IRC log of i18n on 2021-12-02

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:48:19 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #i18n
14:48:19 [RRSAgent]
logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/12/02-i18n-irc
14:48:25 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #i18n
14:48:34 [addison]
trackbot, prepare teleconference
14:48:37 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
14:48:40 [trackbot]
Meeting: Internationalization Working Group Teleconference
14:48:40 [trackbot]
Date: 02 December 2021
14:48:46 [agendabot]
agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2021Nov/0040.html
14:48:46 [agendabot]
clear agenda
14:48:46 [agendabot]
agenda+ Agenda Review
14:48:46 [agendabot]
agenda+ Action Items
14:48:47 [agendabot]
agenda+ Info Share
14:48:49 [agendabot]
agenda+ RADAR Review
14:48:51 [agendabot]
agenda+ Security issues in bidi
14:48:53 [agendabot]
agenda+ Radar Assignments
14:48:56 [agendabot]
agenda+ IFT Review
14:48:58 [agendabot]
agenda+ AOB?
14:49:10 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/12/02-i18n-minutes.html addison
14:49:10 [addison]
Chair: Addison Phillips
14:51:53 [xfq]
xfq has joined #i18n
14:54:49 [addison]
present+ Addison
14:54:57 [addison]
present+ Fuqiao
14:59:37 [addison]
present+ Atsushi
15:02:26 [addison]
present+ Bert
15:03:30 [Bert]
scribe+
15:03:56 [addison]
agenda?
15:04:12 [addison]
zakim, take up agendum 1
15:04:12 [Zakim]
agendum 1 -- Agenda Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:04:54 [Bert]
atsushi: Ishi-san is preparaing a document summarizing OpenType features.
15:05:13 [xfq]
s/Ishi/Ishii/
15:05:39 [Bert]
... To bring it to jlreq docs, and maybe to i18n WG
15:05:56 [addison]
agenda+ Localizable strings
15:06:45 [JcK]
JcK has joined #i18n
15:08:03 [JcK]
present+ JcK
15:08:30 [Bert]
atsushi: speech input at OS level. Device tag exposed to JavaScript?
15:08:33 [addison]
zakim, take up agendum 2
15:08:33 [Zakim]
agendum 2 -- Action Items -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:08:41 [addison]
https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open
15:08:44 [Bert]
addison: We can talk about that under localizable strings.
15:09:12 [addison]
action-1093?
15:09:12 [trackbot]
action-1093 -- Addison Phillips to Ping localizable thread and seek to resolve next steps with whatwg -- due 2021-11-11 -- OPEN
15:09:12 [trackbot]
https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1093
15:09:54 [Bert]
addison: Looked at issue related to 1093 yesterday. Will talk about it later.
15:09:57 [addison]
action-1094?
15:09:57 [trackbot]
action-1094 -- Addison Phillips to Start conversation with ecma-402 et al about webidl work -- due 2021-11-11 -- OPEN
15:09:57 [trackbot]
https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1094
15:10:37 [addison]
action-1096?
15:10:37 [trackbot]
action-1096 -- Fuqiao Xue to Ping jck about link to bcp47 -- due 2021-11-25 -- OPEN
15:10:37 [trackbot]
https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1096
15:10:45 [Bert]
addison: Had a couple of emails about 1094, we'll talk about it later.
15:10:56 [JcK]
Actually IANA, but...
15:11:00 [addison]
close action-1096
15:11:00 [trackbot]
Closed action-1096.
15:11:05 [addison]
agenda+ BCP47 reference
15:11:13 [Bert]
xfq: Exchanged with John about 1096.
15:11:19 [Bert]
Will be an agenda item
15:12:07 [Bert]
action-1099?
15:12:07 [trackbot]
action-1099 -- Fuqiao Xue to File errata on json-ld @direction null example -- due 2021-11-25 -- OPEN
15:12:07 [trackbot]
https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1099
15:12:23 [addison]
agenda+ discuss action 1099
15:12:37 [Bert]
xfq: Not yet, but not yet sure I understand the problem. Can we make it an agenda item?
15:12:56 [addison]
zakim, take up agendum 3
15:12:56 [Zakim]
agendum 3 -- Info Share -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:13:36 [r12a]
https://www.w3.org/International/i18n-tests/#test_rigs
15:13:36 [Bert]
r12a: CSS internationalization tests
15:14:06 [Bert]
... for text-transform and line alignement (first line indent)
15:14:31 [Bert]
... and for letter-spacing and word-spacing
15:15:14 [Bert]
xfq: There is a 'text-spacing' property, too, in css-text-4.
