IRC log of pbgsc on 2021-11-12
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 15:58:41 [RRSAgent]
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- logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/11/12-pbgsc-irc
- 15:58:44 [Zakim]
- RRSAgent, make logs Public
- 15:58:46 [Zakim]
- Meeting: Publishing Steering Committee
- 15:59:00 [Ralph]
- present: Daihei, George, Ivan, Ralph, Bill
- 15:59:05 [George]
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- 15:59:05 [ivan]
- present+ george, daihei, ivan, ralph
- 15:59:51 [Bill_Kasdorf]
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- 16:00:11 [shiestyle]
- present+
- 16:00:34 [tzviya]
- present+
- 16:00:46 [Bill_Kasdorf]
- present+
- 16:00:56 [dauwhe]
- present+
- 16:01:27 [avneeshsingh]
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- 16:01:51 [avneeshsingh]
- present+
- 16:02:05 [George]
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- 16:02:46 [liisamk]
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- 16:02:55 [Ralph]
- scribe+
- 16:02:57 [Ralph]
- chair: Tzviya
- 16:03:00 [liisamk]
- present+
- 16:03:18 [Ralph]
- agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publishing-sc/2021Nov/0000.html
- 16:03:32 [Ralph]
- topic: Responding to feedback about the structure of the Publishing Activity
- 16:03:52 [Ralph]
- Tzviya: short agenda; we wanted to talk about the feedback from Rick Johnson in the EPUB.next session
- 16:04:04 [Ralph]
- ... Rick has been around EPUB for a long time
- 16:04:05 [George]
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- 16:04:11 [Ralph]
- "Coming back into this from being away, we have three groups
- 16:04:11 [Ralph]
- with a lot of overlap, sometimes it’s three times as much work
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- to attend all three."
- 16:04:12 [Ralph]
- -- https://www.w3.org/2021/10/27-epub.html
- 16:04:36 [Ralph]
- Tzviya: we wanted to talk about your perspectives and what we can do to alleviate the "triple workload" feeling that we all feel
- 16:04:53 [Ralph]
- ... we're also hearing a bit of concern about the ways our groups are working, so we wanted a brainstorming session
- 16:05:06 [Ralph]
- ... do you feel this as well? does it hit home for you?
- 16:05:11 [Ralph]
- George: yes
- 16:05:18 [Ralph]
- Tzviya: I'm seeing other nods
- 16:05:30 [Ralph]
- ... some of this is because IDPF and W3C are structured differently
- 16:05:37 [Ralph]
- ... we do incubation in Community Groups
- 16:05:56 [wendyreid]
- present+
- 16:06:05 [George]
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- 16:06:32 [Ralph]
- ... historically there had been Working Groups that incubated Recommendations that then didn't get traction
- 16:06:38 [Ralph]
- ... so incubation was moved to CGs
- 16:06:54 [Ralph]
- ... I think we have some talking to do around our CG
- 16:07:12 [avneeshsingh]
- q+
- 16:07:19 [Ralph]
- ... what are your ideas about how the Business Group and Working Group are working?
