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14:56:04 <Rain> ack Rain
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15:02:54 <Rain> Slide deck: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1YeqvkeE6xbh8yAAUvliA6v4MqbLsj28dFxzRcMyGTz0/edit#slide=id.p
15:03:44 <Jennie3> Rain: Welcome to the Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Making Content Usable Panel
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15:03:54 <Jennie3> Rain: This session is meant to be a conversation.
15:04:03 <Jennie3> ...You may have questions that reveal some of your stories.
15:04:22 <Jennie3> ...We want to give a chance for anyone concerned about recording to state that now.
15:04:33 <Jennie3> ...And is it ok to make this recording public after TPAC?
15:04:37 <Jennie3> q?
15:04:50 <Jennie3> Rain: No concerns have been shared.
15:05:03 <Jennie3> Rain: (reviews agenda)
15:05:13 <Jennie3> ...Slides will be available to reference at another time.
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15:05:31 <Jennie3> Rain: We will review the objectives, and go through some with panelists. Then we will open up to questions.
15:05:39 <Jennie3> ...We will then talk about what's next.
15:05:47 <Jennie3> ...You can submit your questions through IRC
15:06:11 <Jennie3> ...You can cue in IRC using the letter q then the plus sign
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15:06:33 <Jennie3> ...3 panelists today: Lisa Seeman - co-facilitator
15:06:52 <Jennie3> ...John Kirkwood is also a member of the COGA task force
15:07:11 <Jennie3> ...David Fazio - also a member of the COGA task force
15:07:25 <Jennie3> ...panelists are coga users
15:07:37 <Jennie3> ...I am Rain Michaels, and a co-facilitator of the task force
15:08:01 <Jennie3> ...Include this as part of everything you do
15:08:16 <Jennie3> ...Latest statistics: 930 million people worldwide are a part of this group
15:08:23 <Jennie3> ...This does not count those that are undiagnosed
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15:08:38 <Jennie3> ...About 12% of the US population are estimated to have cognitive disabilities
15:08:55 <Jennie3> ...Between 12 and 20% of people show signs of dyslexia
15:09:11 <Jennie3> ...Looking at these numbers show this is not niche - it is part of our global population
15:09:13 <Jemma> present+
15:09:20 <Jennie3> ...Cognitive accessibility is imperative
15:09:36 <Jennie3> ...Especially in light of COVID: digital experiences are important
15:09:54 <Jennie3> ...Some of the functional needs include attention, language and literacy
15:10:03 <Jennie3> ...learning, mental health
15:10:14 <Jennie3> ...Reviewing the slides will share more about the diagnoses
15:10:18 <Jennie3> ...The slides have more information
15:10:41 <Jennie3> ...The slide shows a working father, with 2 children with him at the table while he is trying to work
15:10:56 <Jennie3> ...Cognitive needs can be situational or temporary, example fatigue and others
15:11:02 <Jennie3> ...Shifting gears
15:11:05 <Jennie3> ...What is COGA?
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15:11:17 <Jennie3> ...Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force
15:11:24 <Joshue108> present+
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15:11:35 <Jennie3> ...Goal: improve web accessibility and usability for people with cognitive and learning disabilities and differences
15:11:56 <Jennie3> ...There are many myths and biases - causes people to misunderstand, misjudge the numbers
15:12:06 <Jennie3> ...The task force has 2 parent working groups
15:12:12 <Jennie3> ...APA WG and AG WG
15:12:24 <Jennie3> ...We also have a community group which is independent of the task force
15:12:35 <Jennie3> ...We invite attendees to join this commnity group
15:12:53 <Jennie3> ...COGA recently published Making Content Usable for People with Cognitive and Learning Disabilities
15:13:02 <Jennie3> ...We are collaborating with the Silver Task Force for WCAG 3
15:13:11 <Jennie3> ...We are also working on a mental health literature review
15:13:30 <Jennie3> ...We plan to release 2.0 of Content Usable, learn more about mental health, and more emphasis on internationalization
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15:13:44 <Jennie3> ...Making Content Usable: aim is to remove cognitive barriers
15:13:50 <Jennie3> ...This document has many sections
15:14:10 <Jennie3> ...Objectives, user stories, design guide, user testing, and personas
15:14:20 <Jennie3> Present_ Lisa Seeman
15:14:27 <Jennie3> Present+ Lisa Seeman
15:14:35 <Jennie3> Present+ John Kirkwood
15:14:40 <Jennie3> Present+ Rain Michaels
15:14:47 <Jennie3> Present+ David Fazio
15:14:59 <Jennie3> Rain: we are going to start with the 1st objective: what things are, how to use them
15:15:12 <Jennie3> ...I am going to turn to John Kirkwood to talk about this
15:15:20 <Jemma> present+
15:15:21 <Rain> q?
