16:49:52 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #apa
16:49:52 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/12/01-apa-irc
16:49:54 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
16:49:57 <trackbot> Meeting: Accessible Platform Architectures Working Group Teleconference
16:49:57 <trackbot> Date: 01 December 2021
16:50:04 <janina_> agenda?
16:50:11 <janina_> zakim, clear agenda
16:50:11 <Zakim> agenda cleared
16:50:15 <janina_> Chair: Becky
16:50:15 <janina_> agenda+ Agenda Review & Announcements;
16:50:15 <janina_> agenda+ Task Force Updates;
16:50:15 <janina_> agenda+ FAST Progress
16:50:15 <janina_> agenda+ New Charters Review https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22
16:50:18 <janina_> agenda+ Accessibility Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review
16:50:21 <janina_> agenda+ new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html
16:50:24 <janina_> agenda+ Dangling Spec Review Cleanup: https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Category:Spec_Review_Assigned
16:50:27 <janina_> agenda+ Actions Checkin (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/open
16:50:29 <janina_> agenda+ Other Business
16:50:32 <janina_> agenda+ be done
16:51:14 <becky> becky has joined #apa
16:52:14 <Fazio> Fazio has joined #apa
16:52:26 <becky> trackbot, start meeting
16:52:29 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
16:52:32 <trackbot> Meeting: Accessible Platform Architectures Working Group Teleconference
16:52:32 <trackbot> Date: 01 December 2021
16:52:44 <becky> zakim, agenda?
16:52:44 <Zakim> I see 10 items remaining on the agenda:
16:52:45 <Zakim> 1. Agenda Review & Announcements; [from janina_]
16:52:45 <Zakim> 2. Task Force Updates; [from janina_]
16:52:45 <Zakim> 3. FAST Progress [from janina_]
16:52:45 <Zakim> 4. New Charters Review https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22 [from janina_]
16:52:46 <Zakim> 5. Accessibility Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review [from janina_]
16:52:46 <Zakim> 6. new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html [from janina_]
16:52:46 <Zakim> 7. Dangling Spec Review Cleanup: https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Category:Spec_Review_Assigned [from janina_]
16:52:46 <Zakim> 8. Actions Checkin (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/open [from janina_]
16:52:47 <Zakim> 9. Other Business [from janina_]
16:52:47 <Zakim> 10. be done [from janina_]
16:54:11 <becky> chair: becky
16:54:55 <janina_>  regrets: Gottfried_Zimmerman
17:00:10 <Lionel_Wolberger> Lionel_Wolberger has joined #apa
17:01:47 <Fredrik> Fredrik has joined #apa
17:01:54 <janina_> https://www.w3.org/2021/12/01-rqtf-minutes.html#r01
17:01:57 <Fredrik> present+
17:02:35 <anevins> anevins has joined #apa
17:03:14 <Irfan> Irfan has joined #apa
17:03:16 <Fredrik> scribe: Fredrik
17:03:21 <Irfan> present+
17:03:51 <anevins> present+
17:03:53 <JF> JF has joined #apa
17:03:59 <JF> Present+
17:04:59 <becky> present+
17:06:30 <janina_> present+
17:06:58 <Fazio> present+
17:07:09 <Lionel_Wolberger> present+
17:07:31 <Fredrik> zakim, next item
17:07:31 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Agenda Review & Announcements; -- taken up [from janina_]
17:08:13 <Fredrik> janina: Friendly reminder: weäre meeting today, 8th, and 15th and then resume on the 5th of January.
17:08:17 <Jonny_James> Jonny_James has joined #apa
17:08:18 <Jonny_James> present+
17:08:45 <Fredrik> zakim, close this item
17:08:45 <Zakim> agendum 1 closed
17:08:46 <Zakim> I see 9 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:08:46 <Zakim> 2. Task Force Updates; [from janina_]
17:08:49 <Fredrik> zakim, next item
17:08:49 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Task Force Updates; -- taken up [from janina_]
17:09:05 <Fredrik> janina: RQTF has an action.
17:09:35 <Fredrik> janina: We reached  consesnsus on starting an update to our 2019 APA note on the inaccessibility of CAPTCHA whcih itself is an update to a note from 2005.
17:10:23 <Fredrik> janina: There is a new category available in W3C publications as of Nov 2 called a W3C statemeent. We can actually get all of W3C's endorrsement of what we say ina note assuming we can get agreement on what we have said.
17:11:12 <Fredrik> janina: We ran a CFC on it. Meanwhile a few weeks have gone by and we were made aware of some proposals from an Australian company called CloudFlare (the world's fastest DNS resolve, if anyone cares). They have a specific proposal for getting rid of CAPTCHA.
