10:03:06 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wot-arch
10:03:06 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/11/25-wot-arch-irc
10:03:29 <ryuichi> ryuichi has joined #wot-arch
10:03:35 <kaz> meeting: WoT Architecture
10:05:27 <McCool> McCool has joined #wot-arch
10:05:29 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Daniel_Peintner, Michael_McCool
10:06:07 <dape> dape has joined #wot-arch
10:07:52 <kaz> present+ Michael_Lagally, Ryuichi_Matsukura
10:08:16 <kaz> present+ Ben_Francis
10:09:30 <kaz> present+ Sebastian_Kaebisch
10:10:24 <kaz> agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Architecture_WebConf#Nov_25th.2C_2021
10:11:31 <kaz> present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima
10:11:39 <kaz> scribenick: sebastian
10:11:47 <sebastian> topic: spec alignment and publication blockers
10:12:07 <Mizushima> Mizushima has joined #wot-arch
10:12:59 <kaz> q+
10:12:59 <sebastian> ML: we should concentrate to find owners for all the issues
10:14:07 <sebastian> Kaz: Please can you clarify the expected schedule until end of November
10:15:31 <sebastian> ML: we want to have a feature freeze until end of Jan
10:17:06 <sebastian> Kaz: We should clarify which section should be normative.
10:17:58 <sebastian> ML: we are working for the 1.1 version, based on 1.0
10:18:34 <sebastian> Kaz: which should mark the section which are under discussion
10:19:01 <sebastian> s/section/sections
10:19:48 <sebastian> ... we should categories the issues which are related to TD or to Discovery
10:19:57 <sebastian> ML: I like this idea
10:20:34 <sebastian> topic: minutes review
10:21:06 <sebastian> https://www.w3.org/2021/11/18-wot-arch-minutes.htm
10:21:31 <kaz> s/https/-> https/
10:21:36 <kaz> s/htm/html Nov-18/
10:21:43 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
10:21:49 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
10:21:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/11/25-wot-arch-minutes.html kaz
10:21:56 <kaz> q?
10:21:57 <kaz> ack k
10:22:28 <kaz> chair: Lagally
10:22:31 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
10:22:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/11/25-wot-arch-minutes.html kaz
10:22:38 <kaz> regrets+ Ege
10:22:39 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
10:22:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/11/25-wot-arch-minutes.html kaz
10:24:55 <sebastian> any objections?
10:25:03 <sebastian> no
10:25:11 <sebastian> minutes are approved
10:26:05 <sebastian> topic: WoT Architecture
10:27:13 <sebastian> "
10:27:18 <sebastian> check the issue "Finding a place to put the security paragraph in the bindings chapter"
10:27:24 <sebastian> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/issues/643
10:27:44 <sebastian> ML: does this issue blocks publication?
10:28:09 <kaz> i|check|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22blocks+publication%22 Issues marked as "blocks publication"|
10:28:16 <kaz> s/check/"check/
10:28:31 <sebastian> MM: we can defer this issue
10:28:33 <kaz> i/check the issue/subtopic: Issue 643/
10:28:34 <sebastian> ML: ok
10:29:05 <sebastian> subtopic: issue #642
10:29:09 <sebastian> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/issues/642
10:30:03 <benfrancis> q+
10:30:23 <kaz> s/https/-> https/
10:30:24 <kaz> s/https/-> https/
10:30:41 <kaz> s/643/643 Issue 643 - Finding a place to put the security paragraph in the bindings chapter/
10:31:08 <kaz> s/642/642 Issue 642 - Identify normative RFC2119 assertions that affect the TD specification/
10:31:10 <kaz> q?
10:31:10 <sebastian> this is just a generic issue that calls for review
10:31:14 <kaz> ack b
10:31:25 <sebastian> ML: is the list complete?
10:32:48 <sebastian> Ben: would be Ege here, he would mention that the list covers unclear or incorrect assertions
10:33:35 <kaz> q+
10:33:39 <benfrancis> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/blob/main/testing/assertions.csv
10:37:19 <kaz> ack k
10:37:33 <sebastian> Ben: the question is if we move all to the TD spec
10:38:35 <sebastian> I will check all of them. Im worried about the redness of the Arch document when we remove all of them. Maybe some statements in the document will do not make sense anymore.
