13:34:35 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #i18n
13:34:35 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/10/26-i18n-irc
13:34:38 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #i18n
13:35:09 <addison> Meeting: Internationalization WG TPAC 2021
13:35:15 <addison> Chair: Addison Phillips
13:35:30 <addison> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/wiki/I18N_2021_TPAC
13:35:30 <agendabot> clear agenda
13:35:30 <agendabot> agenda+ 1.1.1 26 October 2020
13:35:30 <agendabot> agenda+ 1.1.2 28 October 2020
13:35:30 <agendabot> agenda+ 1.2 Other Group Meetings
13:35:30 <agendabot> agenda+ 1.2.1 Agenda Backlog
13:35:32 <agendabot> agenda+ 1.3 How to Join Our Call
13:35:35 <agendabot> agenda+ CSS Wednesday, 27 October 2021 @ 1700 UTC (set)
13:35:37 <agendabot> agenda+ Web Payments Monday-Thursday, 25-28 October 2021 @ 1400-1600 UTC (proposed 26th@1500) - Their agenda includes us between 15:00-15:30 UTC on 26 Oct.
13:35:41 <agendabot> agenda+ Log in
13:35:43 <agendabot> agenda+ Page
13:35:45 <agendabot> agenda+ Discussion
13:35:47 <agendabot> agenda+ Read
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13:35:52 <agendabot> agenda+ View history
13:35:54 <agendabot> agenda+ Main Page
13:35:56 <agendabot> agenda+ Browse categories
13:35:59 <agendabot> agenda+ Recent changes
13:36:01 <agendabot> agenda+ What links here
13:36:03 <agendabot> agenda+ Related changes
13:36:06 <agendabot> agenda+ Special pages
13:36:08 <agendabot> agenda+ Printable version
13:36:10 <agendabot> agenda+ Permanent link
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13:36:15 <agendabot> agenda+ This page was last modified on 21 October 2021, at 14:33.
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13:36:35 <addison> agenda clear
13:36:42 <addison> clear agenda
13:36:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/26-i18n-minutes.html addison
13:38:20 <r12a> agenda?
13:42:03 <addison> agenda+ Agenda
13:42:17 <addison> agenda+ Prep for upcoming sessions
13:45:05 <addison> agenda+ Web Payments (@1500 UTC)
13:45:40 <addison> agenda+ IFT Review
13:46:42 <addison> agenda+ EPUB Review
13:54:46 <xfq> xfq has joined #i18n
13:56:23 <Najib> Najib has joined #i18n
13:59:52 <addison> present+ Addison, Richard, Fuqiao, Atsushi, Najib, Makoto
14:02:07 <addison> present+ Cassondra
14:02:14 <MURATA_> MURATA_ has joined #i18n
14:02:20 <MURATA_> present+
14:03:37 <addison> agenda?
14:03:47 <xfq> scribe: xfq
14:04:18 <xfq> addison: we don't have a super deep agenda for today
14:04:27 <xfq> ... meeting with Web Payments
14:04:37 <xfq> ... i have a couple of agenda+
14:04:45 <xfq> ... IFT, EPUB
14:04:54 <xfq> ... we could do today or Thursday
14:05:07 <xfq> r12a: let's do today
14:05:08 <addison> agenda+ CSS discussion
14:05:21 <xfq> ...  i think we need to also talk about what we want to talk about with css tomorrow
14:05:30 <xfq> addison: SPC
14:05:31 <addison> agenda+ SPC review
14:05:53 <xfq> addison: they want to resolve the FO
14:06:17 <xfq> ... I think they think they have a resolution at hand
14:06:17 <addison> agenda?