17:11:19 <janina_> https://raw.githack.com/w3c/captcha-accessibility/main/#cryptographic-attestation-of-personhood
17:11:30 <Fredrik> janina: We have updated our editor's draft for our repo where there is a direct pointer to teh section that's new.
17:11:48 <Fredrik> janina: It may need more elaboration.
17:12:02 <Fredrik> janina: We will get decnetralized identifiers, audthentication group and so on involved as well.
17:12:31 <Fredrik> janina: We should go FPWD with the best we konw at the moment, i.e., with what we've added as well now.
17:12:59 <Fredrik> janina: We have a short analysis from CloudFlare on the economic impact of CAPTCHA on the amount of time wasted on solving them.
17:13:12 <Fredrik> janina: RQTF's poposal is to publish our updated working draft as our FPWD.
17:13:32 <Fredrik> janina: The second question is if we should run another CFC for this.
17:13:53 <Fredrik> janina: It's going to take another week  for us to get the messaging arranged, so we have time for a CFC as well.
17:14:08 <Fredrik> janina: Do you think we should do the CFC?
17:14:17 <Irfan> q+
17:14:18 <Lionel_Wolberger> q+
17:14:29 <becky> ack Irfan
17:14:47 <becky> ack Lionel_Wolberger
17:15:13 <Fredrik> Lionel_Wolberger: I'm very excited for the work but I think we should do a second CFC to get people like me to pipe in.
17:15:36 <Fredrik> Lionel_Wolberger: I don't want to gum up the gears on this, since I'm also excited about the whole thing.
17:16:00 <Fredrik> Lionel_Wolberger: Would we be saying, through aCFC, that we want to promote it to a W3C stateement because we see it as important to the whole W3C?
17:16:35 <mike_beganyi> mike_beganyi has joined #apa
17:16:44 <mike_beganyi> present+
17:17:00 <Fredrik> janina: Yes. Publish as many UWDs as possible, advance it to an APA note in 2022 (hopefully) and once we have it as an APA note, we can ask W3C to accept it as a W3C statement, whereupon it depends on a vote if it becomes a statment, whatever taht would then entail.
17:17:23 <Fredrik> Lionel_Wolberger: I'd like appoofing round.
17:17:40 <Fredrik> janina: Editorail updates are always accepted as longas a CFC is running. Please give pull requests for typos and so on.
17:17:45 <Fredrik> Lionel_Wolberger: Git link please?
17:18:25 <Fredrik> becky: Let's make edits, then make a CFC and then make it official as an FPWD. right?
17:18:29 <MichaelC> https://github.com/w3c/captcha
17:19:18 <Fredrik> Irfan: Prounication: We had an interesting meeting with ARIA-WG.
17:19:48 <Fredrik> Irfan: Nobody was opposiing things during TPAC. Int terms of implementation we have eight properties and ap proposal to identify the most important ones.
17:20:17 <Fredrik> Irfan: Today's discussion was around that topic. The next action item is to discuss what we should trim, but that will be based on the use cases in a more detailed discussion.
17:20:24 <Fredrik> Irfan: Today's discussion was very important and positive.
17:20:49 <Fredrik> janina: We asked them if they could think of a way we can experiment with screen readers.
17:21:36 <Irfan> https://www.w3.org/2021/12/01-pronunciation-minutes.html
17:21:40 <Fredrik> Fazio: Nothing from COGA at the moment.
17:22:37 <Fredrik> becky: Internationalization has issues still. Everyone is working fro a recipe for both English and Hebrew. We have the code but not the rendering.
17:22:58 <Fredrik> becky: We can't really show anything visually to Internationalization.
17:23:47 <Fredrik> Lionel_Wolberger: I also have a vague hope  that we can go back to I18n without rendering. It's obvious it's word by word, direction is not an issue.
17:23:50 <Fredrik> zakim, next item
17:23:50 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- FAST Progress -- taken up [from janina_]
17:24:22 <Fredrik> janina: Can  we point i18n to our big document?
17:24:29 <Fredrik> Lionel_Wolberger: I will do that.
17:25:07 <Fredrik> Joshue108: Brief update. Michael and I met with Make adn Todd during the week. We are looking through tthe spreadsheet we're working on, the user needs mapping.
17:25:41 <Fredrik> Joshue108: We're kind of saying the same things again and again. One of the interesting things that came out of the call on Tuesday is taht we are going to try a now slice...