10:39:02 <sebastian> subtopic; issue #635
10:39:29 <sebastian> s/;/:
10:39:30 <sebastian> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/issues/641
10:41:32 <sebastian> ML: ask for proposal for next week
10:41:55 <sebastian> subtopic: issue #640
10:42:11 <sebastian> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/issues/640
10:43:21 <sebastian> groups agree to remove this assignment
10:44:32 <sebastian> subtopic: issue #639
10:44:36 <sebastian> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/issues/639
10:45:53 <kaz> s/I will/SK: I will/
10:45:55 <benfrancis> q+
10:47:35 <kaz> i/I will/kaz: agree with Ben. given there are 42 normative assertions related to TD within the Architecture spec. I think it would make more sense to review the sections within the Architecture spec which includes those 42 assertions on TD than reviewing all the 42 assertions one by one./
10:48:12 <sebastian> group agrees to remove this assertation
10:48:42 <sebastian> I already created a PR for it
10:48:46 <kaz> s/redness/readiness/
10:48:52 <sebastian> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1301
10:49:03 <sebastian> Ben: I need time to review it
10:49:23 <kaz> s/https/-> https/
10:49:23 <kaz> s/https/-> https/
10:49:56 <kaz> s/641/635 Issue 635 - arch-id-correlation : An identifier in the WoT Thing Description MUST allow for the correlation of multiple TDs representing the same original Thing or ultimately unique physical entity./
10:49:56 <sebastian> subtopic: issue #638
10:50:18 <kaz> s/640/640 Issue 640 - arch-methods : Eligible protocols for W3C WoT MUST be based on a standard set of methods that are known a prior./
10:50:37 <kaz> s/https/-> https/
10:51:07 <sebastian> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/issues/638
10:51:10 <benfrancis> q+
10:51:33 <sebastian> groups decide to remove
10:51:44 <kaz> s/1301/1301 wot-thing-description PR 1301 - update Section 8.3/
10:51:51 <kaz> s/https/-> https/
10:52:19 <kaz> s/638/638 Issue 638 - arch-op-extension : The set of predefined operation types MAY be augmented by Extension operation types chosen by applications./
10:52:24 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
10:52:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/11/25-wot-arch-minutes.html kaz
10:53:04 <kaz> i/given there are/scribenick: kaz/
10:53:14 <sebastian> subtopic: issue #637
10:53:17 <kaz> i/I will check al/scribenick: sebastian/
10:53:19 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
10:53:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/11/25-wot-arch-minutes.html kaz
10:53:19 <sebastian> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/issues/637
10:53:58 <kaz> s/-> ->/->/
10:55:04 <sebastian> ML: TD spec should make clear that the op names case sensitive
10:55:21 <sebastian> Ben: I will take care of it
10:55:35 <kaz> s|https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/issues/639|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/issues/639 Issue 639 - arch-uri-scheme : Eligible protocols for W3C WoT MUST have an associated URI scheme [[!RFC3986]] that is registered with IANA (see [[?IANA-URI-SCHEMES]]).|
10:55:44 <kaz> s/https/-> https/
10:56:09 <kaz> s/637/637 Issue 637 - arch-op-wellknown-compare : Well-known operation types MUST be compared using a case-insensitive comparison./
10:56:10 <sebastian> ML: after having this assertion can be removed
10:56:14 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
10:56:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/11/25-wot-arch-minutes.html kaz
10:56:21 <sebastian> subtopic: issue #636
10:56:34 <sebastian> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/issues/636
10:57:09 <sebastian> group agrees to remove this assertion
10:57:22 <sebastian> subtopic: issue #635
10:57:30 <sebastian> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/issues/635
10:57:33 <kaz> s/https/-> https/
10:57:34 <kaz> s/https/-> https/
10:58:20 <benfrancis> q+
10:58:29 <kaz> s/636/636 Issue 636 - arch-consumer-configuration : The configuration of the Consumer behavior MAY be exposed through the Thing./
10:58:31 <kaz> q?
10:58:36 <sebastian> discuss this yesterday in the TD call
10:58:57 <sebastian> MM: belongs to TD spec and not in Arch
10:59:05 <kaz> s/635/635 Issue 635 - arch-id-correlation : An identifier in the WoT Thing Description MUST allow for the correlation of multiple TDs representing the same original Thing or ultimately unique physical entity./
10:59:34 <kaz> q?
10:59:34 <sebastian> ML: we need to revisit again next week
10:59:39 <kaz> ack b
11:00:06 <sebastian> Ben: +1 to have in the TD spec. Is there a ok to remove from the Arch spec?
