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13:45:28 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/11/05-silver-irc
13:45:30 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
13:45:31 <Zakim> Meeting: Silver Task Force & Community Group
13:45:54 <Lauriat> agenda+ Clock change reminder
13:45:58 <Lauriat> agenda+ Blameless post-mortem summary and next steps
13:45:59 <Lauriat> agenda+ Sub-group updates
13:46:02 <Lauriat> Present+
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14:00:24 <Rachael> present+
14:00:45 <SuzanneTaylor> SuzanneTaylor has joined #silver
14:03:04 <shadi> shadi has joined #silver
14:03:30 <Lauriat> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/silver/wiki/Scribe_List
14:03:52 <ToddLibby> ToddLibby has joined #silver
14:04:17 <sajkaj> present+
14:04:46 <jeanne> zakim, please pick a victim
14:04:46 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Rachael
14:04:55 <Rachael> scribe: Rachael
14:04:58 <JF> JF has joined #silver
14:05:06 <JF> Present+
14:05:10 <Wilco> Wilco has joined #silver
14:05:13 <Wilco> present+
14:05:26 <JF> agenda?
14:05:30 <Lauriat> Zakim, take up next item
14:05:30 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Clock change reminder -- taken up [from Lauriat]
14:05:33 <sajkaj> scribe: sajkaj
14:06:07 <SuzanneTaylor> A11y for Children TPAC video recording: https://watch.videodelivery.net/9d00b8b82e792fdc479d0f138c31e589 All TPAC breakout recordings: https://www.w3.org/2021/10/TPAC/breakouts.html
14:06:12 <Lauriat> Zakim, take up item 2
14:06:12 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Blameless post-mortem summary and next steps -- taken up [from Lauriat]
14:06:14 <sajkaj> shadi: Reminder--We'll be to usual offsets next week for most people as North America goes back to standard time
14:06:37 <ToddLibby> present+
14:06:46 <SuzanneTaylor> present+
14:06:46 <sajkaj> s/shadi/sl/
14:07:00 <sajkaj> sl: RReview of discussion ...
14:07:36 <Lauriat> 1. When participation lowers, it can reduce diversity of perspectives & voices, and the number of people aware of the details of the work
14:07:48 <sajkaj> sl: notes there's a mix of process goofs, and also other issues
14:07:54 <Lauriat> 2. One person, unfamiliar with the details, can enter a group and shift direction unexpectedly
14:08:18 <Lauriat> 3. A few prominent voices can end up represented above other perspectives present
14:08:36 <Lauriat> 4. Work should not have gone to a second attempt-at-consensus
14:08:49 <Lauriat> 5. The inconsistent results of those attempts shows a lack of certainty in that consensus
14:09:19 <Lauriat> 6. Surveys prompt a closer look from the larger group who haven't looked at it before; shows potential gaps in keeping the group in the loop and our overall process of review may have missing steps
14:09:52 <Lauriat> 7. Chairs mishandled results of mistake in bringing to second vote
14:10:14 <Lauriat> 8. The groups do not view themselves as a cohesive unit. AGWG’s role as the approving body causes friction with Silver, particularly when work does not move forward. Silver members see themselves as workers without a representative voice in the approval process. This results in frustration which leads to Silver members leaving.
14:11:01 <sajkaj> Lauriat: Noting again some are straight forward fixes--follow process
14:11:09 <sajkaj> Lauriat: Others not so straight forward
14:11:43 <sajkaj> Lauriat: Suggesting discussion on how to resolve; also noting the issue has been seen more than once
14:12:03 <Rachael> q+
14:12:17 <sajkaj> Lauriat: Also that our resolutions need to engage the parent AGWG, not just Silver
14:12:27 <kirkwood> present+
14:12:40 <sajkaj> Lauriat: Suggests importance of keeping discussion blameless
14:13:11 <sajkaj> Rachael: Agreeing with importance of AGWG wider involvement in resolutions
14:13:24 <Lauriat> Zakim, take up next item
14:13:24 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, Lauriat
14:13:40 <Lauriat> ack Rachael
14:13:41 <Lauriat> Zakim, take up next item
14:13:42 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Clock change reminder -- taken up [from Lauriat]
14:13:48 <Lauriat> Zakim, take up item 3
14:13:48 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Sub-group updates -- taken up [from Lauriat]
14:13:52 <Lauriat> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/silver/wiki/Main_Page#Sub_Groups
14:13:57 <Wilco> q+
14:14:05 <Lauriat> ack Wilco
14:14:22 <sajkaj> Wilco: Reliability SG temporarily halted on programmatic lang
14:14:46 <sajkaj> Wilco: working on a process doc on how to write reliable outcomes for WCAG3
14:15:00 <sajkaj> Wilco: hoping to have something here in a few weeks
14:15:07 <sajkaj> Wilco: Aim is a step by step guide
14:16:12 <JF> Q+
14:16:31 <JF> Q+ to discuss Protocols Sub Team
14:19:17 <Rachael> scribe: Rachael
14:19:34 <Rachael> sajkaj: Stepped back yesterday.
