IRC log of rqtf on 2021-12-01

Timestamps are in UTC.

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logging to
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Meeting: Accessible Platform Architectures Working Group Teleconference
13:15:16 [trackbot]
Date: 01 December 2021
13:15:38 [jasonjgw]
agenda+ Short-term Task Force priorities.
13:15:47 [jasonjgw]
agenda+ Synchronization Accessibility User Requirements.
13:15:47 [jasonjgw]
agenda+ Accessibility of remote Meetings.
13:15:47 [jasonjgw]
agenda+ Natural Language Interface Accessibility User Requirements.
13:15:47 [jasonjgw]
agenda+ Revision of CAPTCHA Note.
13:15:47 [jasonjgw]
agenda+ Miscellaneous topics.
13:15:56 [jasonjgw]
chair: jasonjgw
13:15:59 [jasonjgw]
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rrsagend, start meeting
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rrsagent, start meeting
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I'm logging. I don't understand 'start meeting', Joshue108_. Try /msg RRSAgent help
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trackbot, start meeting
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Meeting: Accessible Platform Architectures Working Group Teleconference
14:00:47 [trackbot]
Date: 01 December 2021
14:00:52 [SteveNoble]
14:01:21 [Joshue108_]
14:01:36 [jasonjgw]
zakim, next item
14:01:36 [Zakim]
agendum 1 -- Short-term Task Force priorities. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]
14:01:56 [Joshue108_]
JW: Lets discuss priorities
14:02:25 [Joshue108_]
FPWD of CAPTCHA is a priority, we can discuss details later
14:02:39 [Joshue108_]
Then Media Sync, Remote meetings and NAUR
14:02:47 [Joshue108_]
What can we achieve by the end of the year
14:02:53 [Joshue108_]
JS: I like that order
14:03:08 [Joshue108_]
If we can get CAPTCHA done by the end of the year then thats good.
14:03:27 [Joshue108_]
We may not update other working drafts this year - we have only 3 meetings left this year
14:03:37 [Joshue108_]
22nd and 29th off, then back on Jan 5th
14:03:51 [Joshue108_]
JW: Sound good?
14:03:58 [Joshue108_]
SN: Good for me
14:04:18 [Joshue108_]
<egg nog anyone?>
14:04:33 [Joshue108_]
JW: We will work as we go
14:04:50 [Joshue108_]
JS: COGA is looking at NAUR and A11y of remote meetings
14:05:05 [Joshue108_]
In a Goggle doc - they will have to go into Github issues
14:05:48 [Joshue108_]
RK: Three things - about meetings.
14:06:08 [Joshue108_]
I want to check Judy got interpreter co-ord
14:06:21 [Joshue108_]
RK: I've emailed Judy about this.
14:06:45 [Joshue108_]
Also we need Judy for MIT engineer disucssion on flash mitigation
14:07:38 [jasonjgw]
zakim, next item
14:07:38 [Zakim]
agendum 2 -- Synchronization Accessibility User Requirements. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]
14:08:56 [SteveNoble]
jasonjgw: Progress has been made on planning to address SAUR issues
14:10:13 [Joshue108_]
SN: I looked at all the issues in Github - most are minor changes of wording
14:10:32 [Joshue108_]
One comment is from the co-author of one of the studies
14:10:56 [Joshue108_]
He suggested a discussion between captions for deaf folks and those using other languages
14:11:17 [Joshue108_]
He suggested there are different issues - looking into it
14:11:39 [Joshue108_]
This is useful as long as it informs the discussion on synchronisation
14:11:48 [Joshue108_]
He is suggesting there are related issues.
14:12:27 [Joshue108_]
RK: Accessibility is dependent on the audience, when there are first and second language translation / considerations
14:12:55 [janina_]
q+ to ask about time scale modification
14:13:18 [Joshue108_]
Syncing can be a sticky issue - for natural language captioning guidance, in the US for TV - for kids, they try to keep the word count low < 150 per minute
14:13:33 [Joshue108_]
Content is often summarised. Is this a part of the discussion?
14:14:07 [Joshue108_]
SN: There are similar constrains when something comes too quickly for the user. I'll have to research these studies, to see what to include.
14:14:38 [Joshue108_]
JW: Notes, the disagreements in the literature - various arguments, situations and considerations
14:14:42 [Joshue108_]
14:14:44 [Joshue108_]
ack jan
14:14:44 [Zakim]
janina_, you wanted to ask about time scale modification
14:15:15 [Joshue108_]
JS: I'm glad we are having this conversation - I want to note there is another tool in the HTML5 spec, timescale modification
14:15:23 [Joshue108_]
Feature in audio books, could be used in video.