17:26:10 <Fredrik> Joshue108: We hope, before Christmas, to have something that's ready to show you then or at least fo rthe new year, that we can demonstrate to APA and otehrs about our thinking and what we want to do.
17:26:33 <Fredrik> Joshue108: We have a very focused methodology for the coming weeks. We have a narrow increment we hoope to be update  you on before Xmas.
17:26:51 <Fredrik> zakim, next item
17:26:51 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- New Charters Review https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22 -- taken up [from janina_]
17:27:08 <Fredrik> MichaelC: there is one, Second Screen WG.
17:27:08 <MichaelC> https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues/291
17:27:38 <Fredrik> MichaelC: We have worked with them. They have added to define piS TO ALLOW SCRIPTS TO QUERY DEICES ABOUT CONNECTED SCREENS.
17:27:47 <Fredrik> janina: tHE REASON THIS IS BACK IS BECAUSE i HAVEN'T DONE MY ACTION.
17:28:14 <Fredrik> janina: i SHOULD WRITE A NOTE ASKING THEM IF WE ARE USING "SECOND SCREEN" GNERICALLY AND THAT OUR apiS WILL HANDLE ALL THESE THINGS.
17:28:57 <Fredrik> janina: We had disagreement some time ago, but the membership of the group may have changted substantially. We should just reaffirm a previous agreement.
17:29:20 <Fredrik> zakim, next item
17:29:20 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Accessibility Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review -- taken up [from janina_]
17:29:33 <Fredrik> MichaelC: Nothing!
17:29:42 <Fredrik> zakim, close this item
17:29:42 <Zakim> agendum 5 closed
17:29:43 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:29:43 <Zakim> 6. new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html [from janina_]
17:29:59 <Fredrik> MichaelC: A lot of stuff that has been published, but nothing new to the radar.
17:30:03 <Fredrik> zakim, close this item
17:30:03 <Zakim> I do not know what agendum had been taken up, Fredrik
17:30:09 <Fredrik> zakim, next item
17:30:09 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html -- taken up [from janina_]
17:30:19 <Fredrik> zakim, close this item
17:30:19 <Zakim> agendum 6 closed
17:30:20 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:30:20 <Zakim> 7. Dangling Spec Review Cleanup: https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Category:Spec_Review_Assigned [from janina_]
17:30:22 <Fredrik> zakim, next item
17:30:22 <Zakim> agendum 7 -- Dangling Spec Review Cleanup: https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Category:Spec_Review_Assigned -- taken up [from janina_]
17:30:39 <Fredrik> On the half hour!
17:31:00 <MichaelC> https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues/18
17:31:04 <Fredrik> MichaelC: A review request, a new one.
17:31:18 <Fredrik> MichaelC: CSS custom properties for cascading variables.
17:31:25 <Fredrik> MichaelC: They want a generic review request.
17:32:05 <Fredrik> MichaelC: We decided six years ago that we don't need to review this spec.
17:32:12 <Fredrik> becky: Do we have anyone that can review it?
17:32:22 <Fredrik> janina: Do we have a significant reason to?
17:32:32 <Fredrik> MichaelC: They aren't defining categories or variables or such.
17:32:57 <MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Web_of_Things_(WoT)_Profile
17:33:02 <Fredrik> MichaelC: Web of Thigsn Profile. Josh sent review comments but we haven't discussed them yet.
17:33:12 <Fredrik> Joshue108: We talked about doing some kind of presentation at some stage.
17:33:18 <Fredrik> MichaelC: Are the comments discussable?
17:33:23 <Fredrik> Joshue108: I want to look at them first.
17:33:25 <MichaelC> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2021Sep/0029.html
17:33:51 <Fredrik> becky: It was from September. Forgetting is very understandable.
17:34:02 <Fredrik> MichaelC: Should we agenda this for next week? we've been circling this one for a while.
17:34:16 <Fredrik> becky: I'll make a note to discuss them next week.
17:34:19 <MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/WebXR_Layers_API_Level_1
17:34:30 <Fredrik> MichaelC: WebXR Layers API 1.0. Josh has an action to comment.
17:34:39 <Fredrik> Joshue108: Wehy don't we try and do that next week as well?
17:34:46 <Fredrik> MichaelC: Please send the comment before the meeting.
17:34:51 <Fredrik> Joshue108: I have some questiosn.
17:34:59 <Fredrik> becky: And some review notes.
17:35:33 <becky> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2021May/0040.html
17:35:43 <MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Language_Tags_and_Locale_Identifiers_for_the_World_Wide_Web
17:35:51 <Fredrik> MichaelC: Lnaguage Tags on Locale Identifiers. Janina was going to add an issue.