14:19:59 <Rachael> ....noting that as we dive into use cases and look at what we've presented, things like user generated have internal ways they can maybe fit into different buckets.
14:20:15 <Rachael> ...working towards a more useful taxonomy. Many third party situations to cover.
14:20:49 <Rachael> ...talked about those. User generated is coming in the next working draft. Even user generated depends. A massive video provider is different than an individual.
14:20:56 <shadi> present+
14:21:39 <Rachael> ...looser requirements for individuals than a major provider. Wrestling with coming an understanding in hopes that it can demonstrate that it is reasonable expectations vs. exemptions
14:22:04 <shadi> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/silver/wiki/Conformance_Glossary_Candidates
14:22:06 <Rachael> ...making it clearer who is functioning as publisher vs author.
14:22:23 <Rachael> ...hoping to help platforms that offer environments put requirements on users.
14:22:42 <Rachael> ...difference between conforming to technical standard vs. complying with policy/law.
14:22:46 <JF> +1 to conformance versus compliance
14:22:47 <Rachael> ...compliance vs. conformance
14:22:48 <jeanne> present+
14:23:02 <Rachael> ...we will have less to say about compliance than conformance.
14:23:42 <shadi> qq+
14:23:45 <Rachael> ...how much is enough and how much is too much. At some point conformance hands off ot compliance by the government.
14:23:48 <Lauriat> +1
14:24:01 <Rachael> ...feedback is helpful.
14:24:34 <Rachael> ...effort in wider web accessibility initiative. Referenced above by Shadi
14:25:08 <Rachael> ...wider project than AGWG and Silver. Useful to use the same terms within WAI or W3C.
14:25:21 <Rachael> ...aim for harmonization across WAI and W3C
14:25:32 <Lauriat> ack shadi
14:25:32 <Zakim> shadi, you wanted to react to Wilco
14:25:34 <sajkaj> scribe: sajkaj
14:26:17 <sajkaj> shadi: Noting intent not to change direction in what I raised, but trying to reframe some existing discussion in hope that fresh perspective might assist progress
14:27:51 <Rachael> Is this it? https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/silver/wiki/Conformance_Short_Summary_Strawdog
14:28:05 <Rachael> Janina: Gregg also sent out a conformance summary (See above)
14:28:05 <sajkaj> sajkaj: Notes new GV docjf: re protocols
14:28:07 <Lauriat> ack JF
14:28:07 <Zakim> JF, you wanted to discuss Protocols Sub Team
14:28:27 <sajkaj> jf: did convene again this morning ...
14:28:54 <sajkaj> jf: struggling to come up with a definition for "protocol" and how it might integrate into the larger effort
14:29:43 <sajkaj> jf: Key distinction agreed we will measure the measure evidence not outcomes
14:29:56 <sajkaj> jf: that seemed a useful decision today
14:30:20 <sajkaj> jf: notes many mentions of iso9001 which is a process definition
14:30:42 <sajkaj> jf: so not quite ready to present, but making progress
14:31:09 <Rachael> scribe: Rachael
14:31:18 <Rachael> Lauriat: Any other updates?
14:31:51 <Rachael> ...We may have reached the end of the list
14:31:57 <Rachael> Jeanne: Could Michael give an update on functional needs?
14:32:04 <Rachael> ...and I can give a Mobile udpate.
14:32:18 <Rachael> MichaelC: The main focus right now is taking Jake's proposal and fill in the details.
14:32:54 <Rachael> ...We have a structure but want to see how well it works. We have a working session scheduled Monday. Not sure if we will complete then but that's our next step. That will lead to gap analysis with the guidelines.
14:33:02 <Rachael> Lauriat: Sounds good.
14:34:09 <Rachael> Jeanne: I met yesterday with the mobile accessibility taskforce. They have a few members who are working to start taking the SC in WCAG 2.1 that originated from the mobile accessibilty taskforce and use the templates to migrate them to WCAG 3. Yesterday I did a detailed walkthrough of the new methods template - work done by reliability template. This work was done by the reliability subgroup to make the testing and template more
14:34:09 <Rachael> consistent/reliable.
14:34:32 <Rachael> ...they have 2 guidelines they are working on that they've gone through the process of identifying the user needs and functional needs and are starting methods.
14:35:30 <Rachael> ...Summary is that we have groups actively working and moving forward. Most are in conformance area. Most of our content groups are on hiatus while conformance is being worked out.
14:35:41 <Rachael> ...Work is continuing.
14:35:49 <Rachael> Lauriat: Anyone else here who I missed?
14:36:01 <Rachael> ...if not, 25 minutes back
14:36:17 <Rachael> ...Thank you all. Have a great weekend.
14:38:01 <sajkaj> rrsagent, make minutes
14:38:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/11/05-silver-minutes.html sajkaj
14:38:14 <sajkaj> zakim, bye
14:38:14 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been Lauriat, Rachael, sajkaj, JF, Wilco, ToddLibby, SuzanneTaylor, kirkwood, shadi, jeanne
14:38:14 <Zakim> Zakim has left #silver
14:38:23 <sajkaj> rrsagent, make minutes
14:38:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/11/05-silver-minutes.html sajkaj
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