06:01:07 RRSAgent has joined #dap 06:01:07 logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/11/17-dap-irc 06:01:30 larsgk has joined #dap 06:01:33 willmorgan has joined #dap 06:02:12 present+ tomayac, larsgk, rakuco, anssik, willmorgan, marcosc_, reillyg2, xfq 06:02:30 Zakim, prepare meeting 06:02:30 RRSAgent, make logs Public 06:02:31 please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), anssik 06:02:59 Meeting: DAS WG Brightness mode follow-up meeting 06:03:30 Present+ Anssi_Kostiainen 06:03:40 Present+ Fuqiao_Xue 06:03:45 Present+ Marcos_Caceres 06:03:55 Present+ Raphael_Kubo_da_Costa 06:04:05 Present+ Will_Morgon 06:04:13 Present+ Lars_Knudsen 06:04:23 Present+ Thomas_Steiner 06:04:26 Present+ Reilly_Grant 06:04:35 RRSAgent, draft minutes 06:04:35 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/11/17-dap-minutes.html anssik 06:05:11 Summary here: https://github.com/w3c/screen-wake-lock/issues/129#issuecomment-817151517 06:05:46 Scribe: Anssi 06:05:49 scribeNick: anssik 06:06:20 Topic: Review Will's proposal 06:07:28 [will recapping his proposal https://github.com/w3c/screen-wake-lock/issues/129#issuecomment-817151517 ] 06:08:22 present- tomayac, larsgk, rakuco, anssik, willmorgan, marcosc_, reillyg2, xfq 06:08:37 willmorgan: in my key use case, need to increase the brightness for a few seconds only 06:10:49 Is there a recommendation when it comes to en-US vs. en-GB language? Will wrote maximise vs. maximize. Using maximum instead would help us move around this issue. 06:10:51 q+ 06:10:53 anssik: is the use cases list in order of importance? 06:11:03 willmorgan: yes, kind of, perhaps netflix use case should be higher on the list 06:11:28 marcosc: netflix did not really propose anything but shared with us what they're doing in native 06:11:39 tomayac: François has reached out to Netflix. 06:11:53 reillyg: use cases are important, but maybe we try too hard to try to identify them 06:11:58 q+ 06:12:35 ack reillyg 06:12:38 ... user surfaced controls for video in the netflix use case seem orthogonal 06:13:18 anssik: should we solve the netflix use case separate and say it is out of scope for the wake lock brightness feature? 06:13:48 reillyg: we can draw parallel to volume control for video that is not a global setting 06:14:21 s/separate/separately 06:15:11 q? 06:16:10 ack larsgk 06:16:12 mc: confirming that Netflix boost the actual system brightness 06:16:26 scribe+ marcosc_ 06:16:59 larsgk: I'm figuring our why a user wants a web page to boost brightness 06:17:17 present+ Juha_Vainio 06:17:30 ... accidentally max brightness in cinema is my concern 06:18:07 willmorgan: for my use case, we're calibrating env brightness from dark and bring extremes, basically gives us a contrast score 06:18:24 Juha has joined #dap 06:18:40 ... DOM element with a slides (to adjust brightness) is an interesting proposal 06:18:52 s/slides/slider 06:18:55 larsgk: you cannot trust screens for color correctness 06:19:20 reillyg: the key benefit for in-app brightness control of netflix style app is I don't need to figure out how to adjust the platform control 06:19:26 q? 06:19:30 q+ 06:20:29 q+ 06:20:35 q? 06:21:33 anssik: bail out should be as easy as exit fullscreen 06:21:36 ack marcosc_ 06:22:11 marcosc_: want to complement reilly re screen brightness control, with netflix use case you're looking at the image when adjusting the setting 06:22:40 ... im will's case the same situation does not apply, you want to make the screen bright as possible 06:22:47 s/im/in 06:22:51 q? 06:23:35 marcosc_: with HDR screen, they can go bright, leads us to brightness vs contrast 06:23:51 ... my monitor allows to max brightness and contrast, two knobs 06:23:53 q? 06:24:44 marcosc_: there's also CSS prefers-more-contrast to put the page in high contrast mode 06:25:23 s/prefers-more-contrast/prefers-contrast: more 06:25:26 willmorgan: my particular use case does not care about contrast 06:25:35 ... barcode scanning probably useful 06:25:53 ... in terms of color sensitivity test or mirror apps, not sure they would benefit 06:26:10 Barcode scanning is _the_ no. 1 barcode where we have heard developer demand for. 06:26:16 ... how is that done today on