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13:04:36 <kaz> meeting: WoT-IG/WG
13:05:10 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Sebastian_Kaebisch, Kunihiko_Toumura, Michael_McCool, Michael_Koster, Tomoaki_Mizushima
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13:05:22 <kaz> present+ Daniel_Peintner
13:05:47 <kaz> present+ Tetsushi_Matsuda
13:06:10 <McCool> agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Main_WoT_WebConf#24_November_2021
13:07:14 <McCool> topic: minutes review
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13:07:25 <McCool> seb: from nov 17
13:07:36 <kaz> i|17|-> https://www.w3.org/2021/11/17-wot-minutes.html Nov-17|
13:08:06 <kaz> present+ Ben_Francis
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13:12:48 <McCool> mm: section on WG charter is a little confused, pls rename to WG Extension and Rechartering since we discussed both
13:12:51 <McCool> kaz: done
13:12:57 <McCool> topic: quick updates
13:13:06 <McCool> seb: mm to speak at IoT Tech Expo
13:14:04 <McCool> mm: note 40 panel, 4 people, I will have only about 10m
13:14:32 <McCool> seb: editor sync up, various cleanup topics
13:14:44 <McCool> ... want to avoid some contradictory assertions
13:15:06 <kaz> i/mm to/subtopic: IoT Tech Expo on Nov 30/
13:15:08 <McCool> ... and also align and consolidate terminology and use cases into the appropriate document
13:15:27 <kaz> i/editor sync/subtopic: Editors sync-up call/
13:17:00 <McCool> mm: note I was not able to attend due to timeslot but I did review the minutes and put topics on the discovery TF agenda
13:17:34 <kaz> i|editor sync|-> https://www.w3.org/2021/11/23-wot-ed-minutes.html Nov-23 (Member-only)|
13:17:37 <McCool> ml: would also be useful to have use cases for scripting, e.g. application runtime
13:19:15 <McCool> ml: also discovery vs. profiles
13:20:59 <McCool> ml: would be good for profile to insist that devices using the profile all support .well-known endpoint
13:21:27 <McCool> ml: then we also remembered that we need a TD Ontology doc...
13:22:21 <kaz> q+
13:22:46 <kaz> ack k
13:23:12 <McCool> mm: we also need to discuss whether is should be frozen, how we deal with versions and bug fixes, etc
13:23:34 <kaz> kaz: the topic needs more discussion, so the conclusion during the Editors call was also discussing that during the TD call separately
13:23:50 <kaz> s/kaz: the topic needs more discussion, so the conclusion during the Editors call was also discussing that during the TD call separately//
13:24:02 <McCool> seb: new (tentative) arch call at 5am EST/10am UTC
13:24:13 <kaz> i|we also|kaz: the topic needs more discussion, so the conclusion during the Editors call was also discussing that during the TD call separately|
13:25:14 <kaz> q+
13:25:50 <McCool> ml: going forward we may want to do another doodle...
13:26:19 <kaz> ack k
13:28:31 <McCool> topic: charters
13:28:36 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
13:28:40 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:28:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/11/24-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:29:13 <McCool> seb: for IG charter, have prepared, got some feedback, did some updates, found some more typos, now have another update...
13:30:04 <McCool> ... in general IGs do not create specifications, only documents
13:30:10 <kaz> i/arch call at/subtopic: Architecture call/
13:30:13 <McCool> ... so various wording changes to address that
13:30:27 <kaz> i/topic: charters/subtopic: WoT-JP CG update/
13:30:37 <McCool> ... we also removed the 3mo wide review; and no CR process
13:31:01 <McCool> ... and fixed the name change for ECLASS
13:31:12 <kaz> i/topic: charters/mizu: discussion on how to run the group's discussion, e.g., using projects. after getting conclusion, would like to have an online event to start actual work./
13:31:21 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:31:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/11/24-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:31:34 <kaz> q+
13:32:16 <McCool> kaz: note there are two PRs updating the IG charter, one from Ralph, one from PLH
13:32:34 <McCool> ... probably better to merge the one from PLH first, which addresses the "Marketing TF"
13:33:27 <McCool> ... also added a plugfest history section
13:33:34 <kaz> ack k
13:34:01 <sebastian> https://github.com/w3c/wot/pull/1006
13:34:21 <McCool> proposal: after merging PR #1006 and #1008, resubmit the updated IG charter draft to W3M for approval
13:35:37 <sebastian> resolution: after merging PR #1006 and #1008, resubmit the updated IG charter draft to W3M for approval
13:36:09 <McCool> topic: wg extension
13:36:48 <McCool> seb: last week we agreed on 12mo extension, but W3M noted that we technically have to update the charter
13:36:55 <McCool> ... small updates only, to the dates
13:37:13 <kaz> q+
13:37:40 <mlagally> q+
13:37:42 <McCool> ... but also to the patent policy 2020; AC review will take place
13:37:56 <kaz> q- later
13:39:14 <mlagally> q-
13:39:44 <McCool> mm: note that we can do editor's drafts for new deliverables during the extension, and technically can do publications for TD2.0, since it is in the current charter already
13:40:01 <kaz> ack k
13:40:30 <McCool> kaz: I will make the changes to the charter
13:40:41 <McCool> seb: do we need another resolution?
