16:03:17 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdf-star
16:03:17 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/11/12-rdf-star-irc
16:03:19 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
16:03:20 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), pchampin
16:03:22 <pchampin> meeting: RDF-star
16:03:31 <gkellogg> present+
16:03:41 <pchampin> present+
16:03:44 <AndyS> present+
16:03:46 <ora> present+
16:03:47 <pchampin> regrets: olaf
16:03:54 <Doerthe> present+
16:04:01 <pchampin> Previous meeting: https://w3c.github.io/rdf-star/Minutes/2021-10-29.html
16:04:02 <pchampin> Next meeting: https://w3c.github.io/rdf-star/Minutes/2021-11-26.html
16:04:14 <AndyS> RRSAgent, make logs public
16:04:48 <AndyS> scribe: AndyS
16:04:49 <pchampin> zakim, next agendum
16:04:49 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Announcements and newcomers -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:05:03 <pchampin> q?
16:05:15 <pchampin> zakim, close agendum
16:05:15 <Zakim> I don't understand 'close agendum', pchampin
16:05:20 <pchampin> zakim, close this item
16:05:20 <Zakim> agendum 1 closed
16:05:21 <Zakim> I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:05:21 <Zakim> 2. Open actions [from agendabot]
16:05:25 <pchampin> zakim, next agendum
16:05:25 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Open actions -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:05:33 <pchampin> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3Aaction
16:06:28 <pchampin> q?
16:06:42 <pchampin> zakim, close this item
16:06:42 <Zakim> agendum 2 closed
16:06:43 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:06:43 <Zakim> 3. Conformance section [from agendabot]
16:06:45 <pchampin> zakim, next agendum
16:06:45 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Conformance section -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:06:49 <pchampin> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star/issues/3
16:08:49 <pchampin> action: AndyS to make a PR to address issue #3
16:09:00 <fabio> fabio has joined #rdf-star
16:09:05 <pchampin> q?
16:09:14 <fabio> present +
16:09:14 <pchampin> zakim, next agendum
16:09:14 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Debunking RDF-star myths in the intro -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:09:18 <fabio> hello
16:09:32 <pchampin> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star/issues/64
16:10:59 <pchampin> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star/issues/219
16:11:12 <AndyS> <<>> are unique terms in a graph -- so not a straight replacement for LPG (or all refication usages) - <<>> are a building block.
16:12:06 <AndyS> PFPS wants earlier mention of opaquacity..
16:12:19 <AndyS> phcampin: don't want intro to be too long.
16:12:27 <pchampin> q?
16:12:36 <AndyS> ... but should have longer than we currently have.
16:12:45 <TallTed> Might it be worth encouraging authors of those now- (possibly always-) erroneous papers to add some sort of note to that effect to (or at least nearby) those papers?
16:13:09 <gkellogg> +1 to adding such material to the intro.
16:13:36 <TallTed> +1 for adding to the RDF-star intro, for sure
16:13:43 <AndyS> pchampin: can suggest to the authors.
16:13:49 <ora> q+
16:14:05 <AndyS> ... some triplestore vendor examples are also misleading.
16:14:06 <pchampin> ack ora
16:14:21 <TallTed> Yes, I'm not suggesting a wall-of-shame, but rather reaching out to the authors directly.
16:14:42 <pchampin> action: ora to suggest to Olaf and Bryan to amend their paper on arXiv
16:15:00 <pchampin> q?
16:15:24 <pchampin> action: pchampin to make a PR to address issues #69 and #219
16:15:51 <fabio> "Common misunderstandings about RDF*"
16:16:25 <fabio> It looks more material for a FAQ than a section in the document
16:16:40 <TallTed> Common misperceptions about...
