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16:47:21 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/10/29-m4h-irc
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16:49:49 <PeterRushforth> zakim, this is the tpac 2021 maps for html community group meeting
16:49:49 <Zakim> got it, PeterRushforth
16:49:59 <PeterRushforth> present+
16:51:35 <PeterRushforth> q?
16:55:02 <PeterRushforth> Meeting: TPAC 2021 Maps for HTML community group
16:55:15 <PeterRushforth> Chair: Peter Rushforth
16:55:33 <PeterRushforth> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/community/maps4html/wiki/TPAC_2021_Agenda
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17:01:41 <PeterRushforth> The zoom link is live on the W3C site now: https://web-eur.cvent.com/hub/events/2b77fe3d-2536-467d-b71b-969b2e6419b5/sessions
17:02:19 <PeterRushforth> I appear to be alone in the zoom channel, is anyone else there?
17:02:40 <ben> It says "please wait for the host to start this meeting" for me
17:02:52 <Aliyan> same
17:03:19 <bkardell_> bkardell_ has joined #m4h
17:03:29 <bkardell_> hello! is there a meeting?
17:06:40 <PeterRushforth> yes! sorry technical glitch
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17:10:28 <Boaz> present+
17:10:29 <zcorpan> present+
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17:11:09 <weiler> present+
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17:13:34 <satakagi> present+
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17:14:07 <Jaunita_george> present +
17:15:10 <bkardell_> present+
17:23:58 <bkardell_> q+
17:31:36 <bkardell_> scribenick: bkardell_
17:32:05 <bkardell_> I think we're circling around features, we'll be in a better position to write a charter and become a wg
17:32:24 <Boaz> q+
17:32:59 <zcorpan> q+
17:33:20 <Boaz> q-
17:33:22 <Boaz> q+
17:33:48 <PeterRushforth> bkardell_: big set of problems; things that boost platform for everybody is a practical way to progress
17:34:12 <PeterRushforth> bkardell_: offscreen canvas etc are things that the browser is more likely to actually do, are big wins
17:34:49 <PeterRushforth> bkardell_: can go in other direction, propose higher level thing that does not expose low level things
17:35:06 <zcorpan> q?
17:35:08 <Boaz> q?
17:35:15 <bkardell_> ack bkardell_
17:36:00 <PeterRushforth> q?
17:36:02 <Karen> Karen has joined #m4h
17:36:10 <Karen> present+
17:37:52 <bkardell_> zcorpan: I think I largey agree with bkardell_'s point about primitives. If you find yourself in javascript libraries and fighting the platform rather than working with it, we should fix that - and it's useful to lots of people
17:38:16 <bkardell_> zcorpan: and I do think it is very worth experimenting with the high level vision that is doable in custom element form
17:38:23 <bkardell_> ack Zakim
17:38:26 <bkardell_> ack zcorpan
17:38:37 <zcorpan> q?
17:43:01 <satakagi> It would be interesting to consider focusing only on the definition of the map element and layer element. And it might be worthwhile to make it possible to handle those tags in common with various existing javascript map display libraries.
17:43:15 <bkardell_> Boaz: https://github.com/WebKit/explainers/tree/main/model
17:43:30 <bkardell_> s/Boaz/bkardell_
17:44:18 <bkardell_> if we lift up a higher level version of the custom element like this, that lowers the high level bar as well as a first step... it's worth looking at and seeing the rationale behind why apple didthis
17:44:51 <Boaz> q?
17:49:23 <PeterRushforth> ack boaz
17:52:32 <bkardell_> Boaz: This seems like the more webby architecture to me in some ways...
