14:48:19 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #i18n
14:48:19 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/12/02-i18n-irc
14:48:25 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #i18n
14:48:34 <addison> trackbot, prepare teleconference
14:48:37 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:48:40 <trackbot> Meeting: Internationalization Working Group Teleconference
14:48:40 <trackbot> Date: 02 December 2021
14:48:46 <agendabot> agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2021Nov/0040.html
14:48:46 <agendabot> clear agenda
14:48:46 <agendabot> agenda+ Agenda Review
14:48:46 <agendabot> agenda+ Action Items
14:48:47 <agendabot> agenda+ Info Share
14:48:49 <agendabot> agenda+ RADAR Review
14:48:51 <agendabot> agenda+ Security issues in bidi
14:48:53 <agendabot> agenda+ Radar Assignments
14:48:56 <agendabot> agenda+ IFT Review
14:48:58 <agendabot> agenda+ AOB?
14:49:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/12/02-i18n-minutes.html addison
14:49:10 <addison> Chair: Addison Phillips
14:51:53 <xfq> xfq has joined #i18n
14:54:49 <addison> present+ Addison
14:54:57 <addison> present+ Fuqiao
14:59:37 <addison> present+ Atsushi
15:02:26 <addison> present+ Bert
15:03:30 <Bert> scribe+
15:03:56 <addison> agenda?
15:04:12 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 1
15:04:12 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Agenda Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:04:54 <Bert> atsushi: Ishi-san is preparaing a document summarizing OpenType features.
15:05:13 <xfq> s/Ishi/Ishii/
15:05:39 <Bert> ... To bring it to jlreq docs, and maybe to i18n WG
15:05:56 <addison> agenda+ Localizable strings
15:06:45 <JcK> JcK has joined #i18n
15:08:03 <JcK> present+ JcK
15:08:30 <Bert> atsushi: speech input at OS level. Device tag exposed to JavaScript?
15:08:33 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 2
15:08:33 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Action Items -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:08:41 <addison> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open
15:08:44 <Bert> addison: We can talk about that under localizable strings.
15:09:12 <addison> action-1093?
15:09:12 <trackbot> action-1093 -- Addison Phillips to Ping localizable thread and seek to resolve next steps with whatwg -- due 2021-11-11 -- OPEN
15:09:12 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1093
15:09:54 <Bert> addison: Looked at issue related to 1093 yesterday. Will talk about it later.
15:09:57 <addison> action-1094?
15:09:57 <trackbot> action-1094 -- Addison Phillips to Start conversation with ecma-402 et al about webidl work -- due 2021-11-11 -- OPEN
15:09:57 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1094
15:10:37 <addison> action-1096?
15:10:37 <trackbot> action-1096 -- Fuqiao Xue to Ping jck about link to bcp47 -- due 2021-11-25 -- OPEN
15:10:37 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1096
15:10:45 <Bert> addison: Had a couple of emails about 1094, we'll talk about it later.
15:10:56 <JcK> Actually IANA, but...
15:11:00 <addison> close action-1096
15:11:00 <trackbot> Closed action-1096.
15:11:05 <addison> agenda+ BCP47 reference
15:11:13 <Bert> xfq: Exchanged with John about 1096.
15:11:19 <Bert> Will be an agenda item
15:12:07 <Bert> action-1099?
15:12:07 <trackbot> action-1099 -- Fuqiao Xue to File errata on json-ld @direction null example -- due 2021-11-25 -- OPEN
15:12:07 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1099
15:12:23 <addison> agenda+ discuss action 1099
15:12:37 <Bert> xfq: Not yet, but not yet sure I understand the problem. Can we make it an agenda item?
15:12:56 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 3
15:12:56 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Info Share -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:13:36 <r12a> https://www.w3.org/International/i18n-tests/#test_rigs
15:13:36 <Bert> r12a: CSS internationalization tests
15:14:06 <Bert> ... for text-transform and line alignement (first line indent)
15:14:31 <Bert> ... and for letter-spacing and word-spacing
15:15:14 <Bert> xfq: There is a 'text-spacing' property, too, in css-text-4.
15:15:33 <Bert> r12a: That is another one to add, then.
