15:08:33 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #vcwg
15:08:33 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/11/10-vcwg-irc
15:08:35 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
15:08:36 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), ivan
15:12:04 <ivan> Meeting: VC WG Telco
15:12:04 <ivan> Chair: brent
15:12:04 <ivan> Date: 2021-11-10
15:12:04 <ivan> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/f8945c84-221d-4d9d-b21c-6e91685f3c38/20211110T110000#agenda
15:12:04 <ivan> ivan has changed the topic to: Meeting Agenda 2021-11-10: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/f8945c84-221d-4d9d-b21c-6e91685f3c38/20211110T110000#agenda
15:12:04 <agendabot> clear agenda
15:12:04 <agendabot> agenda+ Verifiable Credentials Working Group ( View Calendar)
15:12:04 <agendabot> agenda+ Download this occurrence as ics
15:12:04 <agendabot> agenda+ Download all occurrences as ics
15:12:19 <ivan> agenda?
15:12:26 <ivan> agenda=
15:12:30 <ivan> agenda?
15:13:36 <ivan> agenda- 1
15:13:40 <ivan> agenda- 2
15:13:43 <ivan> agenda- 3
15:13:46 <ivan> agenda?
15:50:06 <jrossi> jrossi has joined #vcwg
15:55:50 <brent_> brent_ has joined #vcwg
15:59:14 <DavidC> DavidC has joined #vcwg
16:04:01 <manu> present+ manu
16:04:07 <manu> present+ iherman
16:04:09 <ivan> present+
16:04:15 <manu> present- iherman
16:04:23 <brent_> present+
16:04:25 <TallTed> present+
16:04:33 <ivan> zakim, who is here?
16:04:33 <Zakim> Present: manu, ivan, brent_, TallTed
16:04:35 <Zakim> On IRC I see DavidC, brent_, jrossi, RRSAgent, Zakim, ivan, TallTed, tzviya, dlehn, dmitriz, bigbluehat, dlongley, manu, agendabot, juancaballero, shigeya, stonematt, hadleybeeman,
16:04:35 <Zakim> ... cel, wayne, cel[m], rhiaro
16:04:42 <jrossi> present+
16:04:54 <DavidC_> DavidC_ has joined #vcwg
16:05:00 <DavidC_> present+
16:05:09 <DavidC_> scribe+
16:05:49 <juancaballero> present-
16:06:03 <ivan> present+ dmitriz, kevin, jrossi
16:06:50 <DavidC_> Introductions
16:07:29 <DavidC_> Kevin Dean introduced himself
16:07:46 <ivan> present+ dlongley
16:08:02 <DavidC_> Julien Rossi introduced himself
16:08:31 <brent_> Topic: VC Data Model Status
16:08:32 <ivan> present+ greg
16:08:53 <manu> VC v1.1 is out for public review: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vc-wg/2021Nov/0004.html
16:08:59 <Gregory> Gregory has joined #vcwg
16:09:01 <DavidC_> @manu said the v1.1 is out for public review
16:09:05 <manu> The published specification is here: https://www.w3.org/TR/2021/REC-vc-data-model-20211109/
16:09:33 <kdeangs1> kdeangs1 has joined #vcwg
16:09:44 <ivan> -> voting form https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/33280/vc-11-2021-corrections/
16:09:44 <DavidC_> The advisory committee of 450+ companies have been asked to review it and vote
16:10:04 <DavidC_> The vote finishes in January
16:10:30 <DavidC_> ... Pattern review is also open
16:10:39 <manu> The spec is marked up in this way to denote PROPOSED CORRECTIONS: https://www.w3.org/TR/2021/REC-vc-data-model-20211109/#c1_1
16:11:05 <DavidC_> thanks
16:11:36 <DavidC_> manu: we cannot push new editorial changes out until after January 18
16:11:47 <DavidC_> ... but we can put them into our editors draft
16:12:54 <ivan> q+
16:13:01 <brent_> ack ivan
16:13:39 <DavidC_> ivan: manu had to pay a heavy price for being the gineau pig for the new publication process
16:13:51 <manu> q+
16:13:56 <DavidC_> ... so we should give him a huge vote of thanks
16:13:59 <brent_> ack manu
16:14:34 <DavidC_> manu: some of the new processes were documented but some not
16:14:37 <brent_> q+ to say current editor's draft is not right
16:14:38 <manu> This would have been helpful before preparing the final v1.1 document: https://www.w3.org/StyleSheets/TR/2016/README#amendment
16:15:33 <DavidC_> ... some W3C staff did not know the new procedures either e.g. wrt respec
16:16:14 <brent_> +1 to manu
16:16:20 <brent_> ack brent_
16:16:20 <Zakim> brent_, you wanted to say current editor's draft is not right
16:16:23 <DavidC_> ... substantive changes now need to have special markup and we need to be careful to do this from now on.