17:52:52 <PeterRushforth> https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/6380#issuecomment-872405399
17:53:01 <bkardell_> zcorpan: One benefit of the mapml thing is that you could embed it right in the document iself
17:53:29 <PeterRushforth> zcorpan: presented mapml work to html stds folks for feedback
17:53:55 <bkardell_> bkardell_: the model explainer thing states that they might also be interested in that,its about how you get there and they believe (for I think good reasons) that it is more practical to not boil the oceans that that would require all at once
17:53:59 <PeterRushforth> zcorpan: hard time evaluating use cases, because there are so many.  Many are technically possible to solve with today's platform
17:54:44 <PeterRushforth> zcorpan: want how the current web plat is not sufficient, have feedback from javascript web map developers about insufficient
17:55:01 <PeterRushforth> q+
17:55:26 <PeterRushforth> zcorpan: thing to be implemented on its own, or useful in other contexts
17:56:15 <bkardell_> PeterRushforth: a couple of points... I believe that the openui process is doing really great..
17:56:44 <bkardell_> PeterRushforth: I think the maps4html was doing really well in the same regard, the mapml vocabulary itself came from that research
17:57:08 <bkardell_> PeterRushforth: with the objective since the workshop focusing on a11y... how to make accessible maps
17:57:46 <bkardell_> PeterRushforth: I believe this is kind of a stress of HTML, to make things accessible by default.  I don't think it is off the table that openui wants to influence browser standards, including HTML
17:58:16 <bkardell_> PeterRushforth: that's sort of our same approach, to distill the best and most accessible things in a form that is polyfillable and critiquable
17:58:55 <bkardell_> PeterRushforth: the other thing relative to that is that maps are a shared thing...they are useful for not just pictures of space, including pictures of things and objects which don't have to be geolocated
17:59:10 <bkardell_> PeterRushforth: so I think it's natural that web maps should be useable by other communities beyond our own
18:00:08 <bkardell_> PeterRushforth: just goingback to the model viewer proposed by apple... reality is based on coordinate systems - a 2d web map is an augmented reality.  When you say show my geolocation on a map, you are living in augmented reality with a GPS and a map
18:00:24 <Boaz> it would be cool to get <model> to take the same sources as web maps
18:00:39 <bkardell_> PeterRushforth: the value in augmenting this reality lies in being able - for anyone - regarless of disability to do this
18:01:09 <bkardell_> PeterRushforth: it seems like it would be good to bring those two communities together maybe. We could call it model for all I care.
18:02:41 <bkardell_> bkardell_: the current explainer very specifically doesn't include 2d, on purpose
18:03:03 <bkardell_> bkardell_: but I do think there is a very clear relationship here and it is worth cross-engaging these communities
18:03:08 <bkardell_> Boaz: I agree
18:03:23 <bkardell_> zcorpan: Also worth nothing that not all maps are 2d
18:03:31 <bkardell_> PeterRushforth: true
18:04:08 <PeterRushforth> you have been wonderful thank you brian
18:05:21 <satakagi> https://satakagi.github.io/mapsForWebWS2020-docs/update202110.html
18:06:21 <PeterRushforth> htank you
18:06:32 <PeterRushforth> please read and respond
18:10:25 <PeterRushforth> rrsagent, please create the minutes
18:10:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/29-m4h-minutes.html PeterRushforth
18:12:48 <PeterRushforth> rrsagent, please publish the minutes
18:12:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/29-m4h-minutes.html PeterRushforth
18:30:37 <PeterRushforth> PeterRushforth has left #m4h
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18:31:10 <PeterRushforth_> zakim, please leave
18:31:10 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been PeterRushforth, Boaz, zcorpan, weiler, satakagi, bkardell_, Karen
18:31:10 <Zakim> Zakim has left #m4h
18:31:23 <PeterRushforth_> rrsagent, please leave
18:31:39 <PeterRushforth_> rrsagent, make access public
18:31:39 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make access public', PeterRushforth_.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
18:31:57 <zcorpan> RRSAgent: make minutes public
18:31:57 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', zcorpan.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
18:32:40 <zcorpan> RRSAgent, make logs world-visible
18:32:49 <PeterRushforth_> rrsagent, please make logs world-visible
18:32:56 <zcorpan> RRSAgent, bye
18:32:56 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
18:32:57 <PeterRushforth_> lol