:33:04 q+ 15:33:22 ack k 15:33:53 kaz: We should talk about it when Michael Lagally or Sebastian are there 15:34:13 ege: We need to discuss this before the review deadline 15:34:30 s/kaz: We should talk about it when Michael Lagally or Sebastian are there/kaz: would strongly suggest we hold the discussion about this Issue not today but during the next TD call with both Sebastian and Lagally based on some concrete use case/ 15:34:53 ack j 15:35:07 topic: Binding Templates 15:35:30 subtopic: PR #142 15:36:55 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/142 PR 142 - Align mqtt document with the current project set-up 15:37:14 ege: Cristiano reordered mqtt-bining template to look more conformant project set-up 15:38:19 cris: I need to fix section tags 15:38:40 ege: after fixing them we can merge offline 15:39:17 subtopic: PR #140 15:39:42 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/140 15:41:33 s|140|140 PR 140 - Introduce draft for text binding template| 15:42:28 related issue: https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/issues/141 15:42:28 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/issues/141 related Issue 141 - Formalize the concept of Data Schema Values. 15:42:46 s|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/issues/141 related Issue 141 - Formalize the concept of Data Schema Values.|| 15:43:38 cris: Where should formalize the Data Schema values? 15:44:12 ege: It would be nice to have it in the TD spec 15:45:10 ... we can just put that in the descriptions of the data schemas 15:45:34 ... and maybe have a little table that points to the idl types 15:47:05 ... we should think if this should be normative or informative? Tables are nomative 15:47:49 cris: Not sure now, have to think about it 15:48:22 ... I am actually fine either way 15:48:42 ege: Maybe more people will comment 15:50:04 topic: Issue #137 15:50:25 ege: propose closing the issue 15:50:47 i|propose|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/issues/137 Issue 137 - MQTT and Modbus does not meet the architecture eligible criteria for a protocol binding| 15:51:07 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:51:07 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/12/15-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 15:51:25 topic Issue #139 15:51:40 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/issues/139 15:51:47 s/topic:/subtopic:/ 15:51:54 s/topic /subtopic: / 15:52:26 s/139/139 Issue 139 - XML template is more for green field devices/ 15:52:29 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:52:29 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/12/15-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 15:53:41 q+ 15:54:10 daniel: It's not always possible to validate XML based on JSONSchemas 15:55:00 ... propose adding xml-schema string for proper validation 15:55:20 ege: We should put it in content-type 15:55:25 q? 15:55:52 daniel: We need to find a way to use validation for data other than JSON 15:55:56 cris: 15:56:04 ... I agree 15:56:18 ... But we still have a problem 15:57:54 ... You cannot model other content-types in JSON 15:58:28 q+ 15:58:38 ack c 15:58:51 daniel: There are cases where it will fail 15:59:02 q+ 15:59:21 ... you cannot represent any XML as JSON 15:59:47 ege: Can we find a least common denominator? 16:00:01 daniel: It's difficult 16:00:25 ege: Is XML a superset of JSON? 16:01:00 daniel: I think yes. You can always represent JSON in XML but not vice versa 16:03:02 ack mjk 16:04:27 mjk: JSON Schema and TD should be abstract and do not need to map everything that is possible 16:05:44 ... we may need to add fundamental data patterns 16:06:00 ... needs evaluation 16:06:30 q+ 16:06:58 ... what do people need in XML that is available in JSON? I didn't find anything yet 16:06:59 q- 16:07:47 ... we should be careful about adding to data shemas because clients would need to be more intelligent 16:08:07 q? 16:08:10 ack cris 16:08:11 cris: I agree 16:08:25 ... I also agree with Daniel 16:08:57 ... We can define a pattern/restricton on XML 16:09:42 ... There is a pattern that maybe compliant with JSON 16:09:59 q? 16:10:56 mjk: We should have a look on the corner cases 16:11:37 ege: To summarize: There will be edge-case and we will not model everything 16:12:01 q+ 16:12:05 ... Daniel, can you find these corner cases? 