15:15:45 <Bert> q+ to infoshare
15:16:23 <Bert> JcK: IETF figured out that @@ into ASCII
15:16:58 <Bert> ... Not as bad as rendering Swedish å as ae, etc.
15:17:24 <Bert> addison: Use UTF-8 instead? :-)
15:17:29 <addison> ack Bert
15:17:29 <Zakim> Bert, you wanted to infoshare
15:18:14 <addison> bert: has become liaison to geospatial group in iso
15:18:27 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 4
15:18:27 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- RADAR Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:18:29 <Bert> Bert: I've become liaison to ISO TC 211 WG4 and the EU's INSPIRE.
15:18:38 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1
15:19:31 <Bert> addison: There wer some transition requests. I may need to nag some groups.
15:19:58 <Bert> xfq: NAUR is related to our work. Not requested a review yet.
15:20:35 <Bert> .. From the APA WG.
15:20:35 <addison> action: addison: send email to NAUR asking after early review
15:20:36 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1101 - Send email to naur asking after early review [on Addison Phillips - due 2021-12-09].
15:20:41 <addison> agenda?
15:20:58 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 11
15:20:58 <Zakim> agendum 11 -- discuss action 1099 -- taken up [from addison]
15:21:18 <xfq> https://www.w3.org/TR/2020/REC-json-ld11-20200716/#example-77-overriding-default-language-and-default-base-direction-using-an-expanded-value
15:21:57 <Bert> xfq: We discussed 2 weeks ago about this.
15:22:11 <Bert> ... When I looked at it again, I wasn't sure to understand.
15:22:39 <Bert> addison: The @direction is null for some reason.
15:22:56 <Bert> xfq: Seems it should be rtl, like the global direction.
15:23:15 <Bert> addison: The same as the @context's direction.
15:23:54 <Bert> xfq:So are we requesting something about the @direction in "author"? Should it be "rtl"?
15:24:26 <Bert> r12a: There are several similar ones. Maybe not as problematic as I thought.
15:24:43 <Bert> addison: The "null" points to...
15:24:59 <Bert> xfq: Means a lack of value.
15:25:52 <addison> close action-1099
15:25:52 <trackbot> Closed action-1099.
15:25:53 <Bert> addison: Maybe it is not an issue then.
15:26:07 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 10
15:26:07 <Zakim> agendum 10 -- BCP47 reference -- taken up [from addison]
15:27:05 <Bert> JcK: I brought it to the attention of IANA and IETF applications area director.
15:27:30 <Bert> ... IANA ability to do things is limited.
15:28:25 <Bert> ... If the issue is to write a spec, they can do it. If it is to put a stamp of approval on somethinhg, they cannot do that.
15:28:59 <Bert> ... So I'm back to not understanding the problem.
15:29:27 <Bert> addison: xfq referrred to the fact that the tools link was broken.
15:29:59 <Bert> JcK: W3C's guidance on how to refer to the tools needs to be rewritten.
15:30:19 <Bert> addison: So the link has to go to rfc-editor.
15:30:25 <addison> https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/bcp47
15:31:04 <Bert> xfq: So we can refer to BCP47 with that link. Another issue is that we have links to a specific section of BCP47.
15:31:15 <Bert> ... No way to refer to sections.
15:31:54 <Bert> addison: So we can refer to the RFC instead of the BCP.
15:32:36 <Bert> JcK: Refer to "BCP47 ... currently RFC... " etc.
15:33:19 <Bert> addison: Do we fix the xref database, so it gets into bikeshed etc.?
15:33:59 <addison> action: xfq: update bcp47 specific section references in articles
15:33:59 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1102 - Update bcp47 specific section references in articles [on Fuqiao Xue - due 2021-12-09].
15:34:04 <Bert> xfq: Those links have already been changed to rfc-editor. We just need to do it in our articles.
15:35:02 <addison> agenda?
15:35:19 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 9
15:35:19 <Zakim> agendum 9 -- Localizable strings -- taken up [from addison]
15:36:09 <Bert> addison: I saw mail, I should have more to report next week.
15:36:26 <Bert> r12a: Is this because of Dom's email?
15:36:56 <Bert> addison: We have comments on a bunch of specs. WebIDL said they are modeled on JavaScript and we should ge there.