native? is there a way to modify screen contrast on Android or iOS? 06:26:31 ... on macOS you can go to accessibility mode 06:26:32 s/barcode where/use case where 06:26:43 reillyg: that's modifying widgets to make them render differently 06:26:46 q? 06:27:11 https://github.com/w3c/screen-wake-lock/issues/129#issuecomment-971235292 06:27:42 tom: that's accessibility setting, for people who need more contrast 06:28:34 larsgk: I implemented emulation of contrast in my past life 06:29:52 tom: #1 we started this was QR code scanning 06:30:19 ... QR code is the mainstream use case 06:30:45 q+ 06:30:46 q+ 06:30:48 q? 06:31:07 q+ 06:31:08 ack larsgk 06:31:11 ack marcosc_ 06:31:27 marcosc_: agree brightness is a component of this 06:32:11 ... I think Mark of Netflix said we can probably do more here 06:32:35 q? 06:32:51 ack willmorgan 06:33:19 willmorgan: I think, as you say marcos, there are many things monitors and OSes can do 06:33:28 ... interesting, potentially you could integrate that into this proposal 06:34:07 ... if we do this contrast only, how that affects branding (in logos etc)? 06:34:36 ... in GH there was a proposal for fullscreen integration, that is more heavily policed by browsers currently 06:35:07 nested a 3rd party iframe grabbing a wake lock not a good thing 06:35:57 willmorgan: question is, do we put this into wake lock of fullscreen? 06:35:59 ack reillyg 06:36:09 adjusting display (all pixels rendering) by applying a curve mapping for RGB might be what is needed in some of the cases mentioned 06:36:28 reillyg: different proposal, if we are willing to limit this to having an element on the page be scannable 06:36:47 ... I'd propose this to not be an API but a CSS property that tells div in this layout is a "QR code" 06:37:57 q+ 06:38:21 anssik: interesting proposal, enables maxing brightness when QR code scrolls into view and dim screen after 06:39:10 s/enables/enables UA to 06:39:29 willmorgan: I'd like to see more details to better understand this proposal 06:41:07 q? 06:41:19 ack willmorgan 06:41:37 q+ 06:41:41 willmorgan: how would the develop know if CSS property is in effect or not? 06:41:48 ... in my use case need to know that 06:42:13 q- 06:42:41 ... we need to be able to do fallback 06:42:43 q? 06:43:41 anssik: rakuco are we touching your issues and opens? 06:44:01 rakuco: we're exploring new things 06:44:37 q+ 06:44:41 q+ 06:45:45 anssik: I'd advocate for the simplest solution that gets the work done while being extensible 06:46:07 tom: I like the imperativeness of screen wake lock 06:46:39 ... on system-level, it'd be good to see if this feature is actively used, user-visible indicator 06:46:56 ... I would not tie to fullscreen, not all use cases require fullscreen 06:47:20 ... none of the key apps using QR codes do not go fullscreen 06:47:26 ack reillyg 06:47:50 reillyg: my feeling i, we could put this in Screen Wake Lock and Fullscreen too, fullscreen has good mitigations for abuse, 06:47:52 q+ 06:49:12 ... for wake lock we can block iframes from using this feature 06:49:12 ... dismissing wake lock is easy by turning the screen off, not as actively annoying as maxing brightness 06:49:12 q? 06:49:13 q? 06:49:38 reillyg: making this require a user gesture is one mitigation 06:50:18 ... if the site keeps making the screen bright we could stop that, also add button "make screen bright again" 06:50:34 q? 06:52:06 q? 06:52:13 document.requestMaximumBrightness() 06:52:33 + some kind of "scannable element" CSS property. 06:52:42 q? 06:52:53 ack marcosc 06:53:05 marcosc: agree with reilly, but would approach it differently 06:53:21 ... low hanging fruit is the video element, strong use case, but does not solve barcode use case 06:53:23 q+ 06:53:58 ... if we have the slides in video, that may be an easier path to something common, to try out first 06:54:09 ... may also address some of Will's use case 06:54:22 ... if the color palettes are added through video element 06:54:33 reillyg: I have strong reservations for that from implementation perspective 06:55:07 ... there's a lot of ideas in this space, what if we can stick trusted UI inside an element, that's problematic 06:55:33 marcosc: how you do replacement in