13:45:33 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #ag-facilitators
13:45:33 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/12/13-ag-facilitators-irc
13:45:36 <Rachael> zakim, start meeting
13:45:36 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
13:45:39 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), Rachael
13:45:57 <Rachael> title: December AG Facilitator's meeting
13:46:24 <Rachael> agenda+ Check progress on gathering communication requirements:https://www.w3.org/wiki/AG_Communication_Requirements
13:46:44 <Rachael> agenda+ Check in on cross-group communication dashboard https://www.w3.org/wiki/WAI_Group_Coordination
13:46:52 <Rachael> agenda+ AG Status update
13:47:02 <Rachael> agenda+ task force updates and discussion
13:47:08 <Rachael> agenda+ new business and action review
13:57:41 <MichaelC> MichaelC has joined #ag-facilitators
14:01:42 <jeanne> jeanne has joined #ag-facilitators
14:02:48 <Rachael> zakim, take up item 1
14:02:48 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Check progress on gathering communication requirements:https://www.w3.org/wiki/AG_Communication_Requirements -- taken up [from Rachael]
14:02:58 <Wilco> Wilco has joined #ag-facilitators
14:03:01 <Wilco> agenda?
14:03:02 <jon_avila> jon_avila has joined #ag-facilitators
14:03:08 <Rain> Rain has joined #ag-facilitators
14:03:09 <Wilco> zakim, take up next
14:03:09 <Zakim> agendum 1 was just opened, Wilco
14:03:15 <jon_avila> present+jon_avila
14:03:17 <Rain> present+
14:03:21 <Wilco> present+
14:03:22 <jeanne> present+
14:03:24 <Wilco> scribe: Wilco
14:03:41 <Rachael> present+
14:03:43 <MichaelC> present+
14:03:52 <Wilco> Rachael: We created a wiki for communication. Question is where are we?
14:04:00 <Rachael> https://www.w3.org/wiki/AG_Communication_Requirements
14:05:08 <Rain> q+
14:05:10 <Wilco> Michael: Seems there are two types of requirements. What the working group needs, and what those who have requirements need to make them achieveable
14:06:12 <Rachael> ack Rain
14:06:54 <Wilco> Rain: Similar to Michael, something may be missing. Maybe communication, including a clear list of what the TF is waiting for from other groups.
14:07:11 <Wilco> Rachael: I'll make edits
14:07:21 <Rachael> q?
14:07:26 <Wilco> ... Does it make sense to say requester / receiver?
14:07:28 <Rain> +1 to that change
14:07:56 <Wilco> Michael: I struggle with those terms. Perhaps communicator and receiver?
14:08:39 <Wilco> ... Are we talking about proactive or reactive communication? Proactive doesn't have a requester.
14:09:46 <Wilco> ... For me this would be a proactivity plan. We've been doing this reactively. If we did it proactive we can say for sure where to find minutes.
14:10:05 <Wilco> ... I think that's what this should lead towards
14:10:07 <Rachael> q?
14:10:22 <Wilco> q+
14:10:35 <Rachael> ack Wilco
14:10:49 <MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/2021/09/01-ag-facilitators-minutes
14:10:52 <Rachael> Wilco: I'm not entirely clear on what we are trying to accomplish, what problem we are trying to solve
14:11:03 <Wilco> Wilco: I'm not clear what the job to be done is. What problem are we solving?
14:11:44 <Wilco> Michael: I propose we put this to my todo list, I'll have a date in a few months to look at it.
14:11:59 <Wilco> ... A couple things will have been in place by then.
14:11:59 <jon_avila> No objections
14:12:00 <Rain> +1 thank you, Michael
14:12:04 <Wilco> Rachael: Any objection?
14:12:05 <Wilco> 0
14:12:23 <Rachael> zakim, take up next item
14:12:23 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Check in on cross-group communication dashboard https://www.w3.org/wiki/WAI_Group_Coordination -- taken up [from Rachael]
14:12:48 <Rain> q+
14:12:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/12/13-ag-facilitators-minutes.html MichaelC
14:13:04 <Rachael> ack Rain
14:13:15 <Wilco> Rachael: How is this working for everyone?
14:13:33 <Wilco> Rain: I don't check it as often as I should. How do we find the balance between something that's clear.
14:13:55 <Wilco> ... The e-mail reminders are great. My own challenge is that I'm not following up. That's more on me than on the tool.
14:13:57 <Wilco> q+
14:14:10 <Rachael> ack Wilco
14:14:47 <Rachael> Wilco: I haven't looked at this. My communication happens elsewhere. I don't need a table.
14:15:04 <Rachael> q?
14:15:16 <Wilco> Rachael: It sounds like it's helpful for some, but not for others. It's nice to have a list, but we need to keep it up to date
14:15:37 <Wilco> Jon: It's nice to see what others are up to, but I haven't had a lot of time to look at other requests.