15:15:30 <Jennie3> John K: I have a cognitive disability due to a brain aneurysm
15:15:44 <Jennie3> ...This has similarities to the impact on a person who is agining
15:15:52 <Jennie3> ...agingn
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15:16:08 <Jennie3> ...Helping users understand what things are and how to use them is something a lot of people feel sometimes
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15:16:17 <Jennie3> ...This is similar to the issues with flat design
15:16:18 <Fazio> present+
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15:16:28 <Jennie3> ...An aging family member may encounter a flat design
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15:16:50 <Jennie3> ...And they may not find the interactive elements because some of the visuals indicating something is a button are not there
15:16:58 <Jennie3> ...People can be lost from a cognitive perspective
15:17:16 <Jennie3> ...This cna be a difficult area for people with cognitive issues
15:17:17 <Fazio> the COVID 19 Small Business Administration disaster loan relief site for federal US government had this problem
15:17:21 <Jennie3> Rain: Thank you John
15:17:28 <Jennie3> ...This reminds me of the concept of affordances
15:17:39 <Jennie3> ...areas of a something to inform you on how to use it
15:17:49 <Fazio> saliency
15:17:53 <Jennie3> ...An affordance does not exist if the person perceiving it does not recognize it
15:18:05 <Jennie3> Rain: there are ways to ensure the important factors are visible
15:18:30 <Jennie3> David F: This is important when I was looking at the Disaster Loan Programs
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15:18:40 <Jennie3> ...There is one for small businesses hurting during the pandemic
15:18:40 <Francis_Storr> present+
15:18:52 <Jennie3> ...There are lots of images that look like buttons, but they are not all buttons
15:18:55 <JustineP> present+
15:19:08 <Jennie3> ...In order for any user to understand what needs to be done - the image needs to have saliency
15:19:14 <Jennie3> ...It needs to differentiate itself.
15:19:24 <Jennie3> ...And it needs to communicate that something needs to be done with it
15:19:34 <Jennie3> ...For people with cognitive disabilities, this needs to be really clear
15:19:50 <Jennie3> ...Some of us do not always know what to do with some of these
15:19:58 <Jennie3> ...Memories are neural patterns
15:20:04 <Jennie3> ...If we forget them, we lose out on that opportunity
15:20:14 <Jennie3> Rain: That is a good segway to the next object - #2
15:20:19 <Jennie3> ...Helping users find what they need
15:20:40 <Jennie3> Rain: Lisa has an important story about not being able to find what you need
15:20:43 <Fazio> you can still go to the SBA's EIDL site and see what I mean
15:20:49 <Jennie3> Lisa: I have an impaired visual memory, among other things
15:20:59 <Jennie3> ...The word recognition thing people can do is difficult for me
15:21:13 <Jennie3> ...When my daughter was in pre-school
15:21:20 <Jennie3> ...They used to send a really long newsletter
15:21:30 <Jennie3> ...It had lots of information that was nice, but not urgent
15:21:38 <Jennie3> ...As a slow reader I would not read the whole thing
15:21:57 <Jennie3> ...One week they had important information down in the content: the kindergarten was closing early for an event in the evening
15:22:05 <Jennie3> ...I was not going to get to it
15:22:12 <Jennie3> ...I showed up at the typical time
15:22:16 <Jennie3> ...And this was late
15:22:34 <Jennie3> ...I had asked for an accommodation - for information that was important presented earlier
15:22:48 <Rain> q?
