13:58:00 RRSAgent has joined #wot-td 13:58:00 logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/11/03-wot-td-irc 13:58:12 meeting: WoT-WG - TD-TF 13:58:22 present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Ege_Korkan 14:03:06 Fady has joined #wot-td 14:04:25 @kaz there is only you and me? 14:04:37 dape has joined #wot-td 14:04:57 s/@kaz there is only you and me?// 14:05:17 present+ Daniel_Peintner, Fady_Salama, Sebastian_Kaebisch 14:06:39 present+ Michael_McCool, Michael_Koster 14:06:46 McCool has joined #wot-td 14:06:48 mjk has joined #wot-td 14:06:55 zakim, who is on the call? 14:06:55 Present: Kaz_Ashimura, Ege_Korkan, Daniel_Peintner, Fady_Salama, Sebastian_Kaebisch, Michael_McCool, Michael_Koster 14:07:14 present+ Cristiano_Aguzzi 14:07:25 Topic: Minutes Review 14:07:49 -> https://www.w3.org/2021/10/20-wot-td-minutes.html Oct-20 14:11:08 sk: (goes through the minutes) 14:12:04 sk: SSML recomendation 1.1 do they say backwards compatible? 14:12:39 q+ 14:13:06 q- 14:13:33 sk: XML also uses the old namespace (between 1.0 and 1.1) 14:14:04 sk: any objections? 14:14:50 Topic: F2F Minutes Review 14:15:08 -> https://www.w3.org/2021/10/28-wot-minutes.html Oct-28 14:15:30 s/html/html#t08/ 14:15:37 rrsagent, make log public 14:15:45 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:15:45 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/11/03-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 14:15:53 cris has joined #wot-td 14:16:18 sk: manu sporny recommended to go with a new namespace 14:16:21 q+ 14:18:01 q? 14:18:04 q+ 14:18:59 ca: we are constraining the validation to validate the string in the context 14:19:20 q+ to suggest we discuss the detail AFTER the minutes review 14:20:09 q+ to Manu Sporny warned us to re-use the same context for various reasons 14:20:24 ca: context points to terms you can use. if 1.1 context just extends 1.0 it is ok? 14:20:28 present+ Toomaki_Mizushima 14:20:36 s/Toomaki/Tomoaki/ 14:20:39 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:20:39 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/11/03-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 14:20:51 ca: is it ok to check for the exact url? 14:21:35 i/goes through/scribenick: Ege/ 14:21:37 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:21:37 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/11/03-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 14:21:46 sk: you are right, from json-ld perspective it is fine 14:22:01 ... but a json processor would have problems 14:22:02 q? 14:22:08 ack cris 14:22:30 ack ege 14:23:01 q? 14:23:09 q+ 14:23:33 ack k 14:23:33 kaz, you wanted to suggest we discuss the detail AFTER the minutes review 14:24:28 q- 14:24:35 ack cris 14:24:59 sk: any objections to make the minutes public? 14:26:12 (none; approved) 14:26:17 topic: TD Versioning 14:26:30 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:26:30 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/11/03-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 14:26:47 sk: maybe we can add information on how to convert 1.1 to 1.0 14:27:02 q+ 14:27:08 q+ 14:27:28 i|maybe|-> https://w3c.github.io/wot-thing-description/#abstract TD spec Abstract section| 14:30:02 ack e 14:31:39 ege: we can say 1.1 can process 1.0 14:31:49 mm: that would be forward compatibility 14:32:36 ack c 14:32:39 ca: we should do this carefully and stick to it in the next versions as well 14:32:44 q+ 14:33:32 chair: Sebastian 14:36:12 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:36:12 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/11/03-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 14:39:24 ek: we can define that validation is not mandatory 14:39:30 ca: is it not mandatory? 14:39:54 ek: it is not I think. So we can say that the backwards compatible does not mean validating new documents 14:41:03 q+ 14:41:31 ack e 14:41:34 q+ 14:41:52 sk: we can say that for the new features, you have to update your software 14:42:24 -> https://www.w3.org/TR/json-ld11/#json-ld-1-1-processing-mode JSON-LD 1.1 14:42:45 ek: but in conventional software, you don't have to update the code that uses a library if that library gets a minor version update 14:42:48 -> https://www.w3.org/TR/json-ld11-api/ JSON-LD 1.1 Processing Algorithms and API 14:42:59 kaz: json-ld also had problems with versioning so we can look there 14:43:48 q? 14:44:15 ack k 14:44:44 kaz: we dont have to define such an algorithm 14:44:52 sk: michael koster, how does sdf handle this? 14:45:25 s/look there/look at their specs. We should think about what want to do for "compatibility" between TD 1.0 and TD 1.1 first, and then think about what kind of versioning mechanism is required for that purpose./ 14:46:03 s/we dont have to define such an algorithm/I'm not suggesting we also generate a separate spec for TD 1.1 processing, though./ 14:46:48 mk: for new features, you need to update the document and the processor 14:46:56 q+ 14:47:06 mk: if you realized them, you can ignore them. called softbreaking 14:48:46 ack c 14:49:44 ca: I think we are getting somewhere 14:49:51 (sorry, I have to go...) 14:51:30 ca: we do not change, e.g. title from string to object 14:52:18 ack d 14:52:25 sk: adding profile keyword would mean that there is another behavior but that is not breaking 14:53:44 dp: we should be jsonld 1.1 compliant (I am not sure if I understood) 14:53:58 +1 14:54:01 q? 14:56:52 q+ 14:57:08 ege: maybe we can say that we add new terms, do not change the structure of the old terms but add new values. This means that if a TD parser was iterating through a key's values, it will not fail but it will meet new values. 