11:00:07 <sebastian> yes
11:00:22 <sebastian> s/have/have it
11:01:42 <sebastian> subtopic: issue #634
11:01:53 <sebastian> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/issues/634
11:03:01 <sebastian> group decides to remove it
11:03:53 <kaz> scribenick: kaz
11:04:04 <kaz> s/https/-> https/
11:04:19 <kaz> subtopic: Issue #633
11:05:02 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/issues/633 Issue 633 - arch-property-readable : The state exposed by a Property MUST be retrievable (readable).
11:05:42 <kaz> ml: remove this and will clarify it in TD
11:05:56 <kaz> ... consider mandating in Profile
11:06:01 <kaz> subtopic: Issue #632
11:06:24 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/issues/632 Issue 632 - arch-td-consumers-process : Consumers MUST be able to parse and process the TD representation format, which is based on JSON [[!RFC8259]].
11:06:49 <kaz> ml: wondering about CBOR
11:07:24 <kaz> mm: not precluding CBOR
11:07:37 <kaz> ml: all TD must be JSON?
11:07:58 <kaz> mm: it's rather that every Consumer must process JSON
11:08:53 <benfrancis> q+
11:09:10 <kaz> ack k
11:09:21 <kaz> ben: could be removed from the Architecture spec
11:10:20 <sebastian> q+
11:10:41 <kaz> q+
11:10:44 <kaz> ack b
11:11:02 <kaz> sk: would concentrate on the other topics
11:11:10 <kaz> ml: ok
11:11:26 <kaz> ... let's have the detailed discussion during the TD call
11:11:27 <kaz> q?
11:11:28 <kaz> ack s
11:11:38 <kaz> ack k
11:11:48 <kaz> ... and remove this
11:11:49 <kaz> kaz: ok
11:11:51 <kaz> ack k
11:12:26 <kaz> subtopic: Issue #627
11:12:47 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/issues/632 Issue 627 - Chapter 10 uses non RFC assertions
11:12:54 <kaz> ml: assigned to Ege
11:13:35 <kaz> subtopic: Issue #626
11:13:53 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/issues/626 Issue 626 - Explaining of WoT operations
11:14:44 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/issues/606 related to Issue 606 - Move Table for ops to TD spec
11:14:50 <kaz> ml: need some more discussion
11:15:16 <kaz> ... think the Architecture spec should also explain the ops at a high level
11:15:48 <kaz> ... let's mark this Issue 606 as "blocks publication"
11:15:51 <kaz> q?
11:16:04 <kaz> mm: discuss this in the TD call as well
11:16:17 <kaz> ... kind of odd to have the same information at two places
11:16:21 <kaz> ml: ok
11:16:24 <kaz> ... need some more discussion
11:16:30 <kaz> ... and need a leader for that
11:17:05 <kaz> mm: having the table at one table is one issue
11:17:17 <kaz> ... and having some description is another
11:17:41 <kaz> ... the question is that the table includes too much detail
11:17:50 <kaz> ml: yeah, agree that's too much
11:18:14 <kaz> mm: maybe detailed definitions in TD
11:18:23 <kaz> s/in/should be in/
11:18:53 <kaz> ... suggest we have some text on the Issue itself first
11:19:03 <kaz> ml: ok
11:19:14 <kaz> ... who could work on that?
11:19:18 <kaz> mm: me and Ege
11:19:30 <kaz> ml: tx
11:20:55 <kaz> ... we've reviewed many of the issues marked as "blocks publication" today
11:25:20 <kaz> ... need further clarification about the 3 categories defined by Issue 641
11:25:38 <kaz> [[
11:25:38 <kaz> clarify the assertion in the architecture specification
11:25:38 <kaz> move the text section to the TD specification
11:25:38 <kaz> delete from the architecture specification
11:25:39 <kaz> ]]
11:25:48 <kaz> kaz: ok
11:26:01 <kaz> ... @@@
11:26:33 <kaz> ml: have we got owners for each issue yet?
11:26:49 <kaz> mm: you can assign me to Issue 635
11:27:01 <kaz> ml: (assigns McCool to Issue 635)
11:27:28 <kaz> i/we've/topic: Next steps/
11:27:37 <kaz> ml: what about Issue 638?
11:28:14 <kaz> i|what|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/issues/635 Issue 635|
11:28:27 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/issues/638 Issue 638
11:28:33 <kaz> (no volunteers)
11:28:39 <kaz> ml: let's see next week again
11:28:46 <kaz> ... and Issue 626?
