IRC log of rdf-star on 2021-11-12

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:03:17 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #rdf-star
16:03:17 [RRSAgent]
logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/11/12-rdf-star-irc
16:03:19 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, make logs Public
16:03:20 [Zakim]
please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), pchampin
16:03:22 [pchampin]
meeting: RDF-star
16:03:31 [gkellogg]
present+
16:03:41 [pchampin]
present+
16:03:44 [AndyS]
present+
16:03:46 [ora]
present+
16:03:47 [pchampin]
regrets: olaf
16:03:54 [Doerthe]
present+
16:04:01 [pchampin]
Previous meeting: https://w3c.github.io/rdf-star/Minutes/2021-10-29.html
16:04:02 [pchampin]
Next meeting: https://w3c.github.io/rdf-star/Minutes/2021-11-26.html
16:04:14 [AndyS]
RRSAgent, make logs public
16:04:48 [AndyS]
scribe: AndyS
16:04:49 [pchampin]
zakim, next agendum
16:04:49 [Zakim]
agendum 1 -- Announcements and newcomers -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:05:03 [pchampin]
q?
16:05:15 [pchampin]
zakim, close agendum
16:05:15 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'close agendum', pchampin
16:05:20 [pchampin]
zakim, close this item
16:05:20 [Zakim]
agendum 1 closed
16:05:21 [Zakim]
I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:05:21 [Zakim]
2. Open actions [from agendabot]
16:05:25 [pchampin]
zakim, next agendum
16:05:25 [Zakim]
agendum 2 -- Open actions -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:05:33 [pchampin]
https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3Aaction
16:06:28 [pchampin]
q?
16:06:42 [pchampin]
zakim, close this item
16:06:42 [Zakim]
agendum 2 closed
16:06:43 [Zakim]
I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:06:43 [Zakim]
3. Conformance section [from agendabot]
16:06:45 [pchampin]
zakim, next agendum
16:06:45 [Zakim]
agendum 3 -- Conformance section -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:06:49 [pchampin]
https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star/issues/3
16:08:49 [pchampin]
action: AndyS to make a PR to address issue #3
16:09:00 [fabio]
fabio has joined #rdf-star
16:09:05 [pchampin]
q?
16:09:14 [fabio]
present +
16:09:14 [pchampin]
zakim, next agendum
16:09:14 [Zakim]
agendum 4 -- Debunking RDF-star myths in the intro -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:09:18 [fabio]
hello
16:09:32 [pchampin]
https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star/issues/64
16:10:59 [pchampin]
https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star/issues/219
16:11:12 [AndyS]
<<>> are unique terms in a graph -- so not a straight replacement for LPG (or all refication usages) - <<>> are a building block.
16:12:06 [AndyS]
PFPS wants earlier mention of opaquacity..
16:12:19 [AndyS]
phcampin: don't want intro to be too long.
16:12:27 [pchampin]
q?
16:12:36 [AndyS]
... but should have longer than we currently have.
16:12:45 [TallTed]
Might it be worth encouraging authors of those now- (possibly always-) erroneous papers to add some sort of note to that effect to (or at least nearby) those papers?
16:13:09 [gkellogg]
+1 to adding such material to the intro.
16:13:36 [TallTed]
+1 for adding to the RDF-star intro, for sure
16:13:43 [AndyS]
pchampin: can suggest to the authors.
16:13:49 [ora]
q+
16:14:05 [AndyS]
... some triplestore vendor examples are also misleading.
16:14:06 [pchampin]
ack ora
16:14:21 [TallTed]
Yes, I'm not suggesting a wall-of-shame, but rather reaching out to the authors directly.
16:14:42 [pchampin]
action: ora to suggest to Olaf and Bryan to amend their paper on arXiv
16:15:00 [pchampin]
q?
16:15:24 [pchampin]
action: pchampin to make a PR to address issues #69 and #219
16:15:51 [fabio]
"Common misunderstandings about RDF*"
16:16:25 [fabio]
It looks more material for a FAQ than a section in the document
16:16:40 [TallTed]
Common misperceptions about...