- 16:07:22 [tzviya]
- ack Ralph
- 16:08:05 [George]
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- 16:08:59 [dauwhe]
- Ralph: CSSWG has a good history of incubating in the group; this is not true in epub
- 16:09:02 [dauwhe]
- scribe+ dauwhe
- 16:09:17 [wendyreid]
- q+
- 16:09:26 [dauwhe]
- ... our lack of success with first PWG is evidence
- 16:09:42 [dauwhe]
- ... so we need multiple groups, we can't brainstorm/incubate in WG
- 16:09:58 [Bill_Kasdorf]
- q+
- 16:10:02 [dauwhe]
- ... CG and WG can work as closely together as they wish
- 16:10:05 [George]
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- 16:10:15 [dauwhe]
- ... some groups are chartered to say that their ideas come from a named CG
- 16:10:38 [tzviya]
- q+ to talk about CG success
- 16:10:44 [George]
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- 16:11:52 [wendyreid]
- ... whether that helps the triple workload problem--it may not make much difference
- 16:11:52 [wendyreid]
- ... the problem of the vitality of the CG... we need to increase the pipeline between business needs and incubation
- 16:11:52 [wendyreid]
- ... the cg has tech people who like to come up with solutions to problems
- 16:11:58 [wendyreid]
- scribe+ wendyreid
- 16:12:06 [wendyreid]
- ... whether that needs more direction from your businesses... I don't know
- 16:12:21 [wendyreid]
- ... the BG concept came from a perspective that there would be different individuals who would be interested in a conversation at the business needs level
- 16:12:31 [wendyreid]
- ... rather than the technical level
- 16:12:35 [liisamk]
- q+
- 16:12:39 [tzviya]
- ack av
- 16:12:59 [Ralph]
- Avneesh: I don't think the workload is huge
- 16:13:26 [Ralph]
- ... if we combine incubation and WG then incubation comes onlly from W3C Members
- 16:13:35 [Ralph]
- ... whereas the CG gets incubation from anywhere
- 16:13:42 [Ralph]
- ... finalization happens in the WG
- 16:14:05 [George]
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- 16:14:06 [Ralph]
- ... small companies, self-publish authors, etc. can all come together in the CG to brainstorm
- 16:14:12 [Ralph]
- ... there's a logic to keeping the WG separate
- 16:14:25 [Ralph]
- ... on the CG and BG, I'm assuming W3C is not so much bothered by the BG fee
- 16:14:40 [Ralph]
- ... if that is the case then it makes sense to combine the BG and CG
- 16:14:41 [George]
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- 16:14:53 [Ralph]
- ... it's all driven by the business and technologies together
- 16:15:04 [Ralph]
- ... keeping them in separate boxes is making us disfunctional
- 16:15:04 [George]
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- 16:15:13 [Ralph]
- ... it would be better to have them together
- 16:15:13 [Bill_Kasdorf]
- q-
- 16:15:35 [tzviya]
- ack wendyreid
- 16:15:47 [tzviya]
- +1 avneeshsingh
- 16:15:52 [Ralph]
- ... W3C might evaluate whether the fee is costing us the participation of the publishing industry
- 16:16:05 [Ralph]
- Wendy: speaking as a WG chair, I agree with Rick
- 16:16:17 [Ralph]
- ... the EPUB WG is doing a lot; we have 3 active TFs and are working to get to CR
- 16:16:34 [Ralph]
- ... it's a lot of work but it makes sense; we're making progress on the things we're focusing on
- 16:16:45 [Ralph]
- ... but I'd like us to have better integration with our other groups
- 16:16:49 [dauwhe]
- q+
- 16:17:00 [Ralph]
- ... sometimes we say "it would be great to have more than one publisher in this discussion"
- 16:17:10 [Ralph]
- ... and at other times "we really need to talk with tool vendors"
- 16:17:17 [tzviya]
- present+ Zheng_Xu
- 16:17:19 [Ralph]
- ... the publishing industry is unique in many ways
- 16:17:33 [Ralph]
- ... we have a huge number of publishers and tool vendors who are quite small
- 16:17:47 [Ralph]
- ... they would need an absolutely excellent reason to pay the Membership fees
- 16:18:04 [Ralph]
- ... if we merge the CG and BGs we'd have a larger entity who would be representative of our community
- 16:18:05 [George]
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- 16:18:13 [Ralph]
- ... where the WG could go with questions
- 16:18:25 [Bill_Kasdorf]
- q+
- 16:18:27 [Ralph]