14:15:35 [Joshue108_]
<Gives example>
14:16:11 [Joshue108_]
JW: Notes, tighter synchronisation can be provided.
14:16:30 [Joshue108_]
JS: And the caption would stay on screen longer when playback is slowed
14:16:44 [Joshue108_]
JW: Is that helpful Steve?
14:16:45 [Joshue108_]
SN: Yes
14:17:27 [Joshue108_]
SN: I'd like to be able to assign things.
14:17:31 [Joshue108_]
JS: Will look into that.
14:18:15 [Joshue108_]
<Discussion of accounts a la W3C etc>
14:19:37 [Joshue108_]
JW: Docs will be separated into diff repos.
14:20:07 [Joshue108_]
JW: Work is going well.
14:20:48 [Joshue108_]
JW: We can take it up next week
14:22:01 [jasonjgw]
zakim, next item
14:22:01 [Zakim]
agendum 3 -- Accessibility of remote Meetings. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]
14:22:41 [Joshue108_]
JW: Notes, Scott is leading this and was to update us, I'll summarise
14:23:06 [Joshue108_]
We have issues in the issue tracker - several come from the break out session at TPAC. I've moved them in, commented etc
14:23:16 [Joshue108_]
Those changes need to be approved for merging.
14:23:36 [Joshue108_]
I'd like to see more review and confirmation on merging etc
14:24:05 [Joshue108_]
We can keep working on them - discuss.
14:25:07 [Joshue108_]
JOC: Are you looking for further discussion or just to have them merged?
14:25:23 [Joshue108_]
JW: There are some categories, I would like review of some of the proposed changes etc
14:26:06 [Joshue108_]
Some dont have solutions - and will need further comments and discussion.
14:26:20 [Joshue108_]
JW: Comments? Or put it on the agenda for next week?
14:26:45 [Joshue108_]
I'll let Scott know that we should just continue working on them
14:27:05 [Joshue108_]
JS: COGA are discussing tomorrow so we will get comments
14:27:33 [jasonjgw]
zakim, next item
14:27:33 [Zakim]
agendum 4 -- Natural Language Interface Accessibility User Requirements. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]
14:27:46 [Joshue108_]
JW: This is NAUR
14:28:18 [Joshue108_]
The main development here, is that there was a presentation from researchers from the MITRE corp - who published on chatbot a11y
14:29:02 [Joshue108_]
This included spoken interfaces, they have useful literature - their paper summarises their findings and aspects of natural language a11y that are difficult to address
14:29:20 [Joshue108_]
Useful appendix to the paper - so which issues should we take up and address?
14:29:52 [Joshue108_]
JW: I've commented on GH that we are not trying to capture all the issues suggested but we are trying to provide a more thought thru analysis
14:30:01 [Joshue108_]
That will inform further development
14:30:22 [Joshue108_]
We are trying to distill, and arrive at conclusions
14:31:01 [Joshue108_]
JW: You will need access to the journal - so how do we want to respond to the issues?
14:31:03 [Joshue108_]
14:32:13 [Joshue108_]
JOC: I dont have access to this library
14:32:31 [Joshue108_]
JW: It is a long list of items - we need several people looking them
14:32:46 [Joshue108_]
JS: Scott and Raja may have access - maybe Steve.
14:33:41 [Joshue108_]
JOC: Between Scott, Raja and Jason - that's a good gang to have a look and feedback
14:34:11 [Joshue108_]
RK: I can share.
14:34:31 [Joshue108_]
JOC: Thanks Raja!
14:35:11 [Joshue108_]
JS: I'll have a look and see if there is a hosted version.
14:35:39 [Joshue108_]
<Discussion on papers>
14:36:48 [Joshue108_]
JOC: That would be great.
14:37:13 [Joshue108_]
JW: I've not noted comments at all on this.
14:37:19 [Joshue108_]
JS: There will be from COGA
14:37:30 [Joshue108_]
JW: Lets see how we go, final comments?
14:37:35 [jasonjgw]
zakim, next item
14:37:35 [Zakim]
agendum 5 -- Revision of CAPTCHA Note. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]
14:38:03 [Joshue108_]
JS: <Gives overview>
14:38:22 [Joshue108_]
JS: We have this note from 2019..