16:12:39 daniel: I already submitted some, I can have a look for others 16:13:03 ... I don't know if we need to support 16:13:47 cris: We need to define fallback mechanisms for corner cases 16:14:49 mjk: We may need to take the rdf approach of handling such cases 16:15:46 topic: TD 16:16:10 subtopic: PR #1322 16:16:21 s/TD/TD - revisited/ 16:16:26 ege: just typos 16:16:50 i|just typos|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1322 PR 1322 - fix: typos| 16:17:32 subtopic: PR #1319 16:18:06 ege: It was not clear that security forms are extended from a base form 16:21:00 cris: Just add a form type. The rule is not used 16:21:19 ege: You are proposing a hack 16:21:57 ... I am fine with this, but we need to comment it 16:23:35 subtopic: Issue #1316 16:24:00 q+ 16:24:06 ack c 16:24:16 ege: I don't know what the Overiew.html file is for 16:24:31 ... Does any one know? 16:25:48 kaz: This is a file snapshot of the current version of the TD. 16:27:15 ... we used to snapshot publications and put in it the top level 16:27:28 ... They are now in directories 16:27:50 ... I am ok with removing the top-level overview.html 16:27:52 s/directories/sub directories/ 16:28:18 ege: I will do a PR in case someone wants to review it 16:30:17 subtopic: Issue #674 16:30:18 q? 16:30:21 ack k 16:31:03 ege: We need an '$id' that is a url 16:32:08 cris: Sounds good to me? Are there any problems with W3C? 16:32:15 ege: I think it will be fine 16:32:21 cris: Sounds good 16:32:47 ege: will use github url 16:33:38 subtopic: Issue #1211 16:34:29 ege: It's a rather old issue about additonal responses 16:35:06 ... does anyone have comments on this? 16:35:07 q+ 16:35:32 cris: In node-wot we don't support this yet 16:36:05 ack 16:36:11 s/ack// 16:36:13 ack k 16:36:25 subtopic: Issue #674 - revisited 16:37:27 kaz: Who will change the '$id'? 16:37:27 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/674#issuecomment-994959559 Ege's comment 16:37:40 s|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/674#issuecomment-994959559 Ege's comment|| 16:37:48 i|Who|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/674#issuecomment-994959559 Ege's comment| 16:37:50 .. we should add an editor's note about it 16:38:22 s/about it/about it so that we won't forget about it when we publish the next WD./ 16:38:36 rrsagent, draft minutes 16:38:36 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/12/15-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 16:38:37 q+ 16:38:37 subtopic: Issue #1326 16:40:33 i|It was not clear that|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1319 PR 1319 - Make forms inherited from a base form| 16:40:56 https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1321 16:41:16 i|I don't know what the O|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1316 Issue 1316 - Removing Overview.html file| 16:41:53 i|We need an '|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/674 Issue 674 - Need a $id for the JSON Schema| 16:42:31 i|It's a rather old|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1211 Issue 1211 - Use of Additional Response in non-error cases| 16:42:51 rrsagent, draft minutes 16:42:51 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/12/15-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 16:46:49 q+ 16:48:07 kaz: We need to think what should be normative about the binding templates, not what we should copy 16:49:01 s/, not/ rather than/ 16:51:57 s/should copy/want to copy from Binding Templates Note back to the Thing Description spec./ 16:52:45 i|1321|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1326 Issue 1326 - Unclear what "Protocol Binding document" refers to in section 8.3| 16:53:05 q? 16:53:07 ack c 16:54:23 ack c 16:54:31 rrsagent, draft minutes 16:54:31 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/12/15-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 16:55:43 s|https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1321|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1321 related issue 1321| 16:55:47 topic: AOB? 16:55:57 dape: will there a TD call next week? 16:56:01 ege: not sure 16:57:42 kaz: please check with Sebastian, and if we do have a TD call on Dec 22, we should update the "Cancellations" section of the WoT main wiki 16:58:37 -> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Main_WoT_WebConf#Cancellations Cancellations section of the WoT main wiki 16:58:47 ege: will check with Sebastian 16:58:53 kaz: tx 16:58:58 [adjourned] 16:59:07 i/will there/scribenick: kaz/ 16:59:12 rrsagent, draft minutes 16:59:12 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/12/15-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 17:02:04 s/Description spec./Description spec. There is a possibility we can make the Binding Templates a REC-track document again, but currently the document is a WG Note./ 17:02:06 rrsagent, draft minutes 17:02:06 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/12/15-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 17:14:57 sebastian has joined #wot-td