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16:00:04 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/11/10-apa-irc
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16:00:08 <trackbot> Meeting: Accessible Platform Architectures Working Group Teleconference
16:00:08 <trackbot> Date: 10 November 2021
16:00:10 <janina> agenda?
16:00:15 <janina> Chair:  Janina
16:00:15 <janina> agenda+ Agenda Review & Announcements
16:00:15 <janina> agenda+ CfC on CAPTCHA https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa-admin/2021Nov/0000.html
16:00:18 <janina> agenda+ A11y Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review
16:00:21 <janina> agenda+ TPAC Followup https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Meetings/TPAC_2021
16:00:24 <janina> agenda+ Task Force Updates
16:00:26 <janina> agenda+ FAST Update
16:00:29 <janina> agenda+ New Charters Review https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22
16:00:32 <janina> agenda+ new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html
16:00:34 <janina> agenda+ Actions Checkin (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/open
16:00:37 <janina> agenda+ Dangling Spec Review Cleanup: https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Category:Spec_Review_Assigned
16:00:40 <janina> agenda+ Other Business
16:00:42 <janina> agenda+ be done
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16:42:18 <anevins> Are there any notes on how scribing works for first timers?
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16:59:30 <JF> agenda?
16:59:36 <JF> Present+
16:59:46 <Fredrik> present+
17:00:39 <IrfanA> present+
17:00:53 <anevins> present+
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17:02:38 <Fazio_> present+
17:02:39 <janina>  present+
17:02:46 <Fredrik> scribe: fredrik
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17:03:00 <Jonny_James> present+
17:03:07 <Fredrik> next item
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17:03:48 <Fredrik> janina: A bit of reshuffling in the agenda today - not much new, but just a new order in order for us to get to the things we need to get to. Teh Michael portion of the agenda is a bit scattered.
17:03:55 <mike_beganyi> present+
17:04:37 <Fredrik> janina: We meet again next week, but not the week following. Expectations that we will meet on the 17th and not on the 24th. Three weeks in Dec> 1st, 8th and 15th.
17:04:53 <Fredrik> zakim, next item
17:04:54 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- CfC on CAPTCHA https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa-admin/2021Nov/0000.html -- taken up [from janina]
17:05:43 <Fredrik> janina: Reminder, and a pointer, that we have a CFC about the CAPTCHA note. The mroe time-honoujred way int e W3C to resurrect what has been published as a note and reissue it as a FPWD for a Statement.
17:06:00 <Fredrik> janina: There are proposals floating aroudn helping to kill CAPTCHA, which has been one of our goals in the past.
17:06:30 <Fredrik> janina: There is also a new opportunity for a new kind  of W3C publication in our Process 2021. We can take a note, which has always only been something that a WG said, and send it to the AC for a vote.
17:06:42 <Fredrik> janina: If they agree, then, that is something the W3C says, not just what a WG says.
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17:07:04 <Fredrik> janina: The feeling in RQTF has been tha tyes, we hsould avail ourselves of this opportunity to get this elevated to a W3C Statement.
17:07:17 <Fredrik> janina: Cloudflare is proposing an approach which we should document which may change our recommendation.
17:07:53 <Fredrik> janina: The smoothest path is outlined in the CFC> publish the old note as an FPWD, assign it to RQTF for further development, give them the rihgt to publish WDs a sthey see fit, then coming back to APA to finalize the note.
17:08:13 <Fredrik> janina: And then elevate it to the W3C AC for consideration as a W3C Statement.
17:08:22 <Fredrik> janina: Thanks for all the votes on the CFC by the way.
17:08:35 <Fredrik> janina: CFC stays open until Midnight Boston Time the 17th NOv.
17:08:48 <Fredrik> janina: May get the FPWD already this year.
17:08:54 <Fredrik> MichaelC: Probably.
17:09:04 <Fredrik> zakim, next item
17:09:04 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- A11y Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review -- taken up [from janina]
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17:09:31 <Fredrik> janina: We had a long conversation with CSS who are deseprately waiting for orur signoff on scrollbars.
17:10:04 <Fredrik> janina: We had e-mail from Florian today showing his adoption of what we talked about. He had already described some a11y considerations in the text of his document. We asked him to add them as an appendix.
17:10:27 <Fredrik> janina: He has given us a draft of what he's written. If we oculd annotate this with the work he has done, we can sign off on it.
17:10:35 <janina> q?
17:10:58 <Fredrik> janina: Hearing no objections to signing off on scrollbars?
17:11:12 <Fredrik> JF: No objection, but uncomfortable. Not lseping well but living iwth it.
17:12:11 <Fredrik> janina: If we have a well-defined mechanism that users shoudl be able to override whatever the author has done, how can we argue that they shouldn't be able to?
17:13:06 <Fredrik> JF: I'm doing some work in EPUB. These readers might not support user style sheets. I don't want to go back to CSS and say that this is harmful, but their justification fo rnot having the reverse of narrow has a rather flimsy excuse.
17:13:28 <Fredrik> janina: Paul had a use case where he would have used wide not even thinking about a11y. These should be promoted on the CSS side.