14:06:39 <addison> Topic: Action Items
14:06:47 <addison> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open
14:07:24 <castastrophe> castastrophe has joined #i18n
14:07:35 <xfq> addison: 1017 is getting stale
14:08:39 <xfq> addison: did 1034, need some time to review that
14:09:03 <xfq> ... did 1063 a while ago
14:09:48 <xfq> r12a: did 1066
14:09:56 <xfq> ... renamed the label
14:10:02 <xfq> ... to match the document name
14:10:30 <r12a> https://w3c.github.io/i18n-activity/reviews/#pronunciation-gap-analysis-and-use-cases
14:10:59 <xfq> atsushi: did 1073
14:11:30 <xfq> addison: think we did 1078
14:12:26 <xfq> ... did 1084 last Friday
14:12:57 <xfq> ... effectively the outcome is that we're going to prepare an I-D
14:13:23 <xfq> ... the three of us each have pieces in there
14:13:32 <xfq> ... URL references to language tags
14:13:39 <xfq> ... which can be used in semantic web
14:14:18 <xfq> r12a: did 1087
14:14:22 <xfq> r12a: did 1088
14:14:27 <xfq> r12a: did 1089
14:15:34 <Najib> I can hear you
14:15:52 <Najib> no matter live transcript
14:16:17 <xfq> [Discuss Live Transcript issue]
14:17:35 <xfq> On Saving Automated Meeting Transcripts -> https://www.w3.org/Guide/meetings/transcripts.html
14:18:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/26-i18n-minutes.html addison
14:18:06 <r12a> https://web-eur.cvent.com/hub/events/2b77fe3d-2536-467d-b71b-969b2e6419b5/sessions
14:18:19 <xfq> present+ Myles
14:18:49 <addison> Topic: Info Share
14:19:10 <addison> Topic: Review Radar
14:19:17 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1
14:20:07 <xfq> addison: no new requests
14:21:12 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/issues/88
14:21:14 <xfq> r12a: "JSON LD WG self review" is with a "close?" label
14:21:54 <xfq> ... let's close it
14:22:41 <xfq> r12a: https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/issues/25 should be moved over
14:23:00 <xfq> addison: done
14:23:45 <xfq> addison: we're going to meet with coga folks on Thursday
14:23:51 <xfq> ... we can look at coga issues
14:24:29 <xfq> ... could add it to the agenda
14:24:31 <addison> agenda+ Review COGA items
14:24:34 <addison> agenda?
14:25:02 <xfq> ... move it to Completed on Thursday if we can
14:26:05 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 5
14:26:05 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- EPUB Review -- taken up [from addison]
14:26:16 <r12a> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3As%3Aepub+label%3Aneeds-resolution
14:27:06 <xfq> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1382
14:28:33 <xfq> r12a: +1 to close 1382
14:28:52 <addison> scribenick: addison
14:28:57 <xfq> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1381
14:29:27 <addison> xfq: added a reference to charmod-norm to say that filenames must be unicode canonical norm and full case folding
14:29:46 <addison> richard: agree it should be closed
14:29:49 <addison> addison: +1
14:29:57 <xfq> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1380
14:30:14 <addison> xfq: saw two new comments today, one from richard and one from matt
14:30:21 <addison> ... about character restrictions
14:31:24 <xfq> https://w3c.github.io/epub-specs/epub33/core/#sec-container-filenames
14:31:56 <addison> xfq: they changed to text to include all non-tag characters
14:32:31 <addison> s/non-tag/non-/
14:33:00 <addison> addison: never is a long time: don't think they should limit valid characters
14:33:17 <addison> richard: no actual restrictions except for 32 characters
14:33:28 <r12a> https://w3c.github.io/epub-specs/epub33/core/#sec-container-filenames
14:35:25 <addison> addison: think disallowing tag characters is a problem
14:37:27 <addison> ... if characters are not a problem in file systems either is a barrier to users or ends up with reqs being ignored
14:38:18 <addison> close 1380, open new issues
14:38:28 <xfq> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1355
14:38:58 <addison> xfq: they have name attribute, IDL. they said it's only used as identifier
14:40:10 <xfq> https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs/issues/1633
14:40:17 <addison> addison: is it true?
14:40:51 <addison> ... could be okay with it
14:41:07 <xfq> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1354
14:41:18 <addison> close 1355
14:41:29 <addison> xfq: length of path and file names
14:42:38 <addison> ... propose close, they added text
14:42:42 <addison> addison: lgtm
14:42:42 <xfq> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1353
14:42:55 <addison> xfq: encoding of css files
14:43:06 <addison> ... why UTF-16 was mentioned?