15:15:33 [Bert]
r12a: That is another one to add, then.
15:15:45 [Bert]
q+ to infoshare
15:16:23 [Bert]
JcK: IETF figured out that @@ into ASCII
15:16:58 [Bert]
... Not as bad as rendering Swedish å as ae, etc.
15:17:24 [Bert]
addison: Use UTF-8 instead? :-)
15:17:29 [addison]
ack Bert
15:17:29 [Zakim]
Bert, you wanted to infoshare
15:18:14 [addison]
bert: has become liaison to geospatial group in iso
15:18:27 [addison]
zakim, take up agendum 4
15:18:27 [Zakim]
agendum 4 -- RADAR Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:18:29 [Bert]
Bert: I've become liaison to ISO TC 211 WG4 and the EU's INSPIRE.
15:18:38 [addison]
https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1
15:19:31 [Bert]
addison: There wer some transition requests. I may need to nag some groups.
15:19:58 [Bert]
xfq: NAUR is related to our work. Not requested a review yet.
15:20:35 [Bert]
.. From the APA WG.
15:20:35 [addison]
action: addison: send email to NAUR asking after early review
15:20:36 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-1101 - Send email to naur asking after early review [on Addison Phillips - due 2021-12-09].
15:20:41 [addison]
agenda?
15:20:58 [addison]
zakim, take up agendum 11
15:20:58 [Zakim]
agendum 11 -- discuss action 1099 -- taken up [from addison]
15:21:18 [xfq]
https://www.w3.org/TR/2020/REC-json-ld11-20200716/#example-77-overriding-default-language-and-default-base-direction-using-an-expanded-value
15:21:57 [Bert]
xfq: We discussed 2 weeks ago about this.
15:22:11 [Bert]
... When I looked at it again, I wasn't sure to understand.
15:22:39 [Bert]
addison: The @direction is null for some reason.
15:22:56 [Bert]
xfq: Seems it should be rtl, like the global direction.
15:23:15 [Bert]
addison: The same as the @context's direction.
15:23:54 [Bert]
xfq:So are we requesting something about the @direction in "author"? Should it be "rtl"?
15:24:26 [Bert]
r12a: There are several similar ones. Maybe not as problematic as I thought.
15:24:43 [Bert]
addison: The "null" points to...
15:24:59 [Bert]
xfq: Means a lack of value.
15:25:52 [addison]
close action-1099
15:25:52 [trackbot]
Closed action-1099.
15:25:53 [Bert]
addison: Maybe it is not an issue then.
15:26:07 [addison]
zakim, take up agendum 10
15:26:07 [Zakim]
agendum 10 -- BCP47 reference -- taken up [from addison]
15:27:05 [Bert]
JcK: I brought it to the attention of IANA and IETF applications area director.
15:27:30 [Bert]
... IANA ability to do things is limited.
15:28:25 [Bert]
... If the issue is to write a spec, they can do it. If it is to put a stamp of approval on somethinhg, they cannot do that.
15:28:59 [Bert]
... So I'm back to not understanding the problem.
15:29:27 [Bert]
addison: xfq referrred to the fact that the tools link was broken.
15:29:59 [Bert]
JcK: W3C's guidance on how to refer to the tools needs to be rewritten.
15:30:19 [Bert]
addison: So the link has to go to rfc-editor.
15:30:25 [addison]
https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/bcp47
15:31:04 [Bert]
xfq: So we can refer to BCP47 with that link. Another issue is that we have links to a specific section of BCP47.
15:31:15 [Bert]
... No way to refer to sections.
15:31:54 [Bert]
addison: So we can refer to the RFC instead of the BCP.
15:32:36 [Bert]
JcK: Refer to "BCP47 ... currently RFC... " etc.
15:33:19 [Bert]
addison: Do we fix the xref database, so it gets into bikeshed etc.?
15:33:59 [addison]
action: xfq: update bcp47 specific section references in articles
15:33:59 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-1102 - Update bcp47 specific section references in articles [on Fuqiao Xue - due 2021-12-09].
15:34:04 [Bert]
xfq: Those links have already been changed to rfc-editor. We just need to do it in our articles.
15:35:02 [addison]
agenda?
15:35:19 [addison]
zakim, take up agendum 9
15:35:19 [Zakim]
agendum 9 -- Localizable strings -- taken up [from addison]
15:36:09 [Bert]
addison: I saw mail, I should have more to report next week.
15:36:26 [Bert]
r12a: Is this because of Dom's email?