17:13:55 <Fredrik> JF: I would say that looking for use cases where wide would be appropriate or where thin/narrow is abused would also be useful.
17:14:11 <Fredrik> janina: We mad eour case and it's documented.
17:14:13 <janina> q?
17:14:13 <Fazio_> q+
17:14:16 <Fredrik> JF: I ahve my concerns.
17:14:46 <anevins> q?
17:14:55 <Fredrik> Fazio_: To a certain degree this relates to Content/Usable. The scrollbar helps with knowing the length of a document. I don't know how this relates to this, but it should be mentioned.
17:15:23 <Fredrik> janina: There will be nother rev of this spec at some point.
17:15:50 <Fredrik> janina: Do we have any ability to annotate this iwht last weeks minutes and Flrian's e-mail?
17:16:26 <Fredrik> janina: Florian talks about what people should be mindful about when using that spec. That was our requestj.
17:16:57 <Fredrik> janina: I'll respond to him onj thread informing him about the annotatiosn.
17:17:24 <JF> URLs: https://drafts.csswg.org/css-scrollbars/#scrollbar-width and https://drafts.csswg.org/css-scrollbars/#accessibility-considerations
17:18:33 <Fredrik> janina: We have three other specs> EPUB, EPUB Reading Systems, EPUB Accessibility.
17:18:43 <Fredrik> janina: Those all have notmative statements.
17:19:37 <Fredrik> MichaelC: We did our own review on these.
17:19:59 <Fredrik> janina: Avneesh, Ivan and Wendy should be reminded to use the dashboard.
17:21:15 <Fredrik> janina: EPUB has had good accessibility work over the years and it's good to see that that continues.
17:21:35 <Fredrik> zakim, next item
17:21:35 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, Fredrik
17:21:40 <janina> q?
17:22:05 <Fredrik> MichaelC: CSS scrollbars also had a generic self review which I kept open. Do we want ot just close that?
17:22:20 <Fredrik> MichaelC: It's not an actual comment on a spec or anything.
17:22:33 <Fredrik> janina: We can clear that, too, I think.
17:22:59 <MichaelC> ack f
17:23:05 <Fredrik> zakim, next item
17:23:05 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- TPAC Followup https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Meetings/TPAC_2021 -- taken up [from janina]
17:23:31 <Fredrik> janina: This is an open discussino topic for anybody.
17:24:46 <Fredrik> Fredrik: The Cvent portal was not a very pleaseant experience. Should be considered for retirement... ;)
17:25:40 <Fazio_> valid points Janina
17:25:45 <Fredrik> janina: Zoom could do things to make it easier to join a teleconference. IF COGA is meeting with RQTF it is fine for us to create a new meeting ID with its own password. Why can't Zoom just conference in the usual meeting ID for COGA and RQTF? They could do that at the server end. That would be much easier on the participants.
17:25:53 <Fredrik> janina: I plan to write that up inj my followup.
17:25:54 <Fazio_> COGA will support
17:26:08 <Fazio_> accessible authentication
17:26:32 <Fredrik> janina: Just because we can have heightened security doesn't mean we should. are we really seeing abuse that we are preventing with this 2FA?
17:26:43 <Fazio_> there is a sc on that
17:27:04 <Fredrik> janina: Why so complex? When you ame a complex alphanumeric password, it just lets you in automatically when you dial in by phone.
17:27:08 <Fazio_> q+
17:27:36 <janina> q?
17:29:08 <Fredrik> Fazio_: There are WCA 2.2 success criteria about not having to redo things and also accessibile login schemas. These should also be noted.
17:29:17 <janina> q?
17:29:21 <janina> ack faz
17:29:31 <Fredrik> JF: I'm looking forward to it being in person next year.
17:29:58 <Fredrik> janina: Next year it wil be in Vancouver.
17:31:26 <Fazio_> LOL
17:32:20 <Fredrik> janina: RQTF had much success with the specifications.
17:32:23 <IrfanA> q+
17:32:55 <Fredrik> janina: Pronunciation also had success but some feedback from ARIA saying that some things don't need to be done via markup.
17:33:30 <Fredrik> janina: Personalizatio had some very profitable sessiosn. SAUR had a very useful session with people active with TimeText, MediaWork and so on. The minutes read very well.
17:34:09 <Fredrik> janina: There is a W3C workshop next week where we can share some of that work. It's related somewhat at the level of GIGO. How can you expect content to conform to sAUR if you don't have sync points?
17:34:47 <Fredrik> janina: There is the need to support texted descriptiosn of video. It's in the HTML spec. If we're talking about authoring media, then let's support low budget descriptions of video. write it up in a file, put the time offset where it belongs and let the user agent do the rest.
17:35:59 <Fredrik> janina: Our meetings with EPUB were great. Everytime in Silver when I give the examples of interlinear publications being something we don't know how to make accessible, I get roling eyes. EPUB concurs with me. I'm now writing things up on how this can be achieved.
17:36:38 <Fredrik> janina: OUr page continues to be active with links to minutes as well as video recordings. This makes it a resource for us, too.
