IRC log of rqtf on 2021-12-01

Timestamps are in UTC.

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logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/12/01-rqtf-irc

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RRSAgent, make logs public

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Meeting: Accessible Platform Architectures Working Group Teleconference

13:15:16 [trackbot]

Date: 01 December 2021

13:15:38 [jasonjgw]

agenda+ Short-term Task Force priorities.

13:15:47 [jasonjgw]

agenda+ Synchronization Accessibility User Requirements.

13:15:47 [jasonjgw]

agenda+ Accessibility of remote Meetings.

13:15:47 [jasonjgw]

agenda+ Natural Language Interface Accessibility User Requirements.

13:15:47 [jasonjgw]

agenda+ Revision of CAPTCHA Note.

13:15:47 [jasonjgw]

agenda+ Miscellaneous topics.

13:15:56 [jasonjgw]

chair: jasonjgw

13:15:59 [jasonjgw]

present+

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rrsagend, start meeting

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rrsagent, start meeting

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I'm logging. I don't understand 'start meeting', Joshue108_. Try /msg RRSAgent help

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trackbot, start meeting

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RRSAgent, make logs public

14:00:47 [trackbot]

Meeting: Accessible Platform Architectures Working Group Teleconference

14:00:47 [trackbot]

Date: 01 December 2021

14:00:52 [SteveNoble]

present+

14:01:21 [Joshue108_]

present+

14:01:36 [jasonjgw]

zakim, next item

14:01:36 [Zakim]

agendum 1 -- Short-term Task Force priorities. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]

14:01:56 [Joshue108_]

JW: Lets discuss priorities

14:02:25 [Joshue108_]

FPWD of CAPTCHA is a priority, we can discuss details later

14:02:39 [Joshue108_]

Then Media Sync, Remote meetings and NAUR

14:02:47 [Joshue108_]

What can we achieve by the end of the year

14:02:53 [Joshue108_]

JS: I like that order

14:03:08 [Joshue108_]

If we can get CAPTCHA done by the end of the year then thats good.

14:03:27 [Joshue108_]

We may not update other working drafts this year - we have only 3 meetings left this year

14:03:37 [Joshue108_]

22nd and 29th off, then back on Jan 5th

14:03:51 [Joshue108_]

JW: Sound good?

14:03:58 [Joshue108_]

SN: Good for me

14:04:18 [Joshue108_]

<egg nog anyone?>

14:04:33 [Joshue108_]

JW: We will work as we go

14:04:50 [Joshue108_]

JS: COGA is looking at NAUR and A11y of remote meetings

14:05:05 [Joshue108_]

In a Goggle doc - they will have to go into Github issues

14:05:48 [Joshue108_]

RK: Three things - about meetings.

14:06:08 [Joshue108_]

I want to check Judy got interpreter co-ord

14:06:21 [Joshue108_]

RK: I've emailed Judy about this.

14:06:45 [Joshue108_]

Also we need Judy for MIT engineer disucssion on flash mitigation

14:07:38 [jasonjgw]

zakim, next item

14:07:38 [Zakim]

agendum 2 -- Synchronization Accessibility User Requirements. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]

14:08:56 [SteveNoble]

jasonjgw: Progress has been made on planning to address SAUR issues

14:10:13 [Joshue108_]

SN: I looked at all the issues in Github - most are minor changes of wording

14:10:32 [Joshue108_]

One comment is from the co-author of one of the studies

14:10:56 [Joshue108_]

He suggested a discussion between captions for deaf folks and those using other languages

14:11:17 [Joshue108_]

He suggested there are different issues - looking into it

14:11:39 [Joshue108_]

This is useful as long as it informs the discussion on synchronisation

14:11:48 [Joshue108_]

He is suggesting there are related issues.

14:12:27 [Joshue108_]

RK: Accessibility is dependent on the audience, when there are first and second language translation / considerations

14:12:55 [janina_]

q+ to ask about time scale modification

14:13:18 [Joshue108_]

Syncing can be a sticky issue - for natural language captioning guidance, in the US for TV - for kids, they try to keep the word count low < 150 per minute

14:13:33 [Joshue108_]

Content is often summarised. Is this a part of the discussion?

14:14:07 [Joshue108_]

SN: There are similar constrains when something comes too quickly for the user. I'll have to research these studies, to see what to include.

14:14:38 [Joshue108_]

JW: Notes, the disagreements in the literature - various arguments, situations and considerations

14:14:42 [Joshue108_]

q?

14:14:44 [Joshue108_]

ack jan

14:14:44 [Zakim]

janina_, you wanted to ask about time scale modification

14:15:15 [Joshue108_]

JS: I'm glad we are having this conversation - I want to note there is another tool in the HTML5 spec, timescale modification

14:15:23 [Joshue108_]

Feature in audio books, could be used in video.