16:17:19 [TallTed]
*heh* as IRC hiccups and reveals fabio's "Common misunderstandings" :-)
16:17:48 [AndyS]
pchampin: material is already in the report - we are trying to help readers from jumping to a wrong conclusion basd on old material
16:18:07 [fabio]
Excusatio non petita accusation manifesta
16:18:08 [AndyS]
fabio: may be risky to put too early
16:18:11 [gkellogg]
q+
16:18:16 [fabio]
accusatio
16:18:22 [fabio]
I have it in Latin, sorry
16:19:08 [AndyS]
gkellogg: support adding clarification text.
16:19:26 [fabio]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excusatio_non_petita,_accusatio_manifesta
16:19:54 [gkellogg]
q-
16:20:05 [AndyS]
... balance to be struck regarding negatives and positives.
16:20:48 [TallTed]
"Common troublesome misconceptions..." or "Common misperceptions that can lead to failure of interop" or ...
16:21:19 [TallTed]
At least flagging that such exist should be in the intro. Full details may be better placed elsewhere and linked from intro.
16:21:57 [AndyS]
pchampin: will propose text
16:22:02 [pchampin]
q?
16:22:59 [pchampin]
q?
16:23:06 [pchampin]
zakim, next agendum
16:23:06 [Zakim]
agendum 5 -- Publishing a final report -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:23:21 [AndyS]
... these are the only open actions needing work - rest are discussion-ish or "later"
16:23:55 [AndyS]
pchampin: on the path to chartering the WG.
16:25:05 [pchampin]
q?
16:25:06 [AndyS]
... publish at a dated URL
16:25:22 [AndyS]
+1 to final report
16:26:28 [pchampin]
PROPOSED: after the remaining PRs are merged, defer any new issue to the future WG, and publish a final report
16:26:33 [pchampin]
+1
16:26:35 [TallTed]
+1
16:26:37 [gkellogg]
+1
16:26:39 [AndyS]
+1
16:26:40 [Doerthe]
+1
16:26:42 [fabio]
+1
16:26:55 [ora]
+1
16:26:58 [ora]
sorry
16:27:01 [pchampin]
RESOLVED: after the remaining PRs are merged, defer any new issue to the future WG, and publish a final report
16:27:45 [AndyS]
pchampin: can still update editors draft is necessary.
16:28:20 [AndyS]
... ideally not updating the final report
16:28:20 [TallTed]
CG Final Report is similar to a NOTE. Can be updated/replaced whenever a group that has control over it wants.
16:28:56 [fabio]
So this is the final meeting of this group?
16:29:53 [AndyS]
... we need to accept the PRs and vote on the final report.
16:30:03 [AndyS]
... also charter discussion
16:30:13 [pchampin]
q?
16:30:30 [pchampin]
zakim, next agendum
16:30:30 [Zakim]
agendum 6 -- WG chartering -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:30:49 [pchampin]
https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg-charter/issues
16:31:16 [pchampin]
https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg-charter/issues/1
16:31:17 [pchampin]
q?
16:32:22 [ora]
q+
16:32:27 [pchampin]
ack ora
16:32:27 [AndyS]
pchampin: one or two WGs? touchs on RDF and SPARQL , then maybe split work streams. Closely related anyway so 2 has little advantage.
16:32:59 [AndyS]
ora: multiple WG -- unless there is a clear separation, then one is better.
16:33:16 [AndyS]
... RDF , RDFS were two WG and was a bit confusing.
16:33:31 [ora]
q+
16:33:57 [ora]
q-
16:34:09 [AndyS]
... bigger WG can have task forces - coordination is the key.
16:34:34 [pchampin]
q?
16:34:42 [AndyS]
pchampin: one WG.
16:34:59 [pchampin]
https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg-charter/issues/2
16:35:31 [ora]
q+
16:35:33 [TallTed]
should note the current understanding of the group, in at least a few words, when closing these issues
16:36:06 [AndyS]
pchampin: RDF/XML - mixed feelings about whether to include or not.
16:36:55 [gkellogg]
RDFa can technically work on XML, not just HTML.
16:37:11 [AndyS]
... may be "any XML serialization" so TriX-star would be better approach - includes datasets.
16:37:35 [gkellogg]
q+
16:37:39 [AndyS]
... addresses the "XML toolchain" even if not update RDF/XML.
