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13:37:47 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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13:37:49 <trackbot> Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
13:37:49 <trackbot> Date: 04 November 2021
13:38:33 <LisaSeemanKest_> agenda+ TPAC highlights and followups
13:38:53 <LisaSeemanKest_> Check in with all sub-groups and action requests
13:39:11 <LisaSeemanKest_> agenda+ Check in with all sub-groups and action requests
13:39:38 <LisaSeemanKest_> agenda+ Reminder: no meeting on Thanksgiving (November 25th)
13:40:05 <LisaSeemanKest_> agenda+ new times for subgroups
13:41:23 <LisaSeemanKest_> agenda+ AG process (for WCAG)  https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/AG_process
13:47:57 <LisaSeemanKest_> agenda+  personlization module 1 with Matt https://www.w3.org/TR/personalization-semantics-content-1.0/
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14:01:33 <Roy> present+
14:01:45 <cweidner> present +
14:01:54 <EA> EA has joined #coga
14:02:00 <LisaSeemanKest_> scribe: EA
14:02:03 <Matthew_Atkinson> present+
14:02:06 <Rain> Rain has joined #coga
14:02:30 <cweidner> Present+
14:03:22 <LisaSeemanKest_> next item
14:03:50 <Fazio> present+
14:04:16 <EA> Feedback - 2 people interested in joing the task force
14:04:40 <EA> Lisa expressed thanks to all those involved in making the slides etc.
14:05:30 <kirkwood> present+
14:05:38 <julierawe> present+
14:05:48 <EA> Lisa felt that the fact that we offered ourselves as a useful resource was helpful and the workplace group are involved in diversity and they have follow ups for review
14:06:02 <julierawe> q+
14:06:22 <EA> The workforce suggested quick ref card and training - Rain to follow up with what the time frames may be
14:07:18 <EA> Mental health group to review research and feedback - if any research groups have question - could ask them to link up
14:07:19 <LisaSeemanKest_> ack j
14:08:01 <EA> Julie wanted to remind Lisa and Rain - how to work with Coga - suggested one page sheet as a summary and offered to work on the idea
14:08:15 <EA> Lisa felt we needed to find out the time frame
14:08:24 <Rain> q?
14:08:28 <Rain> q+
14:08:34 <EA> Julie suggested it was asked in general with no urgency
14:09:14 <Rain> q-
14:09:35 <EA> Lisa mentioned the slides and wondered if there is a need to make the short summary but need time to review it as to what is actually needed
14:10:03 <EA> Julie just wanted to make sure everyone was aware there was a request for the one page summary
14:10:46 <LisaSeemanKest_> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-cognitive-a11y-tf/2021Nov/0006.html
14:10:58 <EA> Lisa mentioned that we need to work with APA in a little bit of a better way - 2 specifications - natural language interface and user requirements was one
14:12:02 <EA> Lisa went on to describe what Natural Language meant - speech recognition etc and considered this was an opportunity to engage. JK wrote an issue paper on speech recognition
14:12:37 <EA> Lisa mentioned that the second APA spec was on remote meetings - needs to also be reviewed
14:12:38 <LisaSeemanKest_> q?
14:13:01 <Rain> I will be looking at them this week, as well
14:13:08 <EA> Lisa has offered to take a quick look and see if more time is needed
14:13:44 <EA> Lisa siad we have an Action item to improve communication between the two groups
14:14:15 <LisaSeemanKest_> q?
14:14:20 <EA> Rain and Lisa will deal with the internationalisation item - Silver was also good - Lisa asled if there were any other points
14:14:22 <LisaSeemanKest_> next item
14:14:49 <LisaSeemanKest_> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/Actions_Requests
14:15:46 <EA> Need to update survey status and review AG's process
14:15:49 <LisaSeemanKest_> next item
14:16:10 <LisaSeemanKest_> next item
14:16:15 <LisaSeemanKest_> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/AG_process
14:17:02 <EA> This has been added more as a reminder and items will be discussed in 2 weeks time.  They have made steps for the various stages.
