15:08:05 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wot-td
15:08:06 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/12/01-wot-td-irc
15:08:11 <kaz> meeting: WoT-WG - TD-TF
15:08:36 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Daniel_Peintner, Ege_Korkan, Jan_Romann, Michael_McCool, Sebastian_Kaebisch
15:09:05 <Ege> Ege has joined #wot-td
15:09:38 <kaz> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#Dec_1.2C_2021
15:10:10 <kaz> present+ Michael_Koster
15:10:45 <jan_romann> scribe: JR
15:10:58 <jan_romann> topic: Minutes
15:11:13 <kaz> scribenick: jan_mann
15:11:24 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/2021/11/24-wot-td-minutes.html Nov-24
15:11:53 <jan_romann> After going over today's agenda SK starts reviewing the minutes from last call
15:13:45 <cris_> cris_ has joined #wot-td
15:17:09 <jan_romann> SK: It probably makes sense to add a pull request topic as PRs have been discussed in the architecture section
15:17:42 <dape> dape has joined #wot-td
15:19:06 <jan_romann> As kaz currently away, SK goes to the next agenda point for now
15:19:19 <jan_romann> topic: Publication plans
15:19:30 <kaz> q+
15:19:51 <kaz> ack k
15:20:14 <jan_romann> SK: As announced in last week's call we plan to publish a new Working Draft in december
15:20:44 <jan_romann> ... I would like to do the resolution about new WD in next week
15:21:09 <jan_romann> ... then we might also have feedback from the W3C regarding a new namespace
15:21:29 <jan_romann> SK: Do have any news regarding the namespace, kaz?
15:21:39 <jan_romann> kaz: No, not yet.
15:21:57 <jan_romann> SK: I am already wainting for an email response
15:22:10 <jan_romann> kaz: I will ping them in the namespace issue on github
15:22:38 <kaz> s/in the namespace issue on github/on that email thread/
15:22:46 <jan_romann> SK: I saw that the JSON-LD working group(?) is not using years in their namespace
15:23:25 <jan_romann> ... we could do the same, as specification is "timeless"
15:23:31 <Ege> q+
15:23:36 <jan_romann> ... does not follow the pattern we agreed on before, however
15:23:50 <jan_romann> ege: I would also prefer not to have the year
15:23:53 <jan_romann> ... would be more compact
15:24:07 <kaz> q+
15:24:11 <kaz> ack e
15:24:13 <Ege> ack e
15:24:17 <jan_romann> ... it also wouldn't look outdated once version 2.0 is released
15:24:39 <jan_romann> SK: I agree, TD 1.0 looks already kind of outdated due to the 2019 year in the namespace
15:25:21 <jan_romann> kaz: Typically, namespaces are only a URI and not a URL.
15:26:34 <jan_romann> ... We already have a basic URI and can extend it based on the version number. But we could also change it as well
15:26:59 <jan_romann> ... we should discuss this with Ralph and Philipp
15:27:32 <jan_romann> SK: A year could also be an indicator of how stable a standard is
15:28:06 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/2005/07/13-nsuri Namespace URI guideline
15:28:25 <jan_romann> SK: We could invite them to one of our next call to discuss this
15:29:11 <jan_romann> SK: Would be cool to have a decision on this by next week for the new WD, which could be released before christmas then
15:29:16 <jan_romann> topic: PRs
15:29:24 <jan_romann> subtopic: PR 1264
15:29:47 <kaz> i/We could/kaz: what is important here is what kind of URI would be good to manage multiple versions of TD specs and we should look into existing W3C standards as best practices. Also we can ask Ralph and PLH for advice./
15:29:54 <kaz> i/what is/scribenick: kaz/
15:30:04 <jan_romann> cris: We discussed this in the security call and had some resolution to change this PR
15:30:15 <kaz> i/Would be/scribenick: jan_romann/
15:30:33 <jan_romann> ... We are tracking this in the security call and we hope that this PR will be ready next week
15:31:27 <kaz> zakim, who is on the call?
15:31:27 <Zakim> Present: Kaz_Ashimura, Daniel_Peintner, Ege_Korkan, Jan_Romann, Michael_McCool, Sebastian_Kaebisch, Michael_Koster
15:31:42 <jan_romann> mm: There are still a number of open discussion points
15:31:49 <kaz> present+ Cristiano_Aguzzi, Tomoaki_Mizushima
15:32:27 <jan_romann> SK: Let's have another look next week again
15:32:38 <jan_romann> subtopic: PR 1283
15:32:47 <jan_romann> SK: There is some discussion going on here
15:33:00 <jan_romann> ... had no time to look on the latest comment. Ege, do you have some news here?
15:33:18 <jan_romann> ege: I think I added some comments last week
15:34:16 <mjk> mjk has joined #wot-td
15:34:38 <jan_romann> ... I checked the RFC spec. The example in the comment is showing the query parameters for uri variables. I think we should add examples for both variants of URI variables.
