12:21:26 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #eo
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12:21:28 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
12:21:28 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #eo
12:21:30 <trackbot> Meeting: Accessibility Education and Outreach Working Group (EOWG) Teleconference
12:21:30 <trackbot> Date: 05 November 2021
12:21:35 <Sharron> Chair: Brent
12:21:42 <Sharron> Scribe: Sharron
12:23:42 <Sharron> Regrets: Laura, Shawn, Sylvie, Mark
12:24:54 <brentb> brentb has joined #eo
12:26:13 <Sharron> present+
12:26:30 <Sharron> regrets+ Howard
12:29:44 <krisannekinney> krisannekinney has joined #eo
12:31:22 <kevin> kevin has joined #eo
12:31:24 <brentb> zakim, who is on the call
12:31:24 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is on the call', brentb
12:31:47 <dmontalvo> zakim, who is on the phone?
12:31:47 <Zakim> Present: Sharron
12:32:04 <brentb> Scribe: Sharron
12:32:09 <kevin> present+
12:32:11 <brentb> Chair: Brent
12:32:16 <estella> estella has joined #eo
12:32:18 <Jade> Jade has joined #eo
12:32:46 <brentb> present+
12:33:03 <estella> present+
12:33:12 <krisannekinney> present+
12:37:01 <Sharron> Topic: Announcement
12:37:17 <Vicki> Vicki has joined #EO
12:38:28 <Sharron> Brent: We have added a co-chair and it is Kris Anne Kinney had been invited to join as a 3rd co-chair. We will be needing more project management since Shadi has left. Know that we needed more of that kind of project mamangement Kris Anne has agreed to join.
12:39:25 <Sharron> Kris Anne: I am excited and pleased to accept, looking forward to it.
12:39:33 <Vicki> Congrats!
12:39:40 <kevin> Fantastic news!
12:41:57 <kevin> q+
12:42:23 <estella> Great news!! Congrats Kris Anne :)
12:43:16 <Vicki> Well said, Kevin
12:43:23 <kevin> ack me
12:43:36 <Sharron> Kevin: I think these chairs do a great job, and it will be great to have KrisAnne joining since there is a huge amount of work going on now and you two manage it well.
12:43:36 <estella> +1 to Kevin!
12:43:41 <Sharron> Brent: Thank you Kevin
12:43:57 <Jade> +1!
12:44:08 <Sharron> Topic: WAI Curricula Designer Modules
12:44:26 <dmontalvo> https://wai-curricula.netlify.app/curricula/designer-modules/#introduction
12:44:26 <dmontalvo> 
12:44:26 <dmontalvo> These modules have been organized to facilitate teaching designers and developers together. If you are teaching in other environments, feel free to change
12:44:26 <dmontalvo> the structure so that it fits your audience needs.
12:44:36 <Sharron> Brent: Daniel has been working with the TF and hoping to bring it for review toward the end of the month. Daniel?
12:45:14 <Sharron> Daniel: We have been looking at specifics now, honing into the details and would like to speak with the group about them before the thorough review.
12:45:53 <Sharron> Sharron: Commend you for processing these substantial comments
12:46:25 <Sharron> Daniel: Yes the group has b=provided a lot of excellent feedback and the resources is improved. First this for discussion:
12:46:38 <Sharron> Topic: Teaching Designers and Developers Together
12:46:49 <dmontalvo> https://wai-curricula.netlify.app/curricula/designer-modules/#introduction
12:46:49 <dmontalvo> 
12:46:49 <dmontalvo> These modules have been organized to facilitate teaching designers and developers together. If you are teaching in other environments, feel free to change
12:46:49 <dmontalvo> the structure so that it fits your audience needs.
12:49:05 <Sharron> Daniel: That is the lead paragraph and there is a link to the intro paragraph since this was not in the module when you reviewed it last month. It will mostly be used in a context in which designers and developers will be in the same class. So the question is do we need this or does the content explain itself?
12:49:44 <Sharron> ...does this seem useful for instructors or just confusing? There is another place where we speak about combining
12:49:51 <dmontalvo> https://www.w3.org/WAI/curricula/
12:50:21 <Sharron> s/confusing/redundant
12:50:44 <kevin> q+
12:50:45 <Sharron> Daniel: What are people's thoughts on this?
12:50:55 <brentb> ack kevin
12:51:58 <Sharron> Kevin: I think the highlight within the overview says all that needs to be said. People will use this however they wish. Unless this is addressing a specific issue that was raised but I don't think it adds anything necessary.
12:52:03 <Sharron> Sharron: +1
12:52:18 <Jade> q+
12:52:33 <brentb> ack Jade
12:52:36 <Sharron> Kevin: These are distinct module set to your credit so I sdon't think these last two sentences are required.