- ... and propose ideas that are ready to take to full specification
- 16:18:49 [Ralph]
- ... I'm tapped-out on meetings and haven't been able to attend as many BG meetings as I want
- 16:19:00 [Ralph]
- ... I read the minutes
- 16:19:05 [George]
- q+
- 16:19:11 [Ralph]
- ... and I see valuable discussions that need to happen
- 16:19:14 [tzviya]
- ack me
- 16:19:14 [Zakim]
- tzviya, you wanted to talk about CG success
- 16:19:18 [Ralph]
- ... but aren't the way things are divided now
- 16:19:26 [Ralph]
- Tzviya: +1 to Avneesh and Wendy
- 16:19:33 [Ralph]
- ... the CG has been struggling for lack of participation
- 16:19:50 [Ralph]
- ... there is great discussion in the BG but that isn't being channeled into the CG
- 16:20:05 [George]
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- 16:20:21 [Ralph]
- ... if there is something we particularly need to focus on for EPUB.next that needs to be filed in GitHub
- 16:20:42 [Ralph]
- ... Daihei had a good conversation in the Asian-time BG meeting; those ideas need to be filed
- 16:21:01 [Ralph]
- ... we need action items from the BG flow into the CG and ultimately escalate to the WG
- 16:21:19 [Ralph]
- ... we're at a point where we'll need to start writing a new charter for EPUB.next
- 16:21:22 [wendyreid]
- q+
- 16:21:25 [Ralph]
- ... we need to understand what we need to focus on
- 16:21:28 [tzviya]
- ack liisamk
- 16:21:32 [Ralph]
- ... we need to make this call a working call
- 16:21:44 [Ralph]
- Liisa: I have had subsequent conversation with Rick
- 16:21:57 [Ralph]
- ... I reached out to tlk with him about how he'd like to engage
- 16:22:05 [George]
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- 16:22:33 [Ralph]
- ... one suggestion he gave me is that he feels that we, as a community withing W3C, are missing a less-formal networking way to engage in business conversations
- 16:22:47 [Ralph]
- ... he noted that piracy is a big issue in the market he deals with
- 16:23:07 [Ralph]
- ... I responded that we've talked about that a few times in the BG and there's a lot of sensitiity about that topic
- 16:23:20 [Ralph]
- ... he may bring that to a future community meeting
- 16:23:53 [Ralph]
- ... there are business people who know the business issues but don't know how to take the next steps to move it forward
- 16:24:05 [George]
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- 16:24:09 [Ralph]
- ... one way is to put someone in the CG who will take the issue forward
- 16:24:24 [Ralph]
- ... e.g. in FXL, I haven't been able to find a resource myself
- 16:24:46 [George]
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- 16:24:46 [Ralph]
- ... nor have I found a way to ask the CG if there's someone else who can it forward
- 16:24:49 [tzviya]
- q?
- 16:24:54 [tzviya]
- ack dauwhe
- 16:25:08 [Ralph]
- Dave: we have tremendous resource problems
- 16:25:20 [George]
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- 16:25:31 [Ralph]
- ... I find it quite telling that the largest trade publisher in the world can't provide resources to work on a technical issue
- 16:25:44 [Ralph]
- ... but our time scales are very different from those of browsers
- 16:25:54 [George]
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- 16:26:00 [Ralph]
- ... the browser vendors have an aligment of their techical resources with the engineering schools
- 16:26:05 [Ralph]
- ... we cannot do anything like that
- 16:26:20 [Ralph]
- ... maybe the most recent feature that was added to EPUB was FXL in 2012
- 16:26:44 [Ralph]
- ... almost all of the big reading systems have a very small footprint in standards
- 16:26:57 [Ralph]
- ... also, I think we're conflating standards organizations and trade associations
- 16:27:05 [tzviya]
- q+ to talk about networking missing for all of us in pandemic
- 16:27:06 [Ralph]
- ... that's one feature of IDPF that was lost in the transition
- 16:27:20 [tzviya]
- +1 to dauwhe
- 16:27:35 [tzviya]
- ack Bill_Kasdorf
- 16:27:37 [Ralph]
- ... we have some problems that can't be solved within this organizational context
- 16:28:02 [Ralph]
- Bill: from the recruiting perspective I have a couple of things that seem obvious but turn out to not be true ...