11:29:05 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/issues/626 Issue 626
11:29:09 <kaz> (McCool and Ege)
11:29:50 <kaz> ml: (have added "remove" label to the issue to remove the assertion)
11:29:53 <kaz> topic: Profile
11:30:29 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/labels/blocks%20publication Issues marked as "blocks publication"
11:30:37 <kaz> ml: (goes through the issues)
11:31:02 <kaz> ... we need prioritization here
11:31:19 <kaz> ... we need to see resolution for these issues
11:31:24 <kaz> ben: ys
11:31:27 <kaz> s/ys/yes/
11:31:41 <kaz> ml: some more additional labels as well
11:31:51 <kaz> ... e.g., "close-next-week"
11:32:32 <kaz> ... for example, Issue 56
11:32:57 <kaz> ben: sorry I confused things
11:33:06 <kaz> ... intention was simply can be closed
11:33:14 <kaz> ml: ok
11:33:23 <kaz> ... let's concentrate on "blocks publication" then
11:34:36 <kaz> ... regarding the issues marked as "close-next-week" can be marked as "close" to show it's proposed to be closed
11:34:41 <kaz> ben: can change the label
11:35:30 <kaz> ml: would like to use the remaining time to find a review for each issue marked as "block publication"
11:36:01 <kaz> ... can have some more offline discussions if needed
11:36:19 <kaz> ... first, let's try to find owners
11:36:28 <kaz> subtopic: Issue 144
11:36:57 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/issues/144 Issue 144 - Outdated reference to Architecture spec
11:37:01 <kaz> ben: can work on that
11:37:05 <kaz> ml: tx
11:37:26 <kaz> subtopic: Issue 142
11:37:35 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/issues/142 Issue 142 - Clarify RFC7807 Problem Details Format constraints
11:37:40 <kaz> ben: happy to take this too
11:37:44 <kaz> ... no action needed
11:37:49 <kaz> ml: ok
11:38:55 <kaz> subtopic: Issue 141
11:39:08 <kaz> kaz: not marked as "blocks publication"
11:39:20 <kaz> ml: forgot to mark it, and adding the label
11:39:29 <kaz> sk: can work on this or with Daniel
11:39:45 <kaz> ml: personally would having a single form
11:40:00 <kaz> i|not|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/issues/141 Issue 141 - how to handle multiple forms|
11:40:13 <kaz> sk: it's always problematic
11:40:42 <kaz> ... possible use cases should include IPv4 vs IPv6
11:40:53 <kaz> ... depending on the support by the Consumers
11:41:03 <kaz> ml: it requires some more discussion
11:41:15 <kaz> ... (adds the label of "needs discussion")
11:41:56 <kaz> sk: if we can have multiple forms, I'm happy to work on that issue
11:42:06 <kaz> ... but if we need more discussion, would wait a bit
11:42:53 <kaz> kaz: are you still ok to be assigned?
11:42:55 <kaz> sk: yes
11:43:03 <kaz> subtopic: Issue 140
11:43:25 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/issues/140 Issue 140 - Add reference to security best practices document
11:43:28 <kaz> ben: can take it
11:43:34 <kaz> subtopic: Issue 132
11:44:01 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/issues/132 Issue 132 - Normative Canonicalisation format
11:44:12 <kaz> mm: had read the canonicalization part
11:44:24 <kaz> ... the term "canonicalization" itself is not correct any more
11:44:30 <benfrancis> q+
11:44:41 <kaz> ... all the constraint description to be move to the Profile spec, I think
11:45:01 <kaz> ... the question is if we need the constraints, one by one
11:45:36 <kaz> kaz: are you ok with working on this issue?
11:45:39 <kaz> mm: yes
11:45:45 <kaz> kaz: tx
11:45:47 <kaz> q?
11:45:54 <kaz> ack b
11:46:19 <kaz> ben: strongly disagree moving the canonicalization section to Profile
11:46:41 <kaz> mm: note that it's actually not about "canonicalization"
11:46:53 <kaz> ben: discussing potential constraints?
11:47:30 <kaz> ... we definitely don't want to require canonical format
11:47:42 <kaz> mm: right
11:48:18 <kaz> ... so let's remove the description from Architecture first
11:48:27 <kaz> ... and then continue discussion on how to deal with that
11:48:43 <kaz> ml: (adds comments on the discussion)
11:49:14 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/issues/132#issuecomment-979137729 Lagally's comments
11:49:21 <kaz> subtopic: Issue 120
11:49:48 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/issues/120 Issue 120 - Complete or remove JSON Schema of the Core Profile
11:50:04 <kaz> ml: think we should remove this
11:50:31 <benfrancis> q+
11:50:44 <kaz> sk: having multiple JSON Schema for different purposes would be confusing
11:50:48 <kaz> q?