12:52:43 <Vicki> +1 Kevin
12:53:12 <kevin> s/sdon't/don't/
12:53:17 <Sharron> Jade: I agree they are redundant unless you want to talk about how they two sets of modules work togehter. Otherwise, not much point to this information.
12:54:11 <krisannekinney> q+
12:54:16 <estella> q+
12:54:22 <Sharron> ...it might be worth considering that once the modules are established, we can provide more guidance about combining modules based on user feedback.
12:54:56 <Sharron> Daniel: Good point, can expand based on how it used.
12:55:02 <brentb> ack kris
12:56:11 <brentb> ack estella
12:56:13 <Sharron> KrisAnne: My thought is the same as Jade, more guidance about how to use the modules together based on the composition of your student roles. Maybe on the overall intro a note about how the modules vcan be used together.
12:57:13 <Sharron> Estella: During the design of the modules, we find so much overlap that we felt the need to address. It may not be clear enough and the background may be helpful to instructors.
12:57:30 <kevin> s/vcan/can/
12:58:12 <Sharron> Daniel: I am hearing that this sentence is not useful but there may be some need to address teaching students in different roles. I am not sure we will work this out soonish, but may have a look at in the future.
12:58:32 <Sharron> ...so will remove this and look to introduce specifics in the future.
12:59:06 <Sharron> Topic: Clarifying Scope for orientation cues
12:59:15 <dmontalvo> https://wai-curricula.netlify.app/curricula/designer-modules/visual-design/#topic-orientation-cues
13:00:22 <Sharron> Daniel: We discussed this at a previous meeting. There was a request for greater explanation of the presentation of visual cues and programmatic elements like landmarks
13:00:34 <dmontalvo>  -- learning outcomes for topic, last bullet.
13:00:34 <dmontalvo> "use text cues to supplement information provided through vision only, for example available dates in a calendar marked with a background color" changed
13:00:34 <dmontalvo> to
13:00:34 <dmontalvo> "define methods to help users perceive and understand orientation cues, for example using text, color, and icons to convey the status of tasks in a project"
13:01:40 <Sharron> Daniel: We ended up including more language and it was changed to include more context and advises to define methods.
13:03:27 <Sharron> ...these are the proposed changes and would require changes to teaching Ideas the section below.
13:03:52 <kevin> q+
13:04:02 <Sharron> ...wanted to be sure I got it rgiht before making the change.
13:04:02 <Jade> I think the edited version reads much better
13:04:02 <brentb> ack kevin
13:04:18 <Jade> +1
13:04:27 <Sharron> Kevin: Yes, I think it covers that it needs to and people will be able to use the example.
13:04:30 <Vicki> +1
13:04:34 <krisannekinney> +1
13:04:35 <Sharron> s/that/what
13:04:36 <brentb> +1 to update
13:04:37 <estella> +1
13:04:50 <Sharron> Sharron: +1
13:05:25 <Sharron> Daniel: Sounds good, thanks, I will now make a pass at the Teaching Ideas
13:06:00 <Michele> Michele has joined #eo
13:06:11 <Michele> present+ Michele
13:06:17 <Sharron> Brent: Have we added a new teaching Idea?
13:07:13 <Sharron> Daniel: No, you may be thinking of our discusssion of the Form Elements Teaching Ideas
13:08:00 <dmontalvo> https://github.com/w3c/wai-curricula/issues/375
13:08:08 <Sharron> Topic: Is Target Size Flexible?
13:08:38 <dmontalvo>  -- learning outcomes for topic, last bullet.
13:08:38 <dmontalvo> "use text cues to supplement information provided through vision only, for example available dates in a calendar marked with a background color" changed
13:08:38 <dmontalvo> to
13:08:38 <dmontalvo> "define methods to help users perceive and understand orientation cues, for example using text, color, and icons to convey the status of tasks in a project"
13:08:39 <dmontalvo> https://wai-curricula.netlify.app/curricula/designer-modules/visual-design/
13:08:56 <Sharron> Daniel: This comment was made a while ago.
13:09:17 <Sharron> s/to/
13:09:27 <Sharron> s/"define methods to help users perceive and understand orientation cues, for example using text, color, and icons to convey the status of tasks in a project"/
13:10:58 <Sharron> Daniel: Even though this is a AAA requirement, it does not really point to flexibility in the actual WCAG requirement. I am a bit confused about how to present this. We need some sort of mention during the design phase and not sure what to do with this?
13:11:24 <kevin> q+
13:11:39 <Sharron> ...is there a risk in presenting this only in the interaction moddule and not in the design modules?
13:12:10 <Sharron> Brent: Are we looking at the rewording or the original wording as it was commented on?
13:13:15 <Sharron> Kevin: I think the original wording was what I commented on. The new wording works well within the context of visual design and seems to make good sense now in the new context.