- 16:28:17 [Ralph]
- ... I often stress to send different people to different parts of the work
- 16:28:31 [Ralph]
- ... you get the most from Membership if you send different people to the different groups
- 16:28:46 [Ralph]
- ... that seems an obvious pitch but the reality is that people still keep sending just one person
- 16:28:54 [Ralph]
- ... a small minority have sent a couple of people
- 16:29:05 [George]
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- 16:29:14 [Ralph]
- ... it's extremely useful from a recruiting pov to have the 3 groups; the cost of WG participation is a barrier
- 16:29:47 [Ralph]
- ... so the BG sounds like a logical alternative, but in fact I've not been successful in getting any org to join for a BG
- 16:30:05 [Ralph]
- ... all my my recruits are either Members or working in the CG
- 16:30:07 [tzviya]
- ack ge
- 16:30:13 [Ralph]
- ... I do not feel the BG helps my ability to recruit
- 16:30:48 [Ralph]
- George: I like Liisa's suggestion that the BG charter a TF with a narrow objective, one leader, who have their own meetings and bring something back to the BG
- 16:31:05 [George]
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- 16:31:19 [Ralph]
- ... we saw this 2.5 years ago when Vitalsource started to display a11y metadata and was displaying the raw Schema.org data
- 16:31:31 [Ralph]
- ... that led to a very successful document that was just published in September
- 16:31:45 [Ralph]
- ... I'm doing 4 presentations this week: 2 for NISO and 2 for Accessing Higher Ground
- 16:32:04 [Ralph]
- ... it would be great if the wider community knew of and could benefit from that marketing we are doing
- 16:32:23 [Ralph]
- ... but we don't communicate that within W3C; marketing gets much less exposure than it could get
- 16:32:31 [Ralph]
- ... I like the idea of the BG creating task forces
- 16:32:40 [tzviya]
- q?
- 16:32:43 [tzviya]
- ack we
- 16:32:47 [Ralph]
- Tzviya: that's how we've been trying to structure the CG and we've been having trouble getting TF leaders
- 16:32:59 [Ralph]
- Wendy: thanks, Bill, for the recruiting perspective
- 16:33:05 [George]
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- 16:33:22 [Ralph]
- ... I think Lars made an excellent point about the marketing of EPUB
- 16:33:38 [Ralph]
- ... I don't understand marketing, but I did a twitter thread about my feelings on backwards compatibility
- 16:33:59 [Ralph]
- ... I got a few responses, one of the most interesting was from someone who expressed frustration that interop is the sole problem with EPUB
- 16:34:05 [George]
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- 16:34:07 [Bill_Kasdorf]
- q+
- 16:34:11 [Ralph]
- ... why add new features if people aren't supporting the existing features
- 16:34:26 [Ralph]
- ... I've heard this before
- 16:34:47 [Ralph]
- ... people chime in that EPUB 3 isn't being supported
- 16:34:52 [Ralph]
- ... I want to know who; get names
- 16:35:04 [Ralph]
- ... we're working on smoothing out interop issues
- 16:35:28 [Ralph]
- ... we have some segments of the industry who are not part of our community and not supporting things for reasons we don't know
- 16:35:35 [Ralph]
- ... to get to them we have to find them
- 16:35:39 [Ralph]
- ... I'm not sure how we find them
- 16:36:01 [Ralph]
- .. but we need to do better marketing to get the word out that we are incredibly interested in people's problems, ideas, and new ideas
- 16:36:02 [avneeshsingh]
- I wonder if we need to think the future based on EPUB 3 only?
- 16:36:14 [Ralph]
- ... because we want to foster a better ecosystem
- 16:36:20 [Ralph]
- ... everyone is already overextended
- 16:36:57 [Ralph]
- ... we do have schools with eager students who would love to get involved in publishing
- 16:37:00 [tzviya]
- ack me
- 16:37:00 [Zakim]
- tzviya, you wanted to talk about networking missing for all of us in pandemic
- 16:37:05 [George]
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- 16:37:14 [Ralph]
- Tzviya: on networking and next steps
- 16:37:30 [Ralph]
- ... we're all feeling the lack of networking opportunities during the pandemic
- 16:37:40 [Ralph]
- ... the AB has been recognizing this
- 16:37:54 [Ralph]
- ... Dave's point about W3C being a very different organization from IDPF is valid
- 16:38:05 [Ralph]
- ... W3C would not have Digital Books 201x
- 16:38:11 [Ralph]
- ... it's not something W3C usually does
- 16:38:31 [Ralph]
- ... maybe we have more Community Days such as we had at TPAC
- 16:38:44 [Ralph]
- ... we can brainstorm on how to do that in the future
- 16:38:55 [Ralph]
- ... I'm getting the feeling that the current structure is not working well
- 16:39:05 [George]
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- 16:39:06 [Ralph]
- ... it's not that one group needs to go; it's something about the structure
- 16:39:15 [zheng_xu]
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- 16:39:22 [Daihei_]
- q+
- 16:39:31 [Ralph]
- ... most of the current BG participants are Members
- 16:39:46 [Ralph]
- ... what's our ideal structure? do we want everyone to join the CG or WG?