16:16:34 <DavidC_> ... editorial changes do not have this overhead
16:17:17 <brent_> Topic: PR Review
16:17:20 <brent_> https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22v1.1+%28editorial%29%22+sort%3Aupdated-asc
16:18:03 <brent_> subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/pull/780
16:18:28 <manu> q+
16:18:37 <brent_> ack manu
16:18:52 <TallTed> no subtitle?
16:19:04 <TallTed> q+
16:19:05 <ivan> q+
16:19:20 <DavidC_> manu: I prefer we close this PR and try again later
16:19:23 <brent_> ack TallTed
16:19:42 <ivan> q-
16:19:56 <dlongley> "Expressing verifiably authored data"  is shorter
16:20:02 <DavidC_> TallTed: it has been a lot of bike shedding because it is nuanced and getting this right is difficult
16:20:19 <brent_> subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/pull/814
16:20:34 <manu> Not a strong suggestion to close it
16:20:41 <manu> I feel like we need to transform it into an issue and go from there?
16:20:42 <TallTed> "Expressing verifiably authored data" suggests that the statements within the VC are verifiably authored, not that the colloction is...
16:21:00 <TallTed> s/colloction/collection/
16:21:08 <manu> I'm fine w/ moving on as well
16:21:45 <manu> q+
16:21:54 <brent_> ack manu
16:22:20 <DavidC_> manu: Michael said he would create a separate document to address his concerns
16:22:46 <DavidC_> ... we should close this PR once this new document is created
16:22:50 <DavidC_> q+
16:23:06 <brent_> ack DavidC_
16:23:22 <manu> DavidC_: I agreed to be the 2nd author w/ Michael on his proposed document, but I have not seen a new draft, haven't heard from him in a while.
16:23:48 <manu> brent_: We don't want this to just sit either, been discussed several times in meetings w/ no progress.
16:23:51 <dlongley> q+
16:23:57 <brent_> ack dlongley
16:24:19 <DavidC_> dlongley: suggests we give this a time limit and then close it
16:24:55 <manu> q+
16:25:04 <brent_> ack manu
16:25:25 <DavidC_> TallTed: we dont want to instigate unhelpful reactions
16:26:02 <DavidC_> brent: I will ping Michael and ask him when he might be able to move this forward
16:26:18 <manu> q+
16:26:18 <brent_> subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/pull/817
16:26:24 <brent_> ack manu
16:27:25 <DavidC_> manu: I am addressing 817 by adding different options to the examples, to show the credential, JWT VC, and JSON_LD proofs
16:28:49 <DavidC_> This is brilliant Manu. Well done
16:29:19 <ivan> q+
16:29:24 <brent_> ack ivan
16:29:38 <TallTed> +1 that's just what was needed
16:29:43 <DavidC_> ivan: this is great. Please continue working on this
16:29:43 <manu> q+
16:29:52 <brent_> ack manu
16:30:50 <DavidC_> ivan: can we use the same mechanism in the did specification
16:31:03 <DavidC_> manu: yes, this is a plugin that can be used in any spec
16:31:17 <dlongley> will be a useful plugin for LDI as well
16:31:25 <dlongley> great work, awesome plugin.
16:31:41 <DavidC_> q=
16:31:45 <DavidC_> Q+
16:31:49 <brent_> ack DavidC_
16:32:07 <manu> davidc: This is great, thank you -- once this PR is done, we can close the other PR.
16:32:19 <brent_> subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/pull/828
16:33:04 <manu> DavidC_: The last time we discussed, I udnerstood -- 2 changes, remove the SHOULD believing that wasn't normative.
16:33:21 <manu> DavidC_: Last meeting we discussed that perhaps it was, we go back to MAY
16:33:40 <manu> DavidC_: TallTed said there were issues in merging, but not substantive, changes to latest version should work there.
16:33:42 <manu> q+
16:33:47 <brent_> ack manu
16:34:45 <manu> DavidC_: There is no such thing as a nonce, it's not a claim in JWT, it's a property of the VP, if you want the nonce, you'd move it down into VP claim.
16:34:48 <manu> q+
16:35:02 <brent_> ack manu
16:35:03 <manu> DavidC_: I just need Orie to agree that that's the right way to agree to nonce.