17:36:07 <Fredrik> janina: Tehre was a question if that covers sign languages. I'm adding it to my list.
17:36:13 <Fazio> q+
17:36:27 <becky> ack Fazio
17:36:31 <Fredrik> Fazio: Sign language is super cultural.
17:36:57 <Fredrik> janina: There is an ISO SPEC THAT PROVIDES SPECIFIC DESIGNATORS FOR SPECIFIC slS AROUND THE WORLD AND WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THOSE ARE COMPREHENDED IN REFERENCE DOCUMENTS.
17:37:29 <Fredrik> janina: tHE QUESTION IS HOW WE GO ABOUT GETTING IT INCLUDED, THESE DESIGNATORS.
17:37:42 <MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Input_Events
17:38:10 <Fredrik> MichaelC: Input events. We've been danglign on this for years and years. In 2017 we said we were going to work with them. My proposal for now is we shoudl figure it out.
17:38:48 <Fredrik> MichaelC: It was still a WG 2 1/2 years ago. We sent feedback in '17. We wanted them to provide a notification to ATs.
17:39:07 <Fredrik> becky: They want a notification that a text insertion was complete so taht you get some kind of positive enforcement.
17:39:26 <Fredrik> janina: So we do have some issues. It's about a better supported editing environment.
17:40:07 <Fredrik> janina: We had a conversation in Lyon about it. It needed to get done, but what I was getting confused in was an older conversation about the meaning of "click".
17:41:23 <MichaelC> action: frederik to review Input Events
17:41:24 <trackbot> Error finding 'frederik'. You can review and register nicknames at <https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/users>.
17:41:31 <MichaelC> action: fischer to review Input Events
17:41:33 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2311 - Review input events [on Fredrik Fischer - due 2021-12-08].
17:41:37 <MichaelC> action-2311: https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Input_Events
17:41:38 <trackbot> Notes added to action-2311 Review input events.
17:42:04 <Fredrik> MichaelC: Taht's it for danglign specs.
17:42:06 <Fredrik> zakim, next item
17:42:06 <Zakim> agendum 8 -- Actions Checkin (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/open -- taken up [from janina_]
17:42:38 <Fredrik> becky: Please, look at your actions whether they are in the tracker or not.
17:47:49 <becky> rrsagent, make minutes
17:47:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/12/01-apa-minutes.html becky
17:49:21 <Fredrik> zakim, next itme
17:49:23 <Zakim> I don't understand 'next itme', Fredrik
17:49:33 <Fredrik> zakim, next item
17:49:33 <Zakim> agendum 9 -- Other Business -- taken up [from janina_]
17:49:59 <Fredrik> janina: A request to Michael or Josh: Anyone able to give me the locked-in URI for the CAPTCHA-Accessibility for the CFC?
17:50:23 <MichaelC> s|https://github.com/w3c/captcha|https://github.com/w3c/captcha-accessibility/|
17:50:31 <Fredrik> janina: *CAPTCHA-Accessibility
17:51:19 <MichaelC> https://raw.githack.com/w3c/captcha-accessibility/05bdd8c0d8b8a89860aca3a149c53ea4d7998a11/index.html
17:51:45 <Fredrik> zakim, next item
17:51:45 <Zakim> agendum 10 -- be done -- taken up [from janina_]
17:52:00 <Fredrik> Chag sameach everyone!
17:52:37 <becky> rrsagent, make minutes
17:52:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/12/01-apa-minutes.html becky
17:52:40 <Fredrik> rrsagent, make minutes
17:52:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/12/01-apa-minutes.html Fredrik
17:52:45 <MichaelC> present+
17:52:50 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make minutes
17:52:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/12/01-apa-minutes.html MichaelC
17:53:04 <JF> JF has left #apa
17:56:39 <Fredrik> rrsagent, bye
17:56:39 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in https://www.w3.org/2021/12/01-apa-actions.rdf :
17:56:39 <RRSAgent> ACTION: frederik to review Input Events [1]
17:56:39 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2021/12/01-apa-irc#T17-41-23
17:56:39 <RRSAgent> ACTION: fischer to review Input Events [2]
17:56:39 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2021/12/01-apa-irc#T17-41-31
17:56:41 <Fredrik> zakim, bye
17:56:41 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been JF, Fredrik, IrfanA, anevins, Fazio_, janina, Jonny_James, mike_beganyi, Lionel_Wolberger, anevins_, Irfan, becky, janina_,
17:56:41 <Zakim> Zakim has left #apa
17:56:44 <Zakim> ... Fazio, MichaelC