- 16:40:01 [Ralph]
- ... do we want to take all ideas from the BG and give them to the CG chairs?
- 16:40:01 [tzviya]
- ack Bill_Kasdorf
- 16:40:17 [zheng_xu]
- q
- 16:40:23 [tzviya]
- q+ zheng_xu
- 16:40:32 [Ralph]
- Bill: it isn't about the organizational structure, but the thing that most struck me abou the EPUB.next meeting was something Wendy said
- 16:40:44 [Ralph]
- ... the fact that EPUB is complicated, or is viewed as complicated; it has a lot of moving parts
- 16:40:53 [Ralph]
- ... the browsers have other things they want to work on
- 16:41:03 [Ralph]
- ... maybe what we should look at for EPUB.next is make it simpler
- 16:41:05 [George]
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- 16:41:11 [Ralph]
- ... make it things that browsers do already
- 16:41:20 [tzviya]
- ack dai
- 16:41:56 [Ralph]
- Daihei: from the PoV of an Evangelist recruiting Members especially in Japan, though from a global perspective,
- 16:42:03 [Ralph]
- ... global needs of digital publishing
- 16:42:38 [Ralph]
- ... Members can participate in PBG; all they need to do is sign up
- 16:42:45 [Ralph]
- ... and everybody can join the CG
- 16:43:05 [George]
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- 16:43:31 [Ralph]
- ... in Japan, Members who want to join in W3C, I've been telling people they have to think about all that is happening around web technologies
- 16:43:44 [Ralph]
- ... and the companies who have a stake in W3C to advance the world of business and web technologies
- 16:43:48 [liisamk]
- q+
- 16:44:00 [Ralph]
- ... we need to discuss more about the business aspects as well as what is next for digital publishing
- 16:44:05 [George]
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- 16:44:11 [Ralph]
- ... EPUB 3 becomes such a defacto standard world wide
- 16:44:26 [Ralph]
- ... and due to COVID, access to on-line has increased
- 16:44:46 [Ralph]
- ... it's great that we see growth in publishing business around the world, as well as in audiobooks
- 16:44:58 [Bill_Kasdorf]
- q+
- 16:45:14 [Ralph]
- ... the ecosyste needs to be maintained and new developments can be taken advantage of all around the world
- 16:45:24 [Ralph]
- ... digital media is evolving
- 16:45:39 [Ralph]
- ... business needs need to be discussed in the BG
- 16:45:59 [Ralph]
- ... @@ has not been exercised enough to talk about what's happening all around the web
- 16:46:10 [Ralph]
- ... I don't think it's a logical idea to merge the BG and CG
- 16:46:18 [tzviya]
- s/@@/incubation in the CG
- 16:46:25 [Ralph]
- ... as a co-chair, I point out that we'll have more participation from all around the world
- 16:46:43 [Ralph]
- ... not only from the technical interests but also from the publishing business side to talk about needs
- 16:46:59 [Ralph]
- ... if it's necessary, then something beyond EPUB should be discussed and incubated
- 16:47:05 [George]
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- 16:47:21 [Ralph]
- ... if the CG is not looking at going beyond EPUB maybe we need a new TF
- 16:47:39 [Ralph]
- ... e.g. to talk about the merging of visual and publishing
- 16:47:43 [George]
- George has joined #pbgsc
- 16:47:52 [Ralph]
- ... in Japan, NFT is happening by utilizing digital content
- 16:47:53 [tzviya]
- q+ to ask what issues to open for incubation in CG
- 16:47:57 [Ralph]
- ... this is happenign outside of EPUB
- 16:48:04 [Ralph]
- s/ign/ing
- 16:48:10 [Ralph]
- ... we need to expand the BG
- 16:48:39 [Ralph]
- ... in terms of incubating the next stage of digital publishing, this could be done outside of Publishing@W3C
- 16:48:49 [Ralph]