14:17:22 <EA> Need to participate in the steps - mature from stable
14:17:27 <LisaSeemanKest_> The chairs will send the PR to the working group through a survey and then discuss the results in the working group meeting.
14:18:04 <LisaSeemanKest_> q?
14:18:29 <EA> If this cannot be achieved we will have problems and it will cause issues so please look at the document and provide feedback
14:18:43 <LisaSeemanKest_> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/AG_process
14:18:43 <Rain> q+
14:19:03 <kirkwood> btw: the diagram is quite good/helpful
14:19:16 <kirkwood> “Workflow diagram”
14:19:31 <LisaSeemanKest_> next item
14:19:31 <EA> Rachel will be on the call next week so can have her support on the next call
14:19:39 <LisaSeemanKest_> ack r
14:19:58 <EA> John K said the diagram was very helpful
14:20:15 <LisaSeemanKest_> next item
14:21:29 <EA> The different subgroups can be a bit overwhelming so possibly have the 2 hours after this call as a chance to discuss items - a block of time to give to coga subgroups each week
14:22:18 <EA> +1 sounds better to have them on the same day
14:22:40 <EA> Julie asked if this was changing the time to the same day - Thursdays rather than other days in the week
14:23:10 <EA> Lisa confirmed that there was a block of time for subgroups - may not be as long as 2 hours but at least have some time
14:23:48 <EA> Julie felt this might be a long time - cognitive load - a lot of time at one time
14:23:58 <cweidner> I think it makes coordination a bit easier to have a solid “working time” for the task force but doesn’t necessarily need to be after this meeting.
14:23:58 <EA> Is it really going to be 3 hours?
14:24:43 <Rain> +1 and I can do a poll for the Task Force to find the right time block
14:25:43 <kirkwood> +1
14:25:48 <EA> Lisa said you do not have to attend to all - just might make it easier than doing it on several days in the week.  Does anyone dislike the idea?
14:26:02 <LisaSeemanKest_> next item
14:26:13 <LisaSeemanKest_> close item 5
14:26:24 <Matthew_Atkinson> Here's the link to the slides, video and minutes from our TPAC week 1 breakout session, in which we presented the full set of slides: https://www.w3.org/2021/10/TPAC/breakouts.html#Oct18-01 (the hash part of the URL may change, but it's the first session on this page anyway)
14:26:56 <EA> Lisa said the follow up with Matt is to help more users with the personalisation attributes.
14:27:29 <EA> Matt joined in the conversation
14:27:48 <EA> There is a full recording of the set of slides and meeting.
14:29:02 <Fazio> Isn't that a facebook tag line?
14:31:03 <EA> Matt went through the slides in Zoom and talked about the power of the adaptations they can make automatically with the help of authors - introduced 6 ttributes in the first part of the spec.
14:31:20 <EA> correct ttributes to attributes
14:31:55 <EA> Matt went through the attributes.
14:33:10 <EA> The attributes are not yet standard so dashes are being used.
14:34:37 <LisaSeemanKest_> q?
14:37:53 <LisaSeemanKest_> q+
14:38:01 <Fazio> is this scalable, or compressible to mobile?
14:39:13 <Rachael> present+
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14:39:38 <Jennie> present+
14:40:21 <EA> Lisa asked - one to one mapping - can be more and much happens at the user end - codes and qualifiers - one through a browser extension and also adds code to a web apge
14:40:23 <Matthew_Atkinson> Here's a link to part of the latest spec, which covers these attributes: https://w3c.github.io/personalization-semantics/content/#purpose-explanation
14:40:24 <EA> web page]
14:40:30 <kirkwood> present+
14:40:48 <Rain> present+
14:41:04 <EA> Lisa added you can add different symbols - a lot of flexibility
14:41:08 <Rain> q?
14:41:10 <LisaSeemanKest_> ack d
14:41:25 <LisaSeemanKest_> ack l
14:41:56 <LisaSeemanKest_> q?
14:42:00 <EA> q+
14:43:28 <LisaSeemanKest_> q+
14:45:21 <EA> Users could upload their own symbol sets.