15:37:14 <Bert> ... I started that conversation, but don't expect rapid progress.
15:37:54 <Bert> ... My udnerstanding is a new localizable string type could take a few years.
15:38:33 <Bert> ... That still leaves the question what we do with current specs.
15:39:03 <Bert> ... Should they still model localizable strings as strings?
15:39:28 <Bert> r12a: Dom wants to hear from us soon, for an upcoming transition.
15:39:45 <Bert> addison: Where is his email?
15:40:16 <Bert> xfq: It was to Philippe, r12a and me only.
15:40:42 <Bert> addison: If you add me to it, I'll try to reply.
15:40:54 <Bert> ... What do we want to reply?
15:41:34 <Bert> ... That we currently don't mind? But I'm not hopeful that we'll get a JavaScript type soon.
15:41:58 <Bert> ... Or propose that they build a datstructure?
15:42:10 <Bert> s/datstructure/datastructure/
15:42:51 <Bert> addison: Ask the TAG? It seems a web platform issue.
15:43:06 <Bert> r12a: Maybe a good idea...
15:43:28 <addison> action: addison: file issue with TAG to discuss fate of lang/dir metadata and prepare explainer
15:43:28 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1103 - File issue with tag to discuss fate of lang/dir metadata and prepare explainer [on Addison Phillips - due 2021-12-09].
15:43:53 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 7
15:43:53 <Zakim> agendum 7 -- IFT Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:44:14 <Bert> r12a: We should also contact Dom quickly.
15:44:27 <Bert> addison: Can you put me on that thread?
15:44:41 <addison> action: addison: respond to Dom's thread after xfq forwards note
15:44:42 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1104 - Respond to dom's thread after xfq forwards note [on Addison Phillips - due 2021-12-09].
15:44:46 <Bert> xfq: will do.
15:45:38 <Bert> atsushi: There were several updates to the doc, but I didn't have time to check them yet.
15:45:47 <xfq> rrsagent, make minutes
15:45:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/12/02-i18n-minutes.html xfq
15:47:18 <Bert> ... subsetting fonts with ligatures and punctuation. I asked them some quesstions.
15:47:33 <Bert> addison: Is it a question of the wrong terminology?
15:48:01 <Bert> atsushi: There are several pull requests about changing terminology, but I haven't looked at them yet.
15:48:15 <Bert> addison: You need somebody else to look at them?
15:48:43 <Bert> atsushi: I'd like some time to draft my comments.
15:49:03 <Bert> addison: Could you create an issue in time for next week's call.
15:49:13 <Bert> atsushi: There is one issue already.
15:49:15 <atsushi> https://github.com/w3c/IFT/issues/41#issuecomment-964569925
15:49:37 <atsushi> https://github.com/w3c/IFT/pull/53/files
15:50:02 <Bert> ... and a related patch ^^
15:51:53 <Bert> addison: The comment from Garret on the issue above seems reasonable.
15:52:36 <Bert> ... I'd be surprised if the font people didn't understand the issues.
15:55:08 <addison> action:atsushi: draft text about IFT glyph/codepoint issue
15:55:41 <Bert> atsushi: There are implementations, which could be used to provide more details.
15:55:46 <atsushi> action: atsushi: draft text about IFT glyph/codepoint issue
15:55:47 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1105 - Draft text about ift glyph/codepoint issue [on Atsushi Shimono - due 2021-12-09].
15:57:09 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 8
15:57:09 <Zakim> agendum 8 -- AOB? -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:57:32 <Bert> addison: I glanced at the calendar:
15:58:02 <Bert> ... are people away on Thursdays near the end of the year?
15:58:42 <Bert> r12a: I'll be out on the 23rd and the 30th. Maybe also on Jan the 6th.
15:59:13 <Bert> JcK: Probably best to skip 23 and 30.
15:59:31 <Bert> I'll be out on the 30th, probably on the 23rd.
16:00:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/12/02-i18n-minutes.html addison
16:00:45 <Bert> s/I'll be out on the 30th, probably on the 23rd./<Bert> I'll be out on the 30th, probably on the 23rd
16:00:47 <addison> present+ Richard
16:00:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/12/02-i18n-minutes.html addison