16:17:19 <TallTed> *heh* as IRC hiccups and reveals fabio's "Common misunderstandings" :-)
16:17:48 <AndyS> pchampin: material is already in the report - we are trying to help readers from jumping to a wrong conclusion basd on old material
16:18:07 <fabio> Excusatio non petita accusation manifesta
16:18:08 <AndyS> fabio: may be risky to put too early
16:18:11 <gkellogg> q+
16:18:16 <fabio> accusatio
16:18:22 <fabio> I have it in Latin, sorry
16:19:08 <AndyS> gkellogg: support adding clarification text.
16:19:26 <fabio> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excusatio_non_petita,_accusatio_manifesta
16:19:54 <gkellogg> q-
16:20:05 <AndyS> ... balance to be struck regarding negatives and positives.
16:20:48 <TallTed> "Common troublesome misconceptions..." or "Common misperceptions that can lead to failure of interop" or ...
16:21:19 <TallTed> At least flagging that such exist should be in the intro.  Full details may be better placed elsewhere and linked from intro.
16:21:57 <AndyS> pchampin: will propose text
16:22:02 <pchampin> q?
16:22:59 <pchampin> q?
16:23:06 <pchampin> zakim, next agendum
16:23:06 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Publishing a final report -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:23:21 <AndyS> ... these are the only open actions needing work - rest are discussion-ish or "later"
16:23:55 <AndyS> pchampin: on the path to chartering the WG.
16:25:05 <pchampin> q?
16:25:06 <AndyS> ... publish at a dated URL
16:25:22 <AndyS> +1 to final report
16:26:28 <pchampin> PROPOSED: after the remaining PRs are merged, defer any new issue to the future WG, and publish a final report
16:26:33 <pchampin> +1
16:26:35 <TallTed> +1
16:26:37 <gkellogg> +1
16:26:39 <AndyS> +1
16:26:40 <Doerthe> +1
16:26:42 <fabio> +1
16:26:55 <ora> +1
16:26:58 <ora> sorry
16:27:01 <pchampin> RESOLVED: after the remaining PRs are merged, defer any new issue to the future WG, and publish a final report
16:27:45 <AndyS> pchampin: can still update editors draft is necessary.
16:28:20 <AndyS> ... ideally not updating the final report
16:28:20 <TallTed> CG Final Report is similar to a NOTE.  Can be updated/replaced whenever a group that has control over it wants.
16:28:56 <fabio> So this is the final meeting of this group?
16:29:53 <AndyS> ... we need to accept the PRs and vote on the final report.
16:30:03 <AndyS> ... also charter discussion
16:30:13 <pchampin> q?
16:30:30 <pchampin> zakim, next agendum
16:30:30 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- WG chartering -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:30:49 <pchampin> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg-charter/issues
16:31:16 <pchampin> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg-charter/issues/1
16:31:17 <pchampin> q?
16:32:22 <ora> q+
16:32:27 <pchampin> ack ora
16:32:27 <AndyS> pchampin: one or two WGs? touchs on RDF and SPARQL , then maybe split work streams. Closely related anyway so 2 has little advantage.
16:32:59 <AndyS> ora: multiple WG -- unless there is a clear separation, then one is better.
16:33:16 <AndyS> ... RDF , RDFS were two WG and was a bit confusing.
16:33:31 <ora> q+
16:33:57 <ora> q-
16:34:09 <AndyS> ... bigger WG can have task forces - coordination is the key.
16:34:34 <pchampin> q?
16:34:42 <AndyS> pchampin: one WG.
16:34:59 <pchampin> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg-charter/issues/2
16:35:31 <ora> q+
16:35:33 <TallTed> should note the current understanding of the group, in at least a few words, when closing these issues
16:36:06 <AndyS> pchampin: RDF/XML - mixed feelings about whether to include or not.
16:36:55 <gkellogg> RDFa can technically work on XML, not just HTML.
16:37:11 <AndyS> ... may be "any XML serialization" so TriX-star would be better approach - includes datasets.
16:37:35 <gkellogg> q+
16:37:39 <AndyS> ... addresses the "XML toolchain" even if not update RDF/XML.