15:22:48 <Jennie3> ...This is something important to remember: put important information right at the top
15:23:06 <Jennie3> ...Short, helpful headings that can bring to people's attention the information they need
15:23:14 <Jennie3> ...Both in the information, and the structure of the site
15:23:27 <Jennie3> Present+ Tzviya Siegman
15:23:31 <Fazio> HCI studies show all users scan web pages for information they're looking for. This is called top down attentive selection with a pre-attentive set )bias of what it should look like)
15:23:48 <Jennie3> Lisa: These user needs and being taken into account as part of a specification, it can make it really strong
15:24:01 <Jennie3> Rain: Thank you. The next objective: use clear and understandable content
15:24:09 <Jennie3> ...Lisa you have another good story about this
15:24:14 <Jennie3> Lisa: My late father had dementia
15:24:24 <Jennie3> ...when he was still able to live alone with some support
15:24:34 <Jennie3> ...He had an upgraded heating/air conditioning unit
15:24:45 <Jennie3> ...The interface had the word "mode" to switch between heating and cooling
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15:24:59 <Jennie3> ...He could manage pretty well. Someone came in, turned on the air conditioning, and left
15:25:11 <Jennie3> ...He couldn't turn it back to heating once alone - mode did not mean anything to him
15:25:26 <Jennie3> ...Learning a new interface was not something he could remember for longer than a half hour
15:25:34 <Jennie3> ...New information, new jargon, was not going to work for him
15:25:38 <Jennie3> ...He got hyperthermia
15:25:48 <Jennie3> ...Thank goodness my sister arrived and took him to the emergency room
15:25:59 <Jennie3> ...This was the point we decided to have a live-in care giver for him
15:26:20 <Fazio> multiple deliveries of information is important (text + image)
15:26:23 <Jennie3> ...This word, if it had said "heating/air conditioning" he may have been able to stay independent for another 6 months - year
15:26:42 <Jennie3> ...This group is likely to rise in numbers, and the care costs will also increase
15:27:02 <Jennie3> ...Familiar vocabulary and interfaces can increase their ability to remain independent for longer
15:27:04 <Fazio> use the 1st question is free rule
15:27:06 <Jennie3> Rain: thank you Lisa
15:27:19 <Jennie3> ...The next objective: helping users avoid mistakes and know how to correct them.
15:27:29 <Fazio> if a question is asked twice it's time for a visual device
15:27:31 <Jennie3> Present+ Juanita George
15:27:37 <Jennie3> Present+ Julie Rawe
15:27:45 <Jennie3> Present+ Sam Kanta
15:27:46 <Judy> q+
15:28:07 <Jennie3> Rain: David has some good stories on paying taxes
15:28:20 <Jennie3> q?
15:28:38 <Jennie3> David F: Our brain can only take in so much during a day
15:28:51 <Jennie3> ...When we sleep, anything we have not added into neural patterns get pushed out
15:29:00 <Jennie3> ...Taking in more information during the day is why we get tired
15:29:19 <Jennie3> ...Working through forms, making mistakes...adds to our stress, makes us less able to formulate new memories
15:29:37 <Jennie3> ...You continue to make the same mistake over and over
15:29:56 <Jennie3> ...It can impact your life in a serious way, like trying to pay your taxes, or make a deadline to pay a bill
15:30:12 <Jennie3> ...Once a person with a cognitive disability forgets something, it is gone!
15:30:19 <Judy> [Judy is finding the panel discussion excellent and extremely informative, but was concerned to hear WCAG characterized as only covering issues of visual perception. It is broader than that. Perhaps toward the end of the presentation it may be possible to comment on that.]
15:30:32 <Jennie3> q?
15:30:59 <Jennie3> John K: This is important. Banking, other services are all moving on line
15:31:05 <Jennie3> q?
15:31:33 <Jennie3> John K: This can make people visually overwhelmed, visually overwhelmed - to help people prepare for the process
15:32:52 <Jennie3> Judy: I am loving the panel discussion. Thank you for both the content and different perspectives
15:32:56 <Fazio> attenvisual masking and inattentional blindness cause this also
15:33:07 <Jennie3> ...I would like to express some nervousness about how the WCAG guidelines were characterized.
15:33:15 <Jennie3> ...I think it is broader in terms of disability coverage.
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15:33:31 <Jennie3> ...There are many, many issues that we want to be covering much better in the language and learning areas.
15:33:44 <Jennie3> ....I am greatful for the work being done.
15:33:51 <Jennie3> Rain: that was not our attention.
15:33:58 <Jennie3> ...I appreciate the correction.
15:34:14 <Jennie3> ...What I was trying to communicate was the degree of difference when considering understandability
15:34:27 <Jennie3> ...when thinking about cognitive differences
15:34:30 <Jennie3> ...Thank you both for that correction Judy.
15:34:44 <Jennie3> David F: To put it into context most of the world we take in is visual
15:34:50 <Jennie3> ...Magic tricks is an example
15:35:06 <Jennie3> ...There is visual masking: you look at something, something else happens, you don't notice a portion changing
15:35:13 <Jennie3> ...There is also attentional blindness
15:35:20 <Jennie3> ...This is how magicians do their tricks
15:35:28 <Jennie3> ...This happens when completing an onling form
15:35:47 <Jennie3> ...An advertisement can capture your attention, it can wipe your memory clean, and you don't remember what you were doing before
15:35:56 <Jennie3> ...This can cause people to make mistakes
15:36:11 <Jennie3> Rain: David you did just describe our next objective which is help users maintain focus!