13:41:04 <McCool> kaz: prev resolution was during arch call, so it would be best to have one today in the main call
13:46:24 <sebastian> proposal: group agrees  to proceed with the 12month charter extension for the WoT WG with the requested changes from W3M following the recharter processes.
13:47:04 <sebastian> resolution: group agrees to proceed with the 12month charter extension for the WoT WG with the requested changes from W3M following the rechartering processes.
13:47:20 <kaz> action: kaz to work on the updated WG Charter with new end date
13:48:31 <McCool> topic: decision process
13:48:58 <McCool> bf: have a proposal, #1005, to allow us to resolve PRs without waiting for a call
13:49:11 <kaz> i|have|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot/pull/1005 wot PR 1005 - Asynchronous Review Process for Specification Changes|
13:49:15 <McCool> ... this would be specifically for specs, using github code review tools
13:49:53 <McCool> ... this is in line with the charter, which actually favors async decisions (calls are supposed to be provisional)
13:50:09 <kaz> q?
13:50:16 <McCool> ... would like to get feedback from the group, timescale on when this can be applied, etc.
13:50:34 <McCool> seb: my view is that I would agree in general, but depends on details
13:50:46 <kaz> q+
13:50:57 <McCool> ... makes sense especially for smaller editorial items
13:51:31 <McCool> ... and tools also help us to document the decision, e.g. why we decided
13:51:51 <McCool> ... on the other hand, if there is a complex decision to be made, the meetings are useful to get agreement
13:52:03 <McCool> q+
13:52:05 <McCool> q?
13:52:13 <kaz> q- later
13:52:44 <McCool> bf: thanks for the comments; have proposed two different processes for informative and normative changes
13:52:58 <kaz> i|have a proposal|-> https://github.com/benfrancis/w3c-wot/blob/patch-3/proposals/asynchronous-review-process.md rendered proposal|
13:53:37 <kaz> present+ Fady_Salama
13:53:42 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:53:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/11/24-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:54:32 <McCool> ... some things do need sync discussions; basically that is the fallback plan if consensus cannot be
13:54:48 <McCool> mm: details do matter, but in principle agree
13:54:55 <McCool> ... what is timeline?
13:55:06 <McCool> bf: don't really want to wait for the new charter
13:55:27 <McCool> ... would be helpful to speed up our current process, but understand people need time to review and update
13:55:50 <mlagally> q+
13:55:58 <kaz> ack mc
13:56:17 <kaz> ack k
13:56:26 <McCool> mm: perhaps we can aim for mid-Jan to adopt, but after some discussion and review?
13:56:38 <McCool> ml: is a good idea to discuss and formalize the review rules
13:56:59 <McCool> ... currently have no good rules, e.g. about how many reviewers we need, etc.
13:57:03 <kaz> i/ml:/kaz: agree with McCool (that we need a clear process definition)/
13:57:36 <benfrancis> q+
13:57:41 <kaz> ack ml
13:57:43 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:57:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/11/24-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:58:09 <McCool> ml: and let's try out the process on this PR in particular
13:58:11 <kaz> chair: Sebastian/McCool
13:58:17 <Mizushima> +1 McCool
13:58:32 <kaz> i/the topic needs more/scribenick: kaz/
13:58:45 <kaz> i/we also need to discuss/scribenick: McCool/
13:58:52 <McCool> mm: agree, and let's aim for mid-Jan to capture input and put it on the table again
13:58:57 <kaz> i/discussion on how to run/scribenick: kaz/
13:59:06 <kaz> i/for IG charter,/scribenick: McCool/
13:59:08 <McCool> seb: will also discuss in main call
13:59:10 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:59:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/11/24-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:59:32 <McCool> q+
13:59:41 <kaz> i/agree with M/scribenick: kaz/
13:59:54 <kaz> i/is a good idea/scribenick: McCool/
13:59:56 <kaz> q?
13:59:58 <kaz> ack b
14:00:00 <McCool> seb: definitely I agree that small changes should follow an async process
14:01:16 <McCool> mm: I also think the issue closing process can be improved
14:02:24 <McCool> ... also TFs could start apply some bits of the proposed process informally, at the discretion of the TF (consensus needed)
14:02:51 <McCool> seb: ok, we will talk about this more in the TD call, would also be good to discuss in Arch and Profiles
14:03:21 <McCool> topic: marketing
14:03:32 <McCool> seb: new wiki pages, less space, same content
14:03:46 <mlagally> q+
14:04:52 <McCool> seb: regarding liaisons, WISHI call next week, will attend, present TMs
14:05:08 <McCool> ... regarding OPC-UA, meeting with Jeff Jaffe planned
14:05:30 <McCool> ml: section in use cases document for liaisons, some placeholders
14:05:54 <McCool> ... regarding wiki page reconstructions
14:05:56 <McCool> q+"
14:06:39 <McCool> ml: might be good to make it easier to find the main call, perhaps main web page
14:06:53 <McCool> mm: agree, let's discuss in marketing
14:07:04 <McCool> seb: let's start testing at 15 past
14:07:09 <McCool> seb: adjourn
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14:07:59 <kaz> [adjourned]
14:08:04 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:08:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/11/24-wot-minutes.html kaz
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15:10:31 <kaz> regrets+ Ege
15:10:32 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:10:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/11/24-wot-minutes.html kaz
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