14:45:31 <LisaSeemanKest_> ack ea
14:49:13 <Jennie> +1 to EA, like the word read in its different meanings
14:49:27 <LisaSeemanKest_> q+
14:49:42 <Rain> EA: If you have three many to many, choose the most likely based on the context  E.g., “spring” could be the weather, a coil, or to jump
14:50:20 <Rain> Lisa: the symbols are not words, they are concepts, but there are IDs. 1263 is specific
14:50:48 <Rain> EA: correct, but the problem is that the numbers are different across different symbol sets. So we would need a universal number that the sets map their symbols to
14:51:44 <Jennie> Example: in an online text about another country
14:52:07 <Rain> EA: at the user end, they may come across a context where something is different. The user can be confounded by the amount available. So the context becomes important.
14:53:21 <Rain> Lisa: at the user agent level, can choose a symbol set as a default and how you want numbers displayed
14:53:29 <Rain> ... this will help us choose the symbol set if you don't have one
14:53:41 <Rain> ... and this will help you choose how you want it rendered
14:53:52 <Rain> ... all these things can be left to the user agent, not the specification
14:54:34 <Rain> EA: think we need to look at it really in depth, because there are some issues there even around the user choice. Needs to be carefully debated. Very aware that situations when working on web pages and looking at them, how you choice the symbols has implifications especially around simplification.
14:55:11 <Rain> EA: simplification alongside the symbols, very intertwined. Must happen together.
14:55:29 <EA> Thank you rain
14:55:30 <Rain> ... text even at a 12 year old level is still very difficult for making very good selections
14:55:31 <EA> Raine
14:55:37 <EA> sorry spelling!!
14:56:00 <EA> Matt will share developments in the future
14:56:23 <EA> Matt confirmed user needs will be paramount
14:56:41 <LisaSeemanKest_> Q?
14:56:53 <LisaSeemanKest_> ack l
14:56:54 <EA> Matt wants ot get it right and felt it was very near to being complete
14:57:12 <EA> Working with Steve Lee to provide examples
14:57:58 <EA> Lisa suggested the need to have advice - .svgs, contrast, no clutter, etc best practice for user agent, symbol set and author
14:58:25 <EA> Lisa - next step - taking 4 items... Matt?
14:59:02 <EA> Matt felt that he could not speak for personalisation but felt review of this part of the spec would help - technical review - feedback would help
14:59:34 <EA> Other modules - general issues around user needs - metadata to help
15:00:40 <EA> Lisa  - Collect more questions - would this help Matt was asked - just the 4 concepts - email thread to Personalisation
15:01:32 <Jennie> +1 and to set up on multiple computers (home, work, mobile...)
15:02:23 <Jennie> q+
15:02:28 <EA> matt mentioned - a proxy server as an option
15:03:13 <EA> matt - spectrum of users - a lot of possibilities - wondering if we have a small group together to meet up with personalisation group
15:04:03 <kirkwood> Wouldn’t it make sense to bring it to our group meeting?
15:04:24 <EA> Matt said need real examples first - then Lisa suggested we review - follow on meetings - Jennie will send email with remote users and firewalls
15:04:59 <EA> Lisa asking if we need to set up a google doc or wait for examples.
15:05:56 <EA> Lisa - do we need more code examples and/or more demos?
15:05:58 <Jennie> I would need time to think about that
15:06:32 <Jennie> q+
15:07:31 <EA> Matt just working on a procedural idea as a recipe - Steve Lee working on it.
15:07:51 <julierawe> Have to leave for another meeting, thank you, Matt!
15:08:32 <EA> Jennie as if there was anyone from the Microsoft team on the subject
15:10:42 <Jennie> ack Jennie
15:11:15 <EA> Thank you Matt
15:11:47 <EA> Lisa said if there are anymore comments - add to list
15:13:30 <LisaSeemanKest_> rrsagent, make minutes
15:13:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/11/04-coga-minutes.html LisaSeemanKest_
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