14:15:35 [Joshue108_]

<Gives example>

14:16:11 [Joshue108_]

JW: Notes, tighter synchronisation can be provided.

14:16:30 [Joshue108_]

JS: And the caption would stay on screen longer when playback is slowed

14:16:44 [Joshue108_]

JW: Is that helpful Steve?

14:16:45 [Joshue108_]

SN: Yes

14:17:27 [Joshue108_]

SN: I'd like to be able to assign things.

14:17:31 [Joshue108_]

JS: Will look into that.

14:18:15 [Joshue108_]

<Discussion of accounts a la W3C etc>

14:19:37 [Joshue108_]

JW: Docs will be separated into diff repos.

14:20:07 [Joshue108_]

JW: Work is going well.

14:20:48 [Joshue108_]

JW: We can take it up next week

14:22:01 [jasonjgw]

zakim, next item

14:22:01 [Zakim]

agendum 3 -- Accessibility of remote Meetings. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]

14:22:41 [Joshue108_]

JW: Notes, Scott is leading this and was to update us, I'll summarise

14:23:06 [Joshue108_]

We have issues in the issue tracker - several come from the break out session at TPAC. I've moved them in, commented etc

14:23:16 [Joshue108_]

Those changes need to be approved for merging.

14:23:36 [Joshue108_]

I'd like to see more review and confirmation on merging etc

14:24:05 [Joshue108_]

We can keep working on them - discuss.

14:25:07 [Joshue108_]

JOC: Are you looking for further discussion or just to have them merged?

14:25:23 [Joshue108_]

JW: There are some categories, I would like review of some of the proposed changes etc

14:26:06 [Joshue108_]

Some dont have solutions - and will need further comments and discussion.

14:26:20 [Joshue108_]

JW: Comments? Or put it on the agenda for next week?

14:26:45 [Joshue108_]

I'll let Scott know that we should just continue working on them

14:27:05 [Joshue108_]

JS: COGA are discussing tomorrow so we will get comments

14:27:33 [jasonjgw]

zakim, next item

14:27:33 [Zakim]

agendum 4 -- Natural Language Interface Accessibility User Requirements. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]

14:27:46 [Joshue108_]

JW: This is NAUR

14:28:18 [Joshue108_]

The main development here, is that there was a presentation from researchers from the MITRE corp - who published on chatbot a11y

14:29:02 [Joshue108_]

This included spoken interfaces, they have useful literature - their paper summarises their findings and aspects of natural language a11y that are difficult to address

14:29:20 [Joshue108_]

Useful appendix to the paper - so which issues should we take up and address?

14:29:52 [Joshue108_]

JW: I've commented on GH that we are not trying to capture all the issues suggested but we are trying to provide a more thought thru analysis

14:30:01 [Joshue108_]

That will inform further development

14:30:22 [Joshue108_]

We are trying to distill, and arrive at conclusions

14:31:01 [Joshue108_]

JW: You will need access to the journal - so how do we want to respond to the issues?

14:31:03 [Joshue108_]

q?

14:32:13 [Joshue108_]

JOC: I dont have access to this library

14:32:31 [Joshue108_]

JW: It is a long list of items - we need several people looking them

14:32:46 [Joshue108_]

JS: Scott and Raja may have access - maybe Steve.

14:33:41 [Joshue108_]

JOC: Between Scott, Raja and Jason - that's a good gang to have a look and feedback

14:34:11 [Joshue108_]

RK: I can share.

14:34:31 [Joshue108_]

JOC: Thanks Raja!

14:35:11 [Joshue108_]

JS: I'll have a look and see if there is a hosted version.

14:35:39 [Joshue108_]

<Discussion on papers>

14:36:48 [Joshue108_]

JOC: That would be great.

14:37:13 [Joshue108_]

JW: I've not noted comments at all on this.

14:37:19 [Joshue108_]

JS: There will be from COGA

14:37:30 [Joshue108_]

JW: Lets see how we go, final comments?

14:37:35 [jasonjgw]

zakim, next item

14:37:35 [Zakim]

agendum 5 -- Revision of CAPTCHA Note. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]

14:38:03 [Joshue108_]

JS: <Gives overview>

14:38:22 [Joshue108_]

JS: We have this note from 2019..