14:16:10 <Wilco> Jeanne: I check it when the e-mail is sent. Haven't had much listed for Silver.
14:16:31 <Wilco> ... I communicate with facilitators I need to work with. I regularly talk to Wilco and Kim.
14:16:41 <Wilco> ... Feel I'm connected when I have things to do.
14:17:32 <Wilco> Rachael: We ran this as an experiment. COGA had an experiment like this.
14:17:54 <Wilco> Rain: We have to maintain it. Since we're not, it's not super valuable. That's the challenge.
14:18:22 <Rachael> stawpoll: Option 1: Stop using the table Option 2: Revise process and try another month Option 3: Something else
14:18:31 <Wilco> 1
14:18:46 <Rain> 1 with the idea that we'll see what happens with the Newsletter idea that Michael is working on
14:19:00 <jon_avila> +0
14:19:04 <jeanne> 0
14:19:32 <Wilco> Rachael: Lets stop. Is there anything on the table that needs to be addressed?
14:19:47 <jeanne> mark it as no longer maintained and out of date
14:20:30 <Rachael> zakim, take up next item
14:20:30 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- AG Status update -- taken up [from Rachael]
14:21:05 <Wilco> Rachael: We're almost through WCAG 2.1, we'll try to have another meeting December 21st.
14:21:26 <Wilco> ... The coming meeting will be a year wrap-up / retrospective. We've asked an outside facilitator to come in.
14:21:52 <Wilco> ... Please come to that meeting to provide feedback.
14:22:00 <jon_avila> q+
14:22:07 <Rachael> ack jon_avila
14:22:10 <Wilco> q+
14:22:20 <Wilco> Jon: Are we on track for WCAG 2.2 in March?
14:22:37 <Wilco> Rachael: We're aiming for June, but hoping to be on time for March.
14:23:01 <Wilco> Michael: Alastair has the answers on that.
14:23:34 <Wilco> Rachael: We're done with reviews. We have 3 surveys to close out. Then all major issues are done.
14:23:43 <Kim_patch> Kim_patch has joined #ag-facilitators
14:23:53 <Wilco> ... We have AAA implementations signed up. We have to make sure the old implementations are still valid.
14:23:59 <Rachael> ack Wilco
14:24:08 <Rachael> wilco: Is there any progress on WCAG2ICT
14:24:22 <Wilco> Rachael: We're still looking for a co-chair.
14:24:48 <Wilco> Michael: I know Judy was involved in something recently related to it. It didn't seem like it was happening on the immediate term.
14:25:19 <Wilco> ... There's a need for a facilitator and work statement.
14:25:33 <Rachael> q?
14:26:03 <Rachael> zakim, take up next item
14:26:04 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- task force updates and discussion -- taken up [from Rachael]
14:27:05 <Rachael> Wilco: AG approved a bunch of rules last week. We are working on a draft update for ACT rules format. Not chartered to do so. We are defining what an ACT implementation is.
14:27:38 <Rachael> ...On hold for publishing new content because the WAI redesign has not been approved. All content is designed for the new templates so on hold till then.
14:27:47 <MichaelC> q+
14:28:07 <Rachael> ...working with Silver with reliable testing. Recently put out a document approved by AG for internal use.
14:28:19 <MichaelC> ack me
14:28:19 <Rachael> ack MichaelC
14:28:42 <Kim_patch> +present
14:29:07 <Wilco> Michael: Don't know the full status on redesign. I've seen templates. I'm part-way through that. Hopefully it will be done today, so it can be deployed this week. Either Wednesday or after the holidays.
14:29:46 <Wilco> ... It's completely separate from others. The ACT rules were one of those. There should be something from Daniel
14:29:52 <Rachael> Wilco: will check today
14:30:37 <Wilco> Michael: We're not yet publishing WCAG 2.0 TR documents, those come early next year.
14:31:27 <Wilco> Rain: We're updating our work statement. We'll continue refining. Lisa is leading literary review on mental health.
14:31:30 <MichaelC> i/Michael: We/subtopic: Tangent on WCAG support material redesign status/
14:31:50 <Wilco> ... We've been reviewing documents from APA. We've given preliminary feedback.
14:32:12 <Wilco> ... We received documents from Mobile TF. It's on our agenda to review what they've put together.
14:32:37 <Wilco> ... We're also looking at EO documents to review.
14:33:24 <Wilco> ... We're working on two outcomes for Silver, with a number of methods. We'll connect more closely with Silver. We're ready to engage.
14:33:49 <Wilco> ... The community group is picking up steam and is becoming active. We have people working on reports on what things are helpful.
14:34:24 <Wilco> ... We're helping the CG find its own chairs, rather than have it be part of the TF.
14:34:40 <Rachael> q?