15:36:26 <Jennie3> Lisa: All these issues being described might be overwhelming.
15:36:43 <Jennie3> ...In Making Content Usable we have identified bad patterns, but also shared good design
15:36:57 <Jennie3> ...Example at the beginning of a task telling people what they need - that is one example
15:37:14 <stevelee> https://www.w3.org/TR/coga-usable/#summary
15:37:14 <Jennie3> ...We are really trying to help people identify why people are abandoning tasks
15:37:29 <Jennie3> ...so these types of issues don't arise in the first place, especially when developing new technologies
15:37:43 <Fazio> A lot of these patterns/objectives effect one another
15:37:52 <Jennie3> Rain: thank you. Good discussion on  helping users avoid mistakes. And David introduced the distraction concept
15:37:57 <Jennie3> ...I have my own example of this
15:38:10 <Fazio> I do that a lot too
15:38:12 <Jennie3> ...I was in the middle of trying to pay something really important, something distracted me
15:38:35 <Jennie3> ...My focus was taken away, I never did the final submit! I ended up being late, and had expensive penalties
15:39:01 <Jennie3> ...All that the content created needed to do for something important in the flow - don't distract the user from taking the final step
15:39:11 <Jennie3> ...The next objective: ensuring that processes do not rely on memory
15:39:24 <Jennie3> Present+ Becky Gibson
15:39:29 <Jennie3> Present+ Bev Corwin
15:39:31 <Rain> q?
15:39:35 <Rain> ack Jennie3
15:39:38 <Rain> ack Judy
15:39:39 <Jennie3> Present+ Kim Patch
15:39:45 <Fazio> we got this into a WCAG 2.2 Success Criteria, Redundant Entry (do not rely on memory)
15:39:49 <Jennie3> Present+ Steve Lee
15:40:06 <Jennie3> Lisa: After I lock myself out of my accounts, I send an email to my accountant and she can help me
15:40:16 <Jennie3> ...Sometimes I drive to the bank, and they can be quite nasty about it
15:40:29 <Jennie3> ...Another person shared with me that they rely on their caregiver to help with this
15:40:35 <Jennie3> ...This can be a real security breach!
15:40:42 <Jennie3> ...Others write down their passworc
15:40:50 <Jennie3> ...password, and this can be less secure
15:41:09 <Jennie3> ...As people make things more secure, when they don't include these user needs, they are making them less secure
15:41:30 <Jennie3> ...Having a few user stories and scenarios could have improved the process
15:41:43 <Jennie3> ...While this is getting better, it could still be improved
15:41:55 <Jennie3> Rain: If you were only to do one thing and nothing else, this one is the most important
15:42:10 <Jennie3> ...To provide help and support - to help those that are blocked, to get the help that they need
15:42:20 <Jennie3> Present+ Francis Storr
15:42:25 <Jennie3> Present+ cmarte
15:42:31 <Jennie3> Present+ Chris Weidner
15:42:40 <Jennie3> Lisa: The data with smart cities was another pattern we found
15:42:46 <Rain> q?
15:42:53 <Jennie3> ...People are using an app for parking, and it is WCAG accessible
15:43:07 <Jennie3> ...It has lots of words, there are ads to sell you car insurance, and other things
15:43:16 <Jennie3> ...Those that are aging and have age related memory loss
15:43:26 <Jennie3> ...They tend to put money into the machine instead of using the app
15:43:41 <Jennie3> ...They don't want to commit to using something, they are avoiding using the app
15:43:54 <Jennie3> ...This group is now excluded as part of the user group, as part of the decision making
15:44:14 <Jennie3> ...For things like how long lights last, other decisions being drawn through the data from this app
15:44:20 <Fazio> super important point Lisa +1
15:44:25 <Jennie3> ...When people cannot manage the app groups are being invisible
15:44:34 <Jennie3> ...You won't even know you are missing data - who is not there?