13:13:16 <brentb> ack kevin
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13:14:03 <Sharron> ...I think the only other placewhere it might come in is the Form elements where we would need to discuss target size more than flexibility.
13:14:40 <CarlosD> CarlosD has joined #eo
13:14:56 <Sharron> Daneil: I am torn about forms and interaction modules and how target size and flex fits in those. When we discuss scrolling, scaling, zooming etc.
13:15:21 <Sharron> s/Daneil/Daniel
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13:16:59 <Sharron> Daniel: Thanks all, I will keep this wording here under the Visual Design Module, flexible design. I will make some specific references to target size and also references within interaction design
13:17:01 <Vicki> +1
13:17:28 <Sharron> Topic: Relationship between keyboard and other input methods
13:17:41 <dmontalvo> https://wai-curricula.netlify.app/curricula/designer-modules/interaction-design/#topic-keyboard-interactions
13:19:38 <Sharron> Daniel: This is the module on interaction design and the section on keyboard insterations. There is also Geatures and Motion. We don't have other interaction modes, for example Voice. Wanted to be clear that robust keyboard interaction support faciliatates other kinds of interactions as well.
13:19:56 <brentb> q+
13:20:00 <Jade> q+
13:20:26 <Sharron> ...so I added a section about how keyboard support is helpful for other interaction modes as well. What does the group think about how this is phrased?
13:20:31 <brentb> ack jade
13:20:58 <kevin_> kevin_ has joined #eo
13:21:17 <Sharron> Jade: You used the word "benefits" other types of interaction rather than "favors" them. Benefits is a better word imo
13:21:30 <kevin_> +1 to changing from favours to benefits
13:21:30 <Sharron> Daniel: I was not sure if benefits would be patronizing.
13:21:52 <brentb> ack me
13:23:16 <Sharron> Brent: Suggest to move the point about how keyboard support is useful for other interactions to a later place in the list. Not the first.
13:23:41 <kevin_> +1 to repositioning learning outcome slightly lower down the list
13:23:46 <Jade> +1
13:24:01 <CarlosD> +1
13:24:07 <Sharron> Daniel: I was trying to broaden the audience. My rationale was to show the larger number of users impacted. But I see you point, I will move it.
13:24:48 <Sharron> s/you/your
13:25:33 <Sharron> Daniel: I am hearing it is a useful point but should be lower in the list of point sequence.
13:26:06 <Vicki_> Vicki_ has joined #eo
13:26:11 <estella> +1
13:26:15 <Vicki_> +1
13:27:44 <krisannekinney> +1
13:27:50 <Sharron> ...thanks everyone for this input. Will go back and make these changes and adjustments needed to other sections. My intention is to have this done by the end of Novemeber and ready for thourough review. Any other comments before I get to work on this?
13:29:08 <Sharron> s/Novemeber and ready for thourough/November and ready for thorough
13:29:19 <Sharron> Topic: Work for this week/Wrap
13:31:15 <Sharron> Brent: We have a DragonFly review of the WAI Course List open until Nov 11. If you want to save, go ahead and anser a few questions and "Submit" to save what you ahve answered and you can come back and finish another time.
13:31:28 <Sharron> Carlos: Thanks to everyone in advance for their reviews.
13:34:13 <Sharron> Brent: Thanks to Carlos and Leticia for the editor interactions and the very clear maangment of input and commnets. We may/may not meet next week and will announce on Wednesday or Thursday about the meeting next week.
13:39:34 <Sharron> Michelle: Next week will be my first week scribing. I will be speaking at WebFlow hosting their NoCode conference and I will be emphasizing accessibility.
13:40:57 <Michele> Webflow No Code Conference: https://webflow.com/nocodeconf
13:40:59 <Sharron> Brent: Accessing Higher Ground is next week
13:42:21 <Michele> (Hilarious that Sharron scribed my scribe comment. LOL!)
13:45:39 <Sharron> Carlos: Next Wednesday is Shape the Future Research Symposium, register by Sunday.
13:46:03 <Sharron> ...Jade will moderate on session and estella will lead one on education.
13:46:12 <CarlosD> https://www.w3.org/WAI/about/projects/wai-coop/symposium1/
13:48:14 <CarlosD> https://www.cms-garden.org/en/events/open-web-lounge-cms-unconference-2021
13:48:24 <Sharron> Carlos: Will not join next week will be giving a talk at a german organziation on accessible CMS
13:49:56 <Sharron> Brent: OK thanks all for a good meeting, watch the W4TW and for an announcement about next meetings. Appreciate all, and welcome KrisAnne to leadership.
13:50:09 <Sharron> trackbot, end meeting
13:50:09 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
13:50:09 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Sharron, kevin, brentb, estella, krisannekinney, Michele
13:50:17 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
13:50:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/11/05-eo-minutes.html trackbot
13:50:18 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
13:50:18 <RRSAgent> I see no action items