14:57:44 ... so for example, op will be an array and can be iterated through like an array but will have new values like `subscribeallevents` 14:57:54 ... maybe @context needs some special note 15:01:49 sk: any objections? 15:03:37 kaz: we should change the namespace maybe 15:04:54 kaz: don't object to the summary but as already mentioned during the DID joint call on Oct-28, maybe https://www.w3.org/2022/wot/td/v11 might make sense. also would suggest we quickly ask the JSON-LD 1.1 Editors for advice again. 15:05:02 i/don't/scribenick: kaz/ 15:05:07 scribenick: Ege 15:07:44 action: kaz to ask the JSON-LD guys for advice again 15:07:45 Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel. 15:07:56 q? 15:08:01 ack k 15:09:39 topic: TD Roadmap 15:10:06 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot/pull/1000 wot PR 1000 15:10:53 sk: (goes through the plan) 15:11:33 [[ 15:11:34 0. Clarify which normative features in the TD 1.1, Architecture and Profile should be covered by mid-Nov 15:11:34 1. Roll back TD spec to 1.1 (1.0 compatible) features by Nov 30 15:11:34 2. Normative features freeze TD 1.1 & Architecture spec by Dec 15 15:11:34 3. Get wide review including TAG, Accessibilty, Privacy, Security, and Internationalization to review TD 1.1 draft 15:11:35 4. Normative features freeze Discovery spec by Dec 15 15:11:37 5. Feature freeze Profile spec by Jan 31 15:11:39 6. Testfest in mid-Feb 15:11:41 7. CR transition in mid-March 15:11:43 8. PR transition in mid-April 15:11:45 9. REC transition before end of extended charter end of July 15:11:47 ]] 15:11:49 sk: any comments? 15:12:16 ... need to defer some of the features for TD 2.0 15:12:36 ... normative features for TD 1.1 to be frozen by Dec 15 15:12:48 i/goes/scribenick: kaz/ 15:14:28 topic: PRs 15:14:32 subtopic: PR 1205 15:14:41 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1205 WIP: Fix issues in TM schema generation script #1205 15:16:54 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:16:54 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/11/03-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 15:19:22 sk: (goes through the changes) 15:21:46 ... would recommend we merge this PR 15:24:06 kaz: one problem due to Ege's review 15:24:10 ek: reverted 15:24:18 sk: and merged the PR 1205 15:25:17 topic: PR 1207 15:25:17 https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1207 15:25:27 s/https/-> https/ 15:25:48 s/1207/1207 Updates for TM Chapter #1207 15:26:03 s/topic: PR 1207/subtopic: PR 1207/ 15:29:09 sk: moved the content to the Architecture spec 15:29:54 -> https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/1207/4e1496e...83454ce.html#thing-model Preview of "10. Thing Model" 15:31:24 q+ 15:32:36 ek: regular expression based on ECMAScript 15:34:54 kaz: do we have sufficient implementations for TM features in general? 15:35:53 sk: we already have multiple implementations 15:36:17 q? 15:36:19 kaz: in that case, we need to update the test results 15:36:19 ack k 15:36:24 ek: right 15:40:41 -> https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1207.html#thing-model-td-generation preview of "10.4 Derivation to Thing Description Instances" 15:41:02 q+ 15:41:45 sk: two options for TD generation 15:42:48 ... single derivation or multiple derivation 15:44:21 ek: we can merge this PR 1207 and add fixes later 15:44:33 kaz: note that there is a typo 15:44:55 ... "Please not that ..." should be "Please note that ..." 15:45:06 sk: have issue with direct change within the PR 15:45:22 ... because we need to regenerate the index.html based on the index.template.html 15:47:02 ... let's fix the typo as well later 15:47:06 ... (merges PR 1207) 15:47:28 subtopic: PR 1250 15:48:37 i|PR 1250|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1265 Issue 1265 to fix the remaining issues| 15:49:52 s/1250/1254/ 15:50:07 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1254 fixes #1247 #1254| 15:50:41 sk: fixed Issue 1247 15:50:49 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1247 Allowing type to be an array #1247 15:55:19 q+ dape 15:55:22 ack d 15:55:23 ack k 15:55:31 q? 15:56:55 ek: should update the text for PR 1254 15:59:29 sk: (records a comment we should not merge this for TD 1.1) 15:59:47 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1254#issuecomment-959550764 Sebastian's comment 15:59:53 subtopic: PR 1257 16:00:22 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1257 Add op values description table #1257 16:04:16 sk: (merged) 16:04:23 [adjourned] 16:04:30 rrsagent, draft minutes 16:04:30 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/11/03-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 16:04:33 sebastiankaebisch has joined #wot-td 18:10:02 Zakim has left #wot-td