- ... in Japan people are not only interested in just maintaining EPUB
- 16:49:05 [George]
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- 16:49:17 [Ralph]
- ... e.g. Shogakukan joined as a Member and their interest is not only in EPUB but in W3C as a whole
- 16:49:37 [tzviya]
- ack zh
- 16:49:39 [Ralph]
- ... this is a characteristic of what some of the publishers are thinking, particularly in Japan
- 16:49:41 [George]
- George has joined #pbgsc
- 16:50:05 [tzviya]
- https://github.com/w3c/publishingcg/issues
- 16:50:18 [Ralph]
- Zheng: we started from having good ideas from many places
- 16:50:41 [Ralph]
- ... we start task forces, we try implelmentation, we find issues, we change the spec, we keep repeating
- 16:50:49 [Ralph]
- ... that is ideal and what I had in mind when we started
- 16:51:05 [George]
- George has joined #pbgsc
- 16:51:10 [Ralph]
- ... the reality is that in CG meetings Avneesh is active and reports status of the A11y TF work
- 16:51:20 [Ralph]
- ... but we don't hear from the other two TFs to join the CG meeting
- 16:51:27 [Ralph]
- ... I'm trying to figure out the gap there
- 16:51:44 [Ralph]
- ... with Mateus and others to see how to move on
- 16:51:56 [Ralph]
- ... I joined some BG meetings and hear some wonderful ideas there
- 16:52:13 [Ralph]
- ... I hear ideas from other groups as well and want to figure out how to make bridges
- 16:52:22 [tzviya]
- ack liisamk
- 16:52:25 [Ralph]
- ... this is something we can keep working on
- 16:53:00 [Ralph]
- Liisa: another interesting comment from the EPUB.next meeting: someone said maybe we should just lean on looking at what's happening out there in the wild and standardizing it
- 16:53:05 [George]
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- 16:53:06 [Ralph]
- ... how do people feel about that?
- 16:53:30 [Ralph]
- ... how do we do that with all of the possibilities of things that may evolve across all of publishing
- 16:54:05 [George]
- George has joined #pbgsc
- 16:54:06 [Ralph]
- ... what Rick is seeing is that the education space has evolved very quickly in the past few years and people are trying to figure out how to deploy things that work everywhere
- 16:54:11 [tzviya]
- ack Bill_Kasdorf
- 16:54:36 [Ralph]
- Bill: I'm not suggesting a replacment of EPUB; I'm thinking of both/and
- 16:54:41 [Daihei_]
- q+
- 16:54:59 [Ralph]
- ... EPUB is widely embedded in the trade book space and anything that is not backwards compatible will meet great resistance
- 16:55:05 [George]
- George has joined #pbgsc
- 16:55:43 [Ralph]
- .. maybe also work in parallel e,g, "Web Publications"
- 16:55:58 [Ralph]
- ... the biggest draw for our work is a11y
- 16:56:08 [Ralph]
- ... and maybe privacy and identifiers
- 16:56:14 [ivan]
- q+
- 16:56:17 [tzviya]
- ack me
- 16:56:17 [Zakim]
- tzviya, you wanted to ask what issues to open for incubation in CG
- 16:56:28 [Ralph]
- ... so Membership is attractive because it provides the org access to all the work
- 16:56:52 [tzviya]
- https://github.com/w3c/publishingcg/issues
- 16:56:54 [Ralph]
- Tzviya: it's clear that the CG has poorly attended meetings
- 16:57:05 [George]
- George has joined #pbgsc
- 16:57:12 [avneeshsingh]
- q+
- 16:57:13 [Ralph]
- ... let's encourage the BG and WG participants to work closely with the CG; we need to funnel ideas to the CG
- 16:57:21 [Ralph]
- ... put your wish list in the CG
- 16:57:59 [Ralph]
- ... things sitting in minutes of the BG or WG aren't going to go anywhere
- 16:58:11 [Ralph]
- ... in this SC we can talk about how to triage ideas
- 16:58:25 [Ralph]