14:43:13 <addison> ... was historical stuff
14:43:32 <addison> ... new text: UTF-8 is recommended, can choose either UTF
14:43:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/26-i18n-minutes.html addison
14:46:05 <r12a> Topic: Web Payments
14:46:07 <r12a> https://w3c.github.io/secure-payment-confirmation/
14:46:41 <xfq> scribe: xfq
14:46:49 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen++label%3As%3Asecure-payment-confirmation+
14:47:12 <xfq> addison: three pending and one tracker
14:47:17 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1413
14:47:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/26-i18n-minutes.html xfq
14:48:49 <xfq> r12a: i suspect this is the sort of thing that they all want to discuss
14:49:12 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1412
14:49:18 <xfq> ... maybe we can discuss this in the joint meeting to get more informed feedback
14:49:49 <xfq> addison: 1412
14:50:07 <xfq> ... it has natural language text string but with no language metadata
14:50:21 <xfq> s/language metadata/language and direction metadata/
14:50:21 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1411
14:51:36 <xfq> r12a: most of the strings are USVStrings, but this one is DOMString
14:51:51 <xfq> ... don't know why they treat them differently
14:52:31 <xfq> dictionary PaymentCredentialInstrument {
14:52:32 <xfq>     required DOMString displayName;
14:52:32 <xfq>     required USVString icon;
14:52:32 <xfq> };
14:53:09 <xfq> r12a: they can get the language and direction from the html page they're embedded?
14:53:27 <xfq> addison: it's an externally supplied piece of information
14:54:06 <r12a> https://github.com/w3c/secure-payment-confirmation/issues/93#issuecomment-923145826
14:55:42 <xfq> addison: the heart of all this is do we think natural language text need language and direction metadata all the time
14:56:41 <xfq> ... introducing new structure could break things, i understand that
14:56:57 <xfq> ... but for new things should we add metadata or not?
14:57:09 <xfq> r12a: i think we should add metadata
14:57:27 <addison> Topic: CSS
14:57:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/26-i18n-minutes.html addison
14:57:57 <r12a> https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/projects/24
14:58:19 <xfq> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2021Sep/0013.html
15:33:46 <atsushi> atsushi has joined #i18n
15:38:36 <r12a> https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/projects/24
15:40:16 <r12a> https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/4910#issuecomment-619342561
15:41:54 <xfq> r12a: Order of discussion
15:42:13 <xfq> addison: font fingerprinting issue is important
15:42:18 <xfq> ... and generic font family
15:42:31 <xfq> s/family/family issue/
15:42:46 <xfq> r12a: fallback @@
15:43:09 <xfq> ... different generic styles for different scripts
15:43:20 <xfq> ... there's the questions of , how do you make that work
15:43:29 <xfq> s/questions/question
15:44:25 <xfq> r12a: i think that also addresses the issue "What does fangsong map to for non chinese"
15:44:48 <xfq> ... and "Specify what generic font family maps to nastaliq"
15:45:35 <xfq> ... for flow-relative syntax for margin-like shorthands, we're very closed to the solution
15:47:17 <xfq> r12a: about #6319, the color one, it's only marginally involved in i18n
15:47:36 <xfq> ... i don't think we should spend too much time on it unless we have loads of time left over
15:48:30 <xfq> r12a: i'm generally kind of wary of talk ing bout ruby because it is a huge sinkhole
15:48:43 <xfq> s/talk ing bout/talking about
15:50:36 <xfq> topic: Discuss outcome of WP meeting
15:50:47 <xfq> addison: i think that was the right outcome
15:51:20 <xfq> ... if we solve it in TC 39, it will be a long conversation
15:52:02 <xfq> r12a: could we change it to something like internationalized string?
15:52:33 <xfq> ... People might misunderstand the name localizable
15:54:14 <xfq> addison: people will type it in definitions
15:54:25 <xfq> [Discuss the naming]
15:55:10 <xfq> addison: we don't mean localization, we mean adding metadata to strings we already have
15:55:21 <xfq> r12a: i think you're right
15:56:11 <r12a> ... that we need to push on for a solution of the lang/dir string thing
15:57:12 <xfq> addison: do we need to do other things, like do an explainer?
15:58:35 <xfq> addison: meet with CSS tomorrow
15:58:47 <xfq> r12a: we need to read these threads again
15:59:23 <xfq> addison: will send an email to Murata-san
15:59:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/26-i18n-minutes.html xfq