14:38:48 [Joshue108_]

but jason has done great work, and some new specific tech approaches from Cloudflare - and references to other specs

14:39:03 [Joshue108_]

Refs to the economic impact

14:39:19 [Joshue108_]

So if RQTF and APA agree, we suggest we publish the editors draft as the FPWD

14:39:33 [Joshue108_]

We have some time as we need to work out messaging

14:39:46 [Joshue108_]

The last chance to publish is 16th Dec

14:39:53 [Joshue108_]

We could even make it by next week

14:40:09 [Joshue108_]

We should move to using the additions that Jason created, unless there is any disagreement

14:40:20 [Joshue108_]

This group is the first point of contact

14:40:42 [Joshue108_]

JW: You want to move the para on economic consequences, but that doesn't have to hold up the draft

14:40:54 [Joshue108_]

JS: Am keen to publish a FPWD

14:41:11 [Joshue108_]

JW: Suggestions on where it should be would be welcome

14:41:43 [Joshue108_]

JS: WFM - as long as the group is ok with these additions, going to to FPWD with changes as an update note

14:41:49 [Joshue108_]

JW: <gives overview>

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14:42:54 [Joshue108_]

2 substantial changes - anyone uncomfortable with proceeding with these changes?

14:43:25 [janina_]

https://raw.githack.com/w3c/captcha-accessibility/main/

14:43:46 [Joshue108_]

RESOLUTION: RQTF recommends going to FPWD based on the editors draft https://raw.githack.com/w3c/captcha-accessibility/main/

14:44:30 [Joshue108_]

JS: Its great that we are saying you can use W3C tech to not use CAPTCHA anymore.

14:46:14 [janina_]

scribe: janina

14:46:48 [janina_]

jgw: Influences what we tell the public--but let's put it into our messaging once APA determines the course

14:47:19 [janina_]

jgw: Summarizes the CfC, noting the only proposed change is incorporation of the two noted edits

14:47:49 [Joshue_108]

q?

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14:48:06 [Joshue_108]

q?

14:48:17 [Joshue_108]

JS: I'm hoping we can base this on what we did before.

14:48:47 [Joshue_108]

JB: Discussion on availability for Shawn

14:48:55 [Joshue_108]

JS: I can give her a heads up -

14:49:03 [Joshue_108]

JB: Please give a few days lead time

14:49:13 [Joshue_108]

JS: We can base it on what we said in the past

14:49:39 [Joshue_108]

JS: We have a proposal to use W3C tech so that is the big message

14:49:47 [Joshue_108]

JW: The Cloudflare proposal is very interesting

14:49:58 [Joshue_108]

We are interested in new developments

14:50:10 [Joshue_108]

We want to open it up

14:50:23 [Joshue_108]

JS: We need to decide - open for comments until end of Jan

14:50:33 [Joshue_108]

JW: Yes, we may have another draft in Feb

14:50:43 [Joshue_108]

JW: That ok for all?

14:51:12 [Joshue_108]

JS: 28th or so, but we need wide publicity with this draft - that we can kill CAPTCHA

14:51:39 [Joshue_108]

JW: WebAuth will need to be involved.

14:51:46 [Joshue_108]

q?

14:53:05 [Joshue_108]

JOC: Asks what is needed?

14:53:31 [Joshue_108]

JS: Happy for you to do that - we can look at previous messaging and blog posts etc

14:53:35 [Joshue_108]

JW: That would be helpful

14:54:00 [Joshue_108]

JS: We will need to talk about teh new W3C statement

14:54:36 [Joshue_108]

JOC: Lets start a round robin on this

14:54:54 [Joshue_108]

JW: Folloing on from APA call - we will know what is happening

14:55:09 [Joshue_108]

We can then take a cut from the mail branch

14:55:23 [Joshue_108]

JS: I'll update RQTF after APA call.

14:55:37 [jasonjgw]

zakim, next item

14:55:37 [Zakim]

agendum 6 -- Miscellaneous topics. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]

14:56:09 [Joshue_108]

JW: Flash mitigation discussion - any update?

14:56:29 [Joshue_108]

JB: I've spoken with Boris Katz on this, some schedule checking happening

14:57:44 [Joshue_108]

JW: We are planning to not meet in last two weeks in Dec - so it will be either first 3 weeks of Dec or early next year.

14:57:55 [Joshue_108]

JB: I'll let them know.

14:58:25 [Joshue_108]

JB: Who hear has read the research report?

14:58:29 [Joshue_108]

What are we hoping for?

14:58:38 [Joshue_108]

s/hear/here

14:58:51 [Joshue_108]

JW: I've read it

15:00:10 [Joshue_108]

<Gives overview>

15:00:16 [Joshue_108]

JW: Comments?

15:01:04 [Joshue_108]

JS: Do we believe this is an OS thing, or does it need some RFC 2119 language etc

15:01:17 [Joshue_108]

rrsagent, draft minutes

15:01:17 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/12/01-rqtf-minutes.html Joshue_108

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