- ... Daihei can predict things in the Japan industry
- 16:58:46 [Ralph]
- ... we all know we need to work on a better textbook model and we need to work together on that
- 16:58:54 [tzviya]
- ack Daihei_
- 16:59:05 [George]
- George has joined #pbgsc
- 16:59:14 [Ralph]
- Daihei: I propose that we have email discussion rather than GitHub
- 16:59:31 [Ralph]
- ... we ought to discuss the publishing activity and extend the discussion of what is the next stage
- 16:59:55 [Ralph]
- ... I'd like to start listing what is really being requested from Japan and why they want to be in W3C and what their requirements are
- 17:00:04 [Ralph]
- ... we can exchange thoughts by email
- 17:00:21 [Ralph]
- ... at the next SC meeting we can try to come to some consensus
- 17:00:29 [Ralph]
- Tzviya: we can include our existing SC list
- 17:00:36 [tzviya]
- ack iv
- 17:00:39 [Ralph]
- ... and if you want to loop in the other groups, add them
- 17:00:47 [Ralph]
- Ivan: one aspect of incubation we shouldn't forget:
- 17:00:53 [Ralph]
- ... we also need to incubate implementation work
- 17:01:05 [George]
- George has joined #pbgsc
- 17:01:07 [Ralph]
- ... we are concentrating on specification but we also need to incubate implemetnation
- 17:01:25 [wendyreid]
- +10000000
- 17:01:32 [Ralph]
- ... my feeling is that what we did in the Publishing WG, namely the Manifest, is that what is needed is experimental implementations not further specification
- 17:01:33 [tzviya]
- +1
- 17:01:43 [Ralph]
- ... the Publishing Manifest gives you the basis for a reading system
- 17:01:51 [liisamk]
- +1
- 17:02:00 [Ralph]
- ... get someone who knows how to handle web packaging, security, and all the hairy things on the Web
- 17:02:08 [zheng_xu]
- q+
- 17:02:10 [Ralph]
- .. incubation only on specification is not enough
- 17:02:13 [tzviya]
- ack avneeshsingh
- 17:02:19 [Ralph]
- <ralph> +1 to Ivan
- 17:02:36 [Ralph]
- Avneesh: if we want separate groups then we need strong overlap; maybe joint calls
- 17:03:05 [George]
- George has joined #pbgsc
- 17:03:10 [Ralph]
- ... if there is a feature, or if someone wants to incubate an implementation, why don't the BG people discuss something they'd like to explore further and allocate resources to the CG
- 17:03:16 [zheng_xu]
- q-
- 17:03:18 [Ralph]
- ... that would be a way for the BG to empower the CG
- 17:03:19 [tzviya]
- ack Zakim
- 17:03:40 [George]
- George has joined #pbgsc
- 17:03:51 [Ralph]
- Zheng: on the Publishing Manifest, we do have a document on EPUB converted to Manifest; we could publish that and see how people react
- 17:03:57 [Ralph]
- Tzviya: good food for thought here
- 17:04:07 [Ralph]
- ... I like Avneesh' suggest to have joint meetings
- 17:04:16 [George]
- George has joined #pbgsc
- 17:04:22 [Ralph]
- ... we can make collaboration points a standing topic for this meeting
- 17:04:30 [Ralph]
- [adjourned]
- 17:04:36 [Ralph]
- zakim, end meeting
- 17:04:36 [Zakim]
- As of this point the attendees have been Daihei, George, Ivan, Ralph, Bill, shiestyle, tzviya, Bill_Kasdorf, dauwhe, avneeshsingh, liisamk, wendyreid, Zheng_Xu
- 17:04:39 [Zakim]
- RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2
- 17:04:39 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/11/12-pbgsc-minutes.html Zakim
- 17:04:41 [Zakim]
- I am happy to have been of service, Ralph; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye
- 17:04:45 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #pbgsc
- 17:12:19 [shiestyle]
- shiestyle has joined #pbgsc
- 17:19:16 [Ralph]
- rrsagent, bye
- 17:19:16 [RRSAgent]
- I see no action items