16:37:40 [AndyS]
q+
16:37:52 [pchampin]
ack ora
16:38:15 [AndyS]
ora: RDF/XML ... pass it's sell-by date. (scribe: +1)
16:38:44 [AndyS]
... happy to leave it alone
16:38:52 [TallTed]
q?
16:38:58 [pchampin]
ack gkellogg
16:39:50 [AndyS]
gkellogg: compatibility issues if reusing existing reification hook.
16:40:15 [AndyS]
... make RDF/XML "archaic"
16:41:05 [AndyS]
... trix -- tighten up -- claim is use in stylesheet
16:41:17 [pchampin]
q?
16:42:01 [pchampin]
ack AndyS
16:44:33 [AndyS]
pchampin: some perception that RDF-star "is" reification -- it's not.
16:48:16 [pchampin]
PROPOSAL: mark the updating of RDF/XML as optional in the draft charter
16:48:18 [pchampin]
+1
16:48:32 [fabio]
+1
16:48:32 [gkellogg]
+1
16:48:34 [AndyS]
+1
16:48:35 [Doerthe]
+1
16:48:40 [TallTed]
+1
16:48:49 [ora]
+1
16:48:59 [pchampin]
RESOLVED: mark the updating of RDF/XML as optional in the draft charter
16:49:15 [pchampin]
action: pchampin to mark RDF/XML as optional in the charter
16:49:22 [gkellogg]
q=
16:50:27 [pchampin]
https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg-charter/issues/6
16:50:40 [AndyS]
qkellogg: note CSV, TSV formats
16:51:03 [AndyS]
... and CSVW
16:52:57 [AndyS]
... some uptick in interest in CSVW
16:53:16 [AndyS]
... need a way to give option to update
16:53:23 [AndyS]
q?
16:55:12 [AndyS]
AndyS: can we enumerate the "documents in scope" so if the WG has the energy, then they can be done.
16:56:18 [AndyS]
... (R2RML, SHACL, RDFa, JSON-LD)
16:57:05 [AndyS]
... and OWL
16:58:03 [AndyS]
pchampin: many possible documents
16:58:08 [AndyS]
AndyS: RIF
16:58:25 [AndyS]
pchampin: will ask team for advice
16:58:51 [pchampin]
action: pchampin to ask in W3C about how broad the charter could be
16:59:14 [pchampin]
q?
16:59:48 [fabio]
thank you!
17:01:07 [AndyS]
Next meeting: December 3rd due to US Thanksgiving.
17:01:25 [AndyS]
zakim, end meeting
17:01:25 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been ora, gkellogg, pchampin, AndyS, Doerthe
17:01:27 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
17:01:27 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/11/12-rdf-star-minutes.html Zakim
17:01:30 [Zakim]
I am happy to have been of service, AndyS; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye
17:01:35 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #rdf-star
17:01:41 [Doerthe]
bye
17:01:50 [AndyS]
rrsagent, please excuse us
17:01:50 [RRSAgent]
I see 5 open action items saved in https://www.w3.org/2021/11/12-rdf-star-actions.rdf :
17:01:50 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: AndyS to make a PR to address issue #3 [1]
17:01:50 [RRSAgent]
recorded in https://www.w3.org/2021/11/12-rdf-star-irc#T16-08-49
17:01:50 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: ora to suggest to Olaf and Bryan to amend their paper on arXiv [2]
17:01:50 [RRSAgent]
recorded in https://www.w3.org/2021/11/12-rdf-star-irc#T16-14-42
17:01:50 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: pchampin to make a PR to address issues #69 and #219 [3]
17:01:50 [RRSAgent]
recorded in https://www.w3.org/2021/11/12-rdf-star-irc#T16-15-24
17:01:50 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: pchampin to mark RDF/XML as optional in the charter [4]
17:01:50 [RRSAgent]
recorded in https://www.w3.org/2021/11/12-rdf-star-irc#T16-49-15
17:01:50 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: pchampin to ask in W3C about how broad the charter could be [5]
17:01:50 [RRSAgent]
recorded in https://www.w3.org/2021/11/12-rdf-star-irc#T16-58-51
17:02:10 [TallTed]
present+