15:34:59 <kaz> i|There is s|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1283 PR 1283 - update webhooks example|
15:35:09 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
15:35:13 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:35:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/12/01-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:35:31 <jan_romann> ... I added a final example with both approaches
15:36:00 <kaz> chair: Sebastian
15:36:02 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:36:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/12/01-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:36:17 <kaz> s/jan_mann/jan_romann/
15:36:18 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:36:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/12/01-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:37:00 <kaz> i/We could invite/scribenick: jan_romann/
15:37:02 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:37:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/12/01-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:38:45 <jan_romann> ... I will provide the example in a separate PR
15:38:47 <kaz> i|We discussed this in the security call|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1264 PR 1264 - Fix 948 (add OAuth2 flow examples)|
15:38:59 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:38:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/12/01-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:39:40 <jan_romann> SK: The PR in question will not be merged but Michael Lagally's comments will be taken into account
15:40:23 <jan_romann> subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1301 PR 1301
15:40:37 <jan_romann> SK: This PR is coming from the architecture call
15:41:24 <jan_romann> ... addresses the constraint that supported protocols must have an IANA registration
15:41:52 <jan_romann> ... however, many IoT protocols do not have an official registration like MQTT for example
15:42:14 <jan_romann> ... therefore I would not add this constraint to the TD specification
15:42:28 <jan_romann> ... however, I added some information regarding IANA registration to this PR
15:43:00 <jan_romann> ... making the IANA registration optional for guaranteeing a unique protocol binding
15:43:55 <jan_romann> SK: So what I am saying is: If the protocol is IANA registered we are fine. If not we can use the binding protocols as best practices
15:44:18 <jan_romann> s/binding protocols/binding templates
15:44:42 <jan_romann> ege: This is actually already part of the binding templates document
15:45:02 <jan_romann> SK: Great, could you add comment on this to the PR later?
15:45:05 <jan_romann> ege: Will do
15:45:56 <jan_romann> SK: PR is not going to be merged now, some improvements based on Ben Francis' comments will be incorporated as well as the addition by Ege
15:45:58 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:45:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/12/01-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:46:42 <jan_romann> subtopic: PR 1304
15:47:03 <jan_romann> mm: This PR removes canonicalization and updates the implementation report
15:47:14 <jan_romann> ... it also removes some tooling
15:47:42 <kaz> i|This PR|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1304 PR 1304 - Remove TD Canonicalization|
15:47:52 <jan_romann> ... I also removed the comment regarding this addition in the "New features" list
15:48:18 <jan_romann> ... I updated the list of assertions and moved it to a place where it is easier to find
15:48:32 <kaz> s|https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1301 ||
15:48:45 <jan_romann> ... there are also some cleanups regarding the JSON schema
15:48:58 <kaz> i|This PR is coming from|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1301 PR 1301 - update Section 8.3|
15:49:01 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:49:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/12/01-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:49:17 <jan_romann> ... I would propose merging this PR and see if everything renders correctly
15:50:50 <kaz> q+
15:50:50 <jan_romann> mm: Canonicalization should not go into the profile spec as it is primarily for signing. We should remove it for now and later discuss where should be re-added.
15:51:19 <jan_romann> kaz: I am okay with merging this PR
15:51:34 <jan_romann> ... we should keep the content somewhere for later usage
15:52:16 <jan_romann> mm: The content is still on Github. But moving it to its own branch and tagging it might be a good idea
15:53:46 <kaz> s/later usage/potential usage in the future/
15:54:04 <jan_romann> SK creates a new branch as a canonicalization archive
15:56:10 <kaz> s/archive/archive ("canonicalization-2021-12-01")
15:56:11 <jan_romann> topic: PR 1305
15:56:24 <jan_romann> s/topic: PR 1305/subtopic: PR 1305
15:56:38 <jan_romann> SK: Daniel found some broken links
15:56:56 <kaz> i|Daniel|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1305 PR 1305 - Fix links reported by LinkChecker|
15:56:58 <kaz> q+
15:57:28 <jan_romann> dape: Just a quick note: link checker reports some broken fragment identifiers but this seems to be an issue that can't be avoided.
15:58:17 <kaz> kaz: note that the link checker should be applied to a static HTML not a ReSpec document
15:58:23 <kaz> i/note/scribenick: kaz/
15:58:28 <kaz> scribenick: jan_romann
15:58:45 <jan_romann> SK: As there are no objections, I will merge this PR
15:58:53 <jan_romann> subtopic: PR 1306
15:59:54 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1306 PR 1306 - refactor: clarify that property can be retrieved and/or updated
15:59:58 <kaz> q-
16:00:17 <jan_romann> SK: This PR updates an assertion statement that properties can be readable and/or writable
16:01:50 <jan_romann> As there are no objections, SK proceeds with merging this PR
16:02:30 <jan_romann> dape: The are two related issues, one has to be closed automatically
16:02:45 <jan_romann> subtopic: PR 1307
16:03:21 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1307 PR 1307 - fix observable default assumption in Example 4
16:03:34 <jan_romann> SK: This PR adds observable to the list of default values in example 4
16:04:10 <jan_romann> ... somehow a change from another branch was included initially, I removed it
16:04:42 <jan_romann> As there are no objections, SK proceeds with merging this PR
16:05:23 <jan_romann> The resolved Issue 1293 is closed manually by SK
16:05:39 <jan_romann> subtopic: PR 1308
16:06:22 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1308 PR 1308 - Fix roundtripping with language tags
16:06:58 <jan_romann> SK: This PR is quite new. I need some more time and would propose to postpone it
16:07:18 <jan_romann> subtopic: PR 1xxx
16:08:09 <jan_romann> SK: This PR introduces some more subsections under security definitions and forms which makes it easier to jump to these parts of the document
16:08:41 <jan_romann> ... as this PR is relatively new, should we decide this now or discuss it next week?