14:35:25 <Wilco> Jon: We're going to have researchers on our call, putting the invitation out in case someone is interested. It's not AG wide.
14:36:02 <Wilco> ... We continue to have challenges on how to split out contrast guidance. It's something Alastair will come back and discuss with us.
14:37:07 <Wilco> ... The group is working on other guidance not related to contrast, but not ready to be reviewed.
14:37:16 <jeanne> q+
14:37:24 <Rachael> ack jeanne
14:37:50 <Wilco> Jeanne: Do you think we should remove the example outcome for the time being?
14:38:06 <Wilco> Jon: I don't know? There are some good aspects to that. But there's a copyright discussion too.
14:38:07 <Wilco> q+
14:38:25 <Rachael> q+
14:38:37 <Wilco> ... We need someone else to validate it. I would mark it, to indicate it hasn't been vetted fully.
14:38:46 <Rachael> ack Wilco
14:38:52 <Wilco> Jeanne: Mark it as exploritory?
14:39:05 <Wilco> Jon: I think that's fine. The concept seems good, but I'm not qualified to comment on the math.
14:39:14 <Wilco> Rachael: We have to get the marking.
14:39:19 <Rachael> q-
14:39:52 <Rachael> Wilco: I got a message this morning with a request to use this new algorythm. If we don't think this is ready to go into tools, either because of copyright issues or becuase its not stable we should do something
14:39:57 <Rachael> q+
14:40:04 <Wilco> Jon: Agreed, we need to make sure things are checked off.
14:40:11 <Rachael> ack Rachael
14:40:34 <Wilco> Rachael: I'm also inclined to remove it. I'm seeing a lot of momentum, and I don't feel we've done the testing yet.
14:40:56 <Wilco> Jeanne: We just published.
14:41:14 <Wilco> Rachael: We have an update with markings coming. Lets have a more detailed meeting on this after the holidays.
14:41:24 <Wilco> Wilco: Seems good
14:41:50 <Wilco> Jeanne: I'm feeling some urgency about this. There is a lot of publicity about this.
14:42:17 <Wilco> ... I wonder if we could mark the methods, outcomes, how-to page as exploratory.
14:42:37 <Wilco> Michael: I can add that fairly easily to them.
14:43:19 <Wilco> Jeanne: Andy's PRs are all on an old prototype. I'm nervous about waiting until after the holidays.
14:43:48 <jon_avila> q?
14:44:19 <Wilco> Jon: This is not part of what LV is currently doing. I feel it's not officially under anything right now.
14:45:06 <Rachael> Next Steps: Rachael to start email conversation about markup on secondary pages and then meet after holidays to discuss removing it.
14:45:27 <Kim_patch> Sorry – had to drop for another brief meeting – I give an update now
14:46:11 <Wilco> Kim: Mobile is working with Jeanne on the template. We have a researcher who wants to join.
14:46:33 <Wilco> ... She's from Australia. We're talking about changing the time.
14:47:04 <Wilco> ... We're also putting together some spread sheets to serve as baseline information for mobile features and how they effect everything.
14:47:21 <Wilco> ... We're planning a joint meeting with the mini apps TF.
14:47:49 <Rachael> q?
14:48:22 <Wilco> Jeanne: We're making forward progress. Finally published the updates from last summer.
14:48:53 <Wilco> ... We have a good schedule for getting work done. I don't think we've addressed our issues with AG, and how to get more aggressive forward momentum.
14:49:28 <Wilco> ... Hoping a lot from the meeting tomorrow. A lot of our issues come from Silver wanting to work from a more agile process, and AG wanting more of a waterfall process.
14:50:05 <Wilco> ... The issue we have with people wanting to implement the contrast method. It illustrates the need for caution, but also for publishing.
14:50:09 <Rachael> q+
14:50:18 <Rachael> q-
14:50:36 <Rachael> zakim, take up next item?
14:50:36 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, Rachael.
14:50:44 <Rachael> agenda?
14:50:58 <Rachael> zakim, take up item 5
14:50:58 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- new business and action review -- taken up [from Rachael]
14:51:00 <Wilco> q+
14:51:37 <Rachael> Wilco: The issue of lacking members keeps coming up. Recruiting inside AG doesnt' work all that well. Should we discuss it more?
14:51:56 <Rachael> Rachael: Agenda item for next meet
14:52:22 <Rachael> s/meet/meeting
14:52:29 <Wilco> zakim, end meeting
14:52:29 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been jon_avila, Rain, Wilco, jeanne, Rachael, MichaelC, present
14:52:31 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
14:52:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/12/13-ag-facilitators-minutes.html Zakim
14:52:34 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, Wilco; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
14:52:38 <Zakim> Zakim has left #ag-facilitators
14:56:02 <Wilco> RRSAgent, bye
14:56:02 <RRSAgent> I see no action items