17:36:50 <janina> ack irf
17:36:52 <Fredrik> janina: Please add all relevant links as you have time and possibility.
17:37:35 <Fredrik> IrfanA: We have a timing issue with teh next Pronuciation TF meeting and ARIA WG.
17:37:39 <Fredrik> janina: I will follow up.
17:37:49 <Fredrik> janina: Any updates for higher ground?
17:38:14 <Fredrik> IrfanA: I and Paul are presenting. We are working on a presentation at this moment. We have pretty good feedback from TPAC.
17:38:29 <Fredrik> IrfanA: It's easier for us to go forward with the one we always felt ocmofrtable with.
17:38:39 <Fredrik> IrfanA: It willb egood to provide some updates for the audience from TPAC.
17:38:50 <Fredrik> janina: Please talk about the single attribute approach as to where this is going.
17:38:55 <Fredrik> IrfanA: That's the idea.
17:39:10 <Fredrik> janina: I have no idea what James, James, Cynthia and Dominic came up with.
17:39:31 <Fredrik> IrfanA: I think they read the gap analysis. At least I hope so.
17:39:43 <Fredrik> janina: "You've got an approach? Write it up!"
17:40:27 <Fredrik> IrfanA: After our meeting, interestingly, James Craig posted something about oging forward about the impleemtnation of the single attrribute approach.
17:40:43 <Fredrik> IrfanA: Looks like he knows this stuff. We'll know more about ti when we talkto them as a group.
17:41:59 <Fredrik> janina: I'm always interested in teh outcomesl. What do we do?
17:42:09 <Fredrik> janina: Soem good progeress in RQTF, some good progress in Pronunciation.
17:42:15 <janina> q?
17:42:23 <Fredrik> janina: Thanks for all the work in the year just past and the year ahead.
17:42:25 <Fredrik> zakim, next item
17:42:25 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Task Force Updates -- taken up [from janina]
17:43:19 <Fredrik> janina: Other than what we talked about before, I would like to get CAPTCHA off early in 2022. It would be nice to be the first a11y related statement, and really nice to be teh first W3C statement in 2022.
17:43:23 <Fredrik> zakim, next item
17:43:23 <Zakim> agendum 5 was just opened, Fredrik
17:43:33 <Fredrik> zakim, close this item
17:43:33 <Zakim> agendum 5 closed
17:43:34 <Zakim> I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:43:34 <Zakim> 6. FAST Update [from janina]
17:43:58 <Fredrik> MichaelC: We are having a hard time getting ourselves together in a room.
17:44:18 <Fredrik> MichaelC: We want to fill otu a proposed strucutre.
17:44:33 <Fredrik> janina: Those minutes were interesting.
17:45:17 <Fredrik> janina: Those minutes should get on teh wiki.
17:45:31 <MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/2021/10/21-fast-minutes
17:45:35 <Fredrik> janina: Silver is feeling like they're comign to a hand-it-back-to-APA point.
17:45:57 <Fredrik> zakim, next item
17:45:57 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- FAST Update -- taken up [from janina]
17:46:25 <Fredrik> zakim, close this item
17:46:25 <Zakim> agendum 6 closed
17:46:26 <Zakim> I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:46:26 <Zakim> 7. New Charters Review https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22 [from janina]
17:46:37 <Fredrik> zakim, next item
17:46:37 <Zakim> agendum 7 -- New Charters Review https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22 -- taken up [from janina]
17:47:19 <MichaelC> https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues/290
17:47:24 <MichaelC> https://w3c.github.io/charter-timed-text/
17:47:51 <Fredrik> janina: It's existing. we have good relatiosn with them. they helped us make the SAUR breaktout the success it became.
17:48:36 <Fredrik> janina: We can sign off on that directly.
17:48:39 <Fredrik> zakim, next item
17:48:39 <Zakim> agendum 8 -- new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html -- taken up [from janina]
17:48:58 <Fredrik> MichaelC: Tehre's a couple more EPUB ones.
17:49:03 <MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/TR/2021/NOTE-epub-a11y-eaa-mapping-20211101/
17:50:06 <MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/TR/2021/NOTE-epub-a11y-tech-11-20211101/
17:50:11 <MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/TR/2021/NOTE-epub-tts-10-20211101/
17:50:48 <Fredrik> Fredrik: Takingtthe mapping noite for a little read.
17:50:56 <MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/TR/2021/NOTE-epub-ssv-11-20211104/
17:51:32 <MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/TR/2021/WD-imsc-hrm-20211109/
17:51:40 <Fredrik> Fredrik: Also doing the structural rather informally.
17:54:28 <Fredrik> janina: Defer the IMSC one until January.
17:54:47 <Fredrik> zakim, next item
17:54:47 <Zakim> agendum 9 -- Actions Checkin (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/open -- taken up [from janina]
17:55:22 <Fredrik> zakim, next item
17:55:22 <Zakim> agendum 9 was just opened, Fredrik
17:55:49 <Fredrik> rrsagent, make minutes
17:55:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/11/10-apa-minutes.html Fredrik
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