07:12:45 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #project-fugu
07:12:45 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/10/21-project-fugu-irc
07:12:48 <dom> RRSAgent, stay
07:12:51 <dom> RRSAgent, make log public
08:40:44 <JohnJansen> JohnJansen has joined #project-fugu
13:59:32 <rakuco> rakuco has joined #project-fugu
14:10:10 <dom> dom has joined #project-fugu
14:47:54 <tomayac> tomayac has joined #project-fugu
14:48:18 <tomayac> Hey folks! The call is gonna happen in 12min on https://zoom.us/j/99737295069?pwd=MHJMMGVXNEYweUdJdFEvdFQ2cXZSZz09.
14:51:20 <Kenneth> Kenneth has joined #project-fugu
14:51:33 <Kenneth> Hello breakout fishies
14:55:56 <NotWoods> NotWoods has joined #project-fugu
14:57:44 <jsbell> jsbell has joined #project-fugu
14:58:33 <takio> takio has joined #project-fugu
14:59:24 <jake> jake has joined #project-fugu
15:01:03 <aleventhal> aleventhal has joined #project-fugu
15:02:41 <BarbaraH> BarbaraH has joined #project-fugu
15:03:25 <tidoust> tidoust has joined #project-fugu
15:04:28 <JohnJansen> present+
15:04:49 <rakuco> present+
15:04:51 <ktoumura> ktoumura has joined #project-fugu
15:05:15 <scheib> scheib has joined #project-fugu
15:05:51 <gsnedders1> gsnedders1 has joined #project-fugu
15:10:39 <odejesush> odejesush has joined #project-fugu
15:18:49 <cyns> cyns has joined #project-fugu
15:25:12 <aleventhal> Does WebKit have a concern about the API even when used in a PWA?
15:30:29 <zkis_> zkis_ has joined #project-fugu
15:32:12 <gsnedders1> Can we also stop the live transcription, given that's also recorded?
15:34:33 <rakuco> tidoust: ^
15:34:48 <scheib> Notes for discussion,  All, please help.
15:35:14 <scheib> aaron leventhal, asking about permissions and if install signal helps users understand that a web app can do more
15:35:19 <scheib> ... has there been user research?
15:35:45 <scheib> Alex Russell notes that there has been some research, but often narrowly done
15:35:55 <scheib> ... there are multiple browsers with different approaches
15:36:03 <scheib> ... api shapes are designed to enable different approaches
15:37:09 <scheib> cyns: User Research: curious how much has been done, what more can be done
15:37:33 <scheib> ... investigate how users think about PWAs
15:37:38 <scheib> ... are they apps, web sites, etc...
15:38:45 <jungkees> jungkees has joined #project-fugu
15:39:02 <scheib> ... e.g. with accessibility, users often have concerns around privacy
15:39:28 <scheib> ... desktop apps have capabilities that users typically accept, where they have reservations if web sites could do the same.
15:40:18 <scheib> Alex R: We have kept most of the capabilities behind dedicated permission prompts
15:40:26 <scheib> ... available in an installed state and tab
15:40:34 <scheib> ... should have dedicated treatment per permission
15:44:27 <scheib> Vincent Scheib: There is research about permissions
15:44:45 <scheib> ... e.g. types of permissions, permission fatigue, permission understanding
15:45:15 <scheib> ... Chrome has tried to avoid 'allow/deny' permissions when a chooser or selection permission can work.
15:45:37 <scheib> Reilly Grant: Unaware of the intersection of install + permissions
15:45:39 <Laura__> Laura__ has joined #project-fugu
15:46:23 <scheib> ... believe we should be wary of tying permissions to install.  Don't want incentives to "get X by first doing Y"
15:46:46 <scheib> Zoltan Kis: There are web apps installed from stores
15:47:03 <scheib> John Jansen: Microsoft Store
15:47:20 <scheib> ... apps are denoted as being powered by Edge
15:47:31 <scheib> ... not clear if users understand that these apps are "just a webpage"
15:47:53 <scheib> ... treatment of a PWA when installed via store vs from browser?
15:48:01 <scheib> ... case study: ride sharing app
15:48:16 <scheib> ... from a store, it seems fair to presume location access is desired
15:48:30 <scheib> ... but should that allow a web site to have location?
15:49:13 <scheib> Zoltan Kis: Experiments with a control bar?
15:49:54 <scheib> Kenneth Christianson: Chrome does this for at least some permissions, showing what permissions are in place?
15:50:28 <scheib> FYI 30 participants at this point
15:50:52 <scheib> Tom Steiner: There are discussions around:
15:51:03 <scheib> ... declaring multiple permissions upfront
15:51:10 <scheib> ... time-boxing permissions
15:52:11 <scheib> Reilly Grant: Many users seek applications in store
15:53:04 <scheib> ... (Note taker lost audio...!)
15:57:56 <scheib> ... (Note taker maybe is back...)
15:58:55 <scheib> Assitive technologies
16:09:32 <tomayac> The deck with all the links if people want to follow along: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1n0a7pVqmFcBALXqf4vJzZBB_fj84yfHVDcaiyMk-lZk/edit?usp=sharing
16:25:36 <odejesush> odejesush has left #project-fugu