11:51:02 <kaz> mm: JSON Schema is a set of constraint
11:51:16 <kaz> ... could use it for additional constraints
11:51:19 <kaz> ml: right
11:51:21 <kaz> ack b
11:51:33 <kaz> ben: don't have problem with having JSON Schema itself
11:51:42 <kaz> ... but need clarification
11:51:48 <kaz> ml: ok
11:52:03 <kaz> ... consensus to add a JSON Schema
11:52:41 <kaz> ... should rely on the Schema from the TD spec and provide additional rules/validations/constraints if any
11:53:05 <kaz> ... the set of constraints needs to be consolidated first
11:53:14 <kaz> ... before we can define the schema itself
11:53:22 <kaz> ben: ok
11:53:36 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/issues/120#issuecomment-979140725 Lagally's comments
11:53:43 <kaz> subtopic: Issue 107
11:54:14 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/issues/107 Issue 107 - Events - Scalable event mechanism for cloud use cases
11:54:19 <kaz> ml: will take this
11:54:25 <kaz> subtopic: Issue 60
11:54:53 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/issues/60 Issue 60 - Allow multiple forms for interaction affordances in Core Profile
11:55:01 <kaz> sk: can work on this
11:55:14 <kaz> ... same as another discussion
11:55:21 <kaz> ben: not completely the same
11:55:38 <kaz> ml: overlap with Issue 141
11:56:35 <kaz> subtopic: Issue 17
11:56:44 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/issues/17 Issue 17 - Vocabulary not in TD context
11:56:51 <kaz> ml: Sebastian?
11:57:00 <kaz> sk: we've already covered this, I think
11:57:24 <kaz> ... only geolocation is covered by TD, though
11:57:29 <kaz> ... can take this issue
11:57:44 <kaz> mm: builtin ontology and external ones
11:57:46 <benfrancis> q+
11:58:14 <kaz> ack b
11:58:49 <kaz> ben: Sebastian has already removed the term
11:58:53 <kaz> ... need to update the note
11:58:56 <kaz> ... an help
11:58:59 <kaz> s/an/can/
11:59:20 <kaz> subtopic: Issue 10
11:59:43 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/issues/10 Issue 10 - Reduce the number of constraints in section 5.1 WoT Core Data Model
12:00:02 <kaz> mm: probably we'll discuss during the Security call too
12:00:27 <kaz> ml: would propose assigning this issue to Ben, McCool, Sebastian and myself
12:01:02 <kaz> subtopic: Issue 6
12:01:19 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/issues/6 Issue 6 - Recommended Security
12:01:28 <kaz> mm: assign this to me
12:01:54 <kaz> subtopic: Issue 5
12:02:03 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/issues/5 Issue 5 - "Core" profile name has undesired implications
12:02:06 <kaz> ml: to me
12:02:33 <kaz> subtopic: Issue 3
12:02:42 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/issues/3 Issue 3 - Evaluate Data Schema Constraints
12:02:48 <kaz> ben: duplicated with Issue 10
12:02:54 <kaz> ... Issue 10 is broader
12:03:03 <kaz> ... so this is subset of Issue 10
12:03:09 <kaz> ml: ok
12:03:25 <kaz> ... assign this to the 4 reviewers for Issue 10 then
12:04:16 <kaz> ... i.e., Ben, McCool, Sebastian and myself
12:04:28 <benfrancis> q+
12:04:41 <kaz> ... for the next call, would expect concrete PRs
12:05:16 <kaz> s/concrete/to discuss/
12:05:20 <kaz> q?
12:05:37 <kaz> ... please continue to work on the issues/PRs
12:05:54 <kaz> ben: fundamental issues to be clarified
12:05:59 <kaz> ... so need prioritization
12:06:02 <kaz> ml: yes
12:06:07 <kaz> ... aob?
12:06:23 <kaz> (none)
12:06:28 <kaz> [adjourned]
12:06:36 <kaz> s/[adjourned]//
12:06:51 <kaz> ml: will generate another Doodle for possible new slot
12:07:02 <kaz> ... thank you very much for your contributions
12:07:05 <kaz> [adjourned]
12:07:19 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:07:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/11/25-wot-arch-minutes.html kaz
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