16:08:55 <jan_romann> s/PR 1xxx/PR 1309
16:09:22 <jan_romann> ... Maybe Ege can have a look on it and then we decide next week
16:09:30 <jan_romann> topic: Issues
16:09:45 <jan_romann> subtopic: Issue 977
16:09:48 <kaz> i|This PR in|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1309 PR 1309 - New sub-sections to improve reading in Section 6.3|
16:10:15 <jan_romann> SK: This issue deals with devices that have no static IP addresses
16:10:30 <jan_romann> ... IP addresses of things can change in a network
16:10:58 <jan_romann> ... also things could have no IP address but the TD is still valid
16:11:08 <kaz> i|This issue d|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/977 Issue 977 - Introducing assumptions about TD instances that have no IP addresses|
16:11:40 <jan_romann> ... similar to webpages where links might be relative to where the document came from
16:11:55 <jan_romann> ... a similar assumption could be made in TDs
16:12:18 <jan_romann> ... this was discussed in the issue in an example by Ege
16:12:38 <jan_romann> ... we could also solve this with TMs which are resolved during runtime
16:13:58 <kaz> q+
16:14:24 <jan_romann> ... should we address this in version 1.1 or defer to 2.0?
16:14:55 <jan_romann> kaz: If we defer this to 2.0 we should clarify use cases in more detail
16:15:18 <jan_romann> SK: Is this already discussed in the discovery taskforce?
16:15:38 <jan_romann> dape: I guess there is no one left at the moment in the call
16:15:49 <kaz> s/If/agree we should defer this to 2.0, and even if/
16:15:59 <jan_romann> q+
16:16:03 <kaz> q-
16:16:50 <jan_romann> q-
16:16:53 <kaz> s/more detail/more detail, e.g., within a smart home environment with DHCP addressing. And after that kind of clarification, we can discuss the detail again./
16:18:06 <jan_romann> SK: We should wait for feedback from the discovery taskforce and discuss this again later
16:18:13 <jan_romann> subtopic: Issue 1280
16:18:37 <jan_romann> SK: I think here we need Michael McCool
16:18:47 <jan_romann> ... to get a status of this issue
16:19:33 <kaz> i|I think here|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1280 Issue 1280 - UML diagrams contain lines with multiple properties|
16:19:37 <jan_romann> * Sure, if something would like to :)
16:19:57 <kaz> scribenick: kaz
16:20:07 <kaz> subtopic: Issue 909
16:20:49 <kaz> s/Issue 909/Other issues/
16:21:03 <kaz> sk: we need to look into the issues marked as "V1.1"
16:21:12 <kaz> ... most of them are editorial ones
16:21:49 <kaz> subtopic: Issue 1300
16:21:59 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1300 Issue 1300 - Please check if the rules of chapter 5.2 are valid for a TM
16:22:36 <kaz> s/* Sure, if something would like to :)//
16:22:59 <kaz> sk: TM relies on TD information model the same rules should be valid also for TM definitions.
16:23:05 <kaz> subtopic: Issue 1296
16:23:24 <jan_romann> q+
16:23:40 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1296 Issue 1296 - Canonicalization - array vs. single value
16:23:47 <kaz> sk: would suggest we close this issue
16:23:50 <kaz> dp: make sense
16:24:17 <kaz> jr: maybe worth thinking about several data types
16:24:21 <kaz> ... maybe for 2.0, though
16:24:40 <kaz> sk: fundamental discussion has already started
16:25:39 <kaz> ...the mechanism for JSON-LD's @context is not much flexible
16:26:05 <kaz> ... regarding this issue itself, some discussion done in the past
16:26:29 <kaz> ... maybe can be done by alternative compact representation
16:27:02 <kaz> ... anyway this is an issue can't be resolved for TD 1.1
16:27:27 <kaz> jr: yeah, I'm also thinking about TD 2.0 for this
16:27:34 <kaz> ack j
16:28:05 <kaz> subtopic: AOB?
16:28:15 <kaz> sk: any specific issue to be discussed today?
16:28:17 <kaz> (none)
16:28:26 <kaz> sk: then would close this call
16:28:47 <kaz> ... please review the updated TD draft
16:29:09 <kaz> ... so that we can make a resolution for WD publication
16:29:39 <kaz> [adjourned]
16:29:47 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:29:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/12/01-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
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