16:37:15 <brent_> q+
16:38:20 <manu> q+
16:38:21 <brent_> ack brent_
16:38:51 <dlongley> https://openid.net/specs/openid-connect-core-1_0.html#NonceNotes (https://openid.net/specs/openid-connect-core-1_0.html#ClaimsContents) <-- OIDC uses "nonce" as a JWT claim ... maybe that should be referenced for the JWT case
16:39:21 <brent_> ack manu
16:39:33 <manu> https://www.iana.org/assignments/jwt/jwt.xml <-- nonce exists here
16:39:34 <DavidC_> brent: suggested we keep the nonce, and then describe nonce more fully later for all the cases it is present
16:40:42 <DavidC_> manu: nonce is defined in OIDC as a valid claim name so we can use it
16:41:14 <DavidC_> I think we should add a sentence to described it
16:42:49 <DavidC_> The nonce is there to prevent replay attacks
16:43:24 <brent_> Topic: Issue Triage
16:43:25 <brent_> https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+-label%3Av2.0+-label%3A%22v1.1+%28editorial%29%22+sort%3Aupdated-asc
16:43:55 <DavidC_> brent: all issues are now triaged
16:44:00 <brent_> Topic: v1.1 Issues
16:44:03 <brent_> https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3A%22v1.1+%28editorial%29%22+sort%3Aupdated-asc
16:44:29 <brent_> subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/issues/209
16:45:02 <brent_> related to PR #830
16:45:10 <brent_> https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/pull/830
16:45:10 <DavidC_> brent: pr exists for this issue so it will automatically close when pr is merged
16:45:25 <brent_> subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/issues/721
16:45:59 <DavidC_> brent: this has been partially addressed already
16:46:00 <manu> q+
16:46:05 <brent_> ack manu
16:46:36 <ivan> q+
16:46:37 <DavidC_> manu: this is difficult. Make the diagrams both optimised and accessible; these are almost mutually incompatible
16:47:16 <brent_> ack ivan
16:47:20 <brent_> q+
16:47:43 <manu> q+ to note -- perhaps we optimize them, and then describe them -- let's stay away from making the SVG accessible.
16:47:58 <DavidC_> ivan: if you optimise, making them less accessible will be a problem for you
16:48:12 <DavidC_> ... you can add metadata
16:48:20 <manu> q+ to ask brent about kyle's thing.
16:48:32 <ivan> -> an example for a11y svg https://w3c.github.io/epub-specs/epub33/core/#flow
16:49:30 <brent_> ack brent_
16:49:33 <DavidC_> ... you still have to give an image description in the text
16:50:14 <brent_> ack manu
16:50:14 <Zakim> manu, you wanted to note -- perhaps we optimize them, and then describe them -- let's stay away from making the SVG accessible. and to ask brent about kyle's thing.
16:51:06 <DavidC_> manu: we should optimise the svg diagram and then write the description of the diagram. If we can do this by year end then it will remain v1.1 otherwise it will have to defer to v2
16:52:00 <DavidC_> ... can we assign this to Dave Lane from Digital Bazaar
16:52:10 <brent_> s/Lane/Lehn/
16:52:39 <brent_> subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/issues/732
16:53:19 <manu> s/Dave Lane/Dave Lehn/
16:54:28 <manu> Should be vocab file that's here -- https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/blob/main/vocab/credentials.html
16:54:33 <DavidC_> manu: the link currently goes to an empty directory. It should be the vocabulary file that is displayed
16:55:38 <DavidC_> ivan: do we want to copy the file or insert a redirect to the above url
16:56:03 <DavidC_> manu: I dont expect it to change much at all
16:57:01 <DavidC_> ivan: manu please email me the file or link and I will put it there
16:57:05 <brent_> https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/issues/732#issuecomment-937027226
16:57:53 <DavidC_> manu: I suggest we do a redirect so that we dont have to ask W3C staff to make updates should there be any
16:58:28 <brent_> we need to redirect https://www.w3.org/2018/credentials/ to point to https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/blob/main/vocab/credentials.html
16:58:44 <manu> specifically, https://w3c.github.io/vc-data-model/vocab/credentials.html
17:06:39 <ivan> https://www.w3.org/2021/a11y-discov-vocab/latest/#blabla
17:06:58 <manu> https://www.w3.org/2021/a11y-discov-vocab/latest#fullKeyboardControl
17:08:32 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:08:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/11/10-vcwg-minutes.html ivan
17:09:28 <ivan> oh, it is not enabled?
17:10:32 <ivan> it is!
17:10:34 <ivan> https://w3c.github.io/vc-data-model/ works perfectly well
17:10:44 <ivan> (or maybe you've just enabled it...)
17:10:55 <ivan> zakim, end meeting
17:10:55 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been manu, iherman, ivan, brent_, TallTed, jrossi, DavidC_, dmitriz, kevin, dlongley, greg
17:10:57 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
17:10:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/11/10-vcwg-minutes.html Zakim
17:11:00 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, ivan; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
17:11:04 <Zakim> Zakim has left #vcwg
17:11:06 <ivan> rrsagent, bye
17:11:06 <RRSAgent> I see no action items