15:36:56 [Bert]
addison: We have comments on a bunch of specs. WebIDL said they are modeled on JavaScript and we should ge there.
15:37:14 [Bert]
... I started that conversation, but don't expect rapid progress.
15:37:54 [Bert]
... My udnerstanding is a new localizable string type could take a few years.
15:38:33 [Bert]
... That still leaves the question what we do with current specs.
15:39:03 [Bert]
... Should they still model localizable strings as strings?
15:39:28 [Bert]
r12a: Dom wants to hear from us soon, for an upcoming transition.
15:39:45 [Bert]
addison: Where is his email?
15:40:16 [Bert]
xfq: It was to Philippe, r12a and me only.
15:40:42 [Bert]
addison: If you add me to it, I'll try to reply.
15:40:54 [Bert]
... What do we want to reply?
15:41:34 [Bert]
... That we currently don't mind? But I'm not hopeful that we'll get a JavaScript type soon.
15:41:58 [Bert]
... Or propose that they build a datstructure?
15:42:10 [Bert]
s/datstructure/datastructure/
15:42:51 [Bert]
addison: Ask the TAG? It seems a web platform issue.
15:43:06 [Bert]
r12a: Maybe a good idea...
15:43:28 [addison]
action: addison: file issue with TAG to discuss fate of lang/dir metadata and prepare explainer
15:43:28 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-1103 - File issue with tag to discuss fate of lang/dir metadata and prepare explainer [on Addison Phillips - due 2021-12-09].
15:43:53 [addison]
zakim, take up agendum 7
15:43:53 [Zakim]
agendum 7 -- IFT Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:44:14 [Bert]
r12a: We should also contact Dom quickly.
15:44:27 [Bert]
addison: Can you put me on that thread?
15:44:41 [addison]
action: addison: respond to Dom's thread after xfq forwards note
15:44:42 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-1104 - Respond to dom's thread after xfq forwards note [on Addison Phillips - due 2021-12-09].
15:44:46 [Bert]
xfq: will do.
15:45:38 [Bert]
atsushi: There were several updates to the doc, but I didn't have time to check them yet.
15:45:47 [xfq]
rrsagent, make minutes
15:45:47 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/12/02-i18n-minutes.html xfq
15:47:18 [Bert]
... subsetting fonts with ligatures and punctuation. I asked them some quesstions.
15:47:33 [Bert]
addison: Is it a question of the wrong terminology?
15:48:01 [Bert]
atsushi: There are several pull requests about changing terminology, but I haven't looked at them yet.
15:48:15 [Bert]
addison: You need somebody else to look at them?
15:48:43 [Bert]
atsushi: I'd like some time to draft my comments.
15:49:03 [Bert]
addison: Could you create an issue in time for next week's call.
15:49:13 [Bert]
atsushi: There is one issue already.
15:49:15 [atsushi]
https://github.com/w3c/IFT/issues/41#issuecomment-964569925
15:49:37 [atsushi]
https://github.com/w3c/IFT/pull/53/files
15:50:02 [Bert]
... and a related patch ^^
15:51:53 [Bert]
addison: The comment from Garret on the issue above seems reasonable.
15:52:36 [Bert]
... I'd be surprised if the font people didn't understand the issues.
15:55:08 [addison]
action:atsushi: draft text about IFT glyph/codepoint issue
15:55:41 [Bert]
atsushi: There are implementations, which could be used to provide more details.
15:55:46 [atsushi]
action: atsushi: draft text about IFT glyph/codepoint issue
15:55:47 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-1105 - Draft text about ift glyph/codepoint issue [on Atsushi Shimono - due 2021-12-09].
15:57:09 [addison]
zakim, take up agendum 8
15:57:09 [Zakim]
agendum 8 -- AOB? -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:57:32 [Bert]
addison: I glanced at the calendar:
15:58:02 [Bert]
... are people away on Thursdays near the end of the year?
15:58:42 [Bert]
r12a: I'll be out on the 23rd and the 30th. Maybe also on Jan the 6th.
15:59:13 [Bert]
JcK: Probably best to skip 23 and 30.
15:59:31 [Bert]
I'll be out on the 30th, probably on the 23rd.
16:00:28 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/12/02-i18n-minutes.html addison
16:00:45 [Bert]
s/I'll be out on the 30th, probably on the 23rd./<Bert> I'll be out on the 30th, probably on the 23rd
16:00:47 [addison]
present+ Richard
16:00:54 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/12/02-i18n-minutes.html addison