16:37:40 <AndyS> q+
16:37:52 <pchampin> ack ora
16:38:15 <AndyS> ora: RDF/XML ... pass it's sell-by date. (scribe: +1)
16:38:44 <AndyS> ... happy to leave it alone
16:38:52 <TallTed> q?
16:38:58 <pchampin> ack gkellogg
16:39:50 <AndyS> gkellogg: compatibility issues if reusing existing reification hook.
16:40:15 <AndyS> ... make RDF/XML "archaic"
16:41:05 <AndyS> ... trix -- tighten up -- claim is use in stylesheet
16:41:17 <pchampin> q?
16:42:01 <pchampin> ack AndyS
16:44:33 <AndyS> pchampin: some perception that RDF-star "is" reification -- it's not.
16:48:16 <pchampin> PROPOSAL: mark the updating of RDF/XML as optional in the draft charter
16:48:18 <pchampin> +1
16:48:32 <fabio> +1
16:48:32 <gkellogg> +1
16:48:34 <AndyS> +1
16:48:35 <Doerthe> +1
16:48:40 <TallTed> +1
16:48:49 <ora> +1
16:48:59 <pchampin> RESOLVED: mark the updating of RDF/XML as optional in the draft charter
16:49:15 <pchampin> action: pchampin to mark RDF/XML as optional in the charter
16:49:22 <gkellogg> q=
16:50:27 <pchampin> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg-charter/issues/6
16:50:40 <AndyS> qkellogg: note CSV, TSV formats
16:51:03 <AndyS> ... and CSVW
16:52:57 <AndyS> ... some uptick in interest in CSVW
16:53:16 <AndyS> ... need a way to give option to update
16:53:23 <AndyS> q?
16:55:12 <AndyS> AndyS: can we enumerate the "documents in scope" so if the WG has the energy, then they can be done.
16:56:18 <AndyS> ... (R2RML, SHACL, RDFa, JSON-LD)
16:57:05 <AndyS> ... and OWL
16:58:03 <AndyS> pchampin: many possible documents
16:58:08 <AndyS> AndyS: RIF
16:58:25 <AndyS> pchampin: will ask team for advice
16:58:51 <pchampin> action: pchampin to ask in W3C about how broad the charter could be
16:59:14 <pchampin> q?
16:59:48 <fabio> thank you!
17:01:07 <AndyS> Next meeting: December 3rd due to US Thanksgiving.
17:01:25 <AndyS> zakim, end meeting
17:01:25 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been ora, gkellogg, pchampin, AndyS, Doerthe
17:01:27 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
17:01:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/11/12-rdf-star-minutes.html Zakim
17:01:30 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, AndyS; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
17:01:35 <Zakim> Zakim has left #rdf-star
17:01:41 <Doerthe> bye
17:01:50 <AndyS> rrsagent, please excuse us
17:01:50 <RRSAgent> I see 5 open action items saved in https://www.w3.org/2021/11/12-rdf-star-actions.rdf :
17:01:50 <RRSAgent> ACTION: AndyS to make a PR to address issue #3 [1]
17:01:50 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2021/11/12-rdf-star-irc#T16-08-49
17:01:50 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ora to suggest to Olaf and Bryan to amend their paper on arXiv [2]
17:01:50 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2021/11/12-rdf-star-irc#T16-14-42
17:01:50 <RRSAgent> ACTION: pchampin to make a PR to address issues #69 and #219 [3]
17:01:50 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2021/11/12-rdf-star-irc#T16-15-24
17:01:50 <RRSAgent> ACTION: pchampin to mark RDF/XML as optional in the charter [4]
17:01:50 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2021/11/12-rdf-star-irc#T16-49-15
17:01:50 <RRSAgent> ACTION: pchampin to ask in W3C about how broad the charter could be [5]
17:01:50 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2021/11/12-rdf-star-irc#T16-58-51
17:02:10 <TallTed> present+