14:38:48 [Joshue108_]
but jason has done great work, and some new specific tech approaches from Cloudflare - and references to other specs
14:39:03 [Joshue108_]
Refs to the economic impact
14:39:19 [Joshue108_]
So if RQTF and APA agree, we suggest we publish the editors draft as the FPWD
14:39:33 [Joshue108_]
We have some time as we need to work out messaging
14:39:46 [Joshue108_]
The last chance to publish is 16th Dec
14:39:53 [Joshue108_]
We could even make it by next week
14:40:09 [Joshue108_]
We should move to using the additions that Jason created, unless there is any disagreement
14:40:20 [Joshue108_]
This group is the first point of contact
14:40:42 [Joshue108_]
JW: You want to move the para on economic consequences, but that doesn't have to hold up the draft
14:40:54 [Joshue108_]
JS: Am keen to publish a FPWD
14:41:11 [Joshue108_]
JW: Suggestions on where it should be would be welcome
14:41:43 [Joshue108_]
JS: WFM - as long as the group is ok with these additions, going to to FPWD with changes as an update note
14:41:49 [Joshue108_]
JW: <gives overview>
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14:42:54 [Joshue108_]
2 substantial changes - anyone uncomfortable with proceeding with these changes?
14:43:25 [janina_]
14:43:46 [Joshue108_]
RESOLUTION: RQTF recommends going to FPWD based on the editors draft
14:44:30 [Joshue108_]
JS: Its great that we are saying you can use W3C tech to not use CAPTCHA anymore.
14:46:14 [janina_]
scribe: janina
14:46:48 [janina_]
jgw: Influences what we tell the public--but let's put it into our messaging once APA determines the course
14:47:19 [janina_]
jgw: Summarizes the CfC, noting the only proposed change is incorporation of the two noted edits
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14:48:17 [Joshue_108]
JS: I'm hoping we can base this on what we did before.
14:48:47 [Joshue_108]
JB: Discussion on availability for Shawn
14:48:55 [Joshue_108]
JS: I can give her a heads up -
14:49:03 [Joshue_108]
JB: Please give a few days lead time
14:49:13 [Joshue_108]
JS: We can base it on what we said in the past
14:49:39 [Joshue_108]
JS: We have a proposal to use W3C tech so that is the big message
14:49:47 [Joshue_108]
JW: The Cloudflare proposal is very interesting
14:49:58 [Joshue_108]
We are interested in new developments
14:50:10 [Joshue_108]
We want to open it up
14:50:23 [Joshue_108]
JS: We need to decide - open for comments until end of Jan
14:50:33 [Joshue_108]
JW: Yes, we may have another draft in Feb
14:50:43 [Joshue_108]
JW: That ok for all?
14:51:12 [Joshue_108]
JS: 28th or so, but we need wide publicity with this draft - that we can kill CAPTCHA
14:51:39 [Joshue_108]
JW: WebAuth will need to be involved.
14:51:46 [Joshue_108]
14:53:05 [Joshue_108]
JOC: Asks what is needed?
14:53:31 [Joshue_108]
JS: Happy for you to do that - we can look at previous messaging and blog posts etc
14:53:35 [Joshue_108]
JW: That would be helpful
14:54:00 [Joshue_108]
JS: We will need to talk about teh new W3C statement
14:54:36 [Joshue_108]
JOC: Lets start a round robin on this
14:54:54 [Joshue_108]
JW: Folloing on from APA call - we will know what is happening
14:55:09 [Joshue_108]
We can then take a cut from the mail branch
14:55:23 [Joshue_108]
JS: I'll update RQTF after APA call.
14:55:37 [jasonjgw]
zakim, next item
14:55:37 [Zakim]
agendum 6 -- Miscellaneous topics. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]
14:56:09 [Joshue_108]
JW: Flash mitigation discussion - any update?
14:56:29 [Joshue_108]
JB: I've spoken with Boris Katz on this, some schedule checking happening
14:57:44 [Joshue_108]
JW: We are planning to not meet in last two weeks in Dec - so it will be either first 3 weeks of Dec or early next year.
14:57:55 [Joshue_108]
JB: I'll let them know.
14:58:25 [Joshue_108]
JB: Who hear has read the research report?
14:58:29 [Joshue_108]
What are we hoping for?
14:58:38 [Joshue_108]
14:58:51 [Joshue_108]
JW: I've read it
15:00:10 [Joshue_108]
<Gives overview>
15:00:16 [Joshue_108]
JW: Comments?
15:01:04 [Joshue_108]
JS: Do we believe this is an OS thing, or does it need some RFC 2119 language etc
15:01:17 [Joshue_108]
rrsagent, draft minutes
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I have made the request to generate Joshue_108
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