15:44:55 <Jennie3> Rain: people becoming invisible - it is not that they are not trying to use the tool, but they are blocked
15:45:11 <Jennie3> John K: The importance of having that findable area of help, no matter where you are, or throughout a process
15:45:25 <Jennie3> ...Sometimes it is the 3rd time you have done it, but having one specific place that is ever-present
15:45:38 <Jennie3> ...That allows a user to get the help they need - makes a better experience for everyone
15:45:43 <Jennie3> ...The place is clear, findable
15:46:04 <Jennie3> ...As a developer or designer, you may not know the abandonnment on page 5 takes time, or has a visual overload for some
15:46:18 <Jennie3> ...Indicates why there is abandonnment at that time due to something like processing speed
15:46:42 <Jennie3> David F: I have an anecdote from user research on whether people would purchase for a major fast food chain
15:46:59 <Jennie3> ...These individuals were in their late 50s or 60s. They had not made an online purchase
15:47:17 <Jennie3> ....They reported that they were not sure of what they were doing - they did not feel confident
15:47:30 <Jennie3> ...that they were doing the right thing. So they had never made a purchase anywhere
15:47:37 <Jennie3> ...Even though they had smartphones
15:47:47 <Jennie3> ...If there had been ways to get help, they may have made these purchases
15:48:01 <Jennie3> Present+ Rashmi Katakwar
15:48:16 <Jennie3> Rain: the final objective: support adaptation and personalization
15:48:30 <Jennie3> ...I rely on large phones, text to speech extension, and reduced motion
15:48:51 <Jennie3> ...When my settings or extensions are blocked by an interface, I am unable to visually process the information and my brain shuts off
15:49:02 <Jennie3> ...What we are talking about is not needs for a niche group of people
15:49:14 <Jennie3> ...I am an interaction designer, we are part of the work force, part of the day to day
15:49:28 <Jennie3> ...We are the people for whom the specification is being designer for
15:49:35 <Jennie3> ...We are ready for questions
15:49:36 <Rain> q?
15:49:42 <Jennie3> ...Please use the IRC or Zoom chat
15:49:54 <Fazio> don't be shy
15:50:17 <Jennie3> Lisa: Personalization is an excellent example of where the W3C can be part of the solution
15:50:33 <Jennie3> ...From distractions, to unfamiliar symbols, to can you highlight the right thing
15:50:37 <Rain> q?
15:50:39 <Jennie3> ...These can be part of good semantics
15:50:45 <Jennie3> ...and well designed specifications
15:50:50 <avneeshsingh> Very good session, it completely booked my full attention, a great model for for other groups to follow. And of course great information conveyed through personal stories.
15:51:10 <Rain> q?
15:51:20 <Jennie3> John K: These parameters for cognitive accessibility have been looked at a lot, by lots of different companies
15:51:28 <Jennie3> ...Companies are doing conversation design
15:51:42 <Jennie3> ...There is lots going on around keeping information clear and concise - like phone trees
15:52:01 <Jennie3> ...They have examined interaction designs for phone trees that could be brought over into the other spaces
15:52:28 <Jennie3> ...Cognitive principles - you can get to the information in a quick way, just like designing for mobile
15:52:41 <Jennie3> ...These parameters can really help from a cognitive design perspective
15:52:44 <Rain> q?
15:52:55 <Jennie3> David F: Many social  media companies are looking into this
15:53:06 <Jennie3> ...Help users have a positive experience
15:53:19 <Jennie3> ...When a user enjoys doing something, this creates dopamine bursts in the brain
15:53:32 <Jennie3> ...It helps us refocus, reduces our stress, helps us have an easier time
15:53:43 <Jennie3> ...Focus on the positive aspects, and delight people as they move through the process
15:54:09 <Jennie3> Rain: That is an interesting point, David. I have been reading that when something is novel or unexpected
15:54:19 <Jennie3> ...it increases their ability to focus
15:54:30 <Jennie3> John K: Unfortunately, this also applies to pop up ads
15:54:37 <Jennie3> Lisa: and something this works against us too
15:54:52 <Jennie3> Rain: Exactly! The confetti bursts can interrupt cognitive
15:55:04 <Jennie3> ...In content usable we have an entire section on testing with users
15:55:24 <Jennie3> ...working with an inclusive group of people, and finding out how they respond so you can find that balance
15:55:33 <Jennie3> ...between what is supportive, and captures the interest
15:55:50 <Jennie3> ...David also helps us remember that individuals may have cognitive skills they are not able to use
15:55:58 <Jennie3> ...Maybe someone has challenges with task following
15:56:08 <Jennie3> ...But they may also have strengths in other cognitive skill areas
15:56:19 <Jennie3> ...This can play into specifications as we think about multi-modality
15:56:26 <Jennie3> ...What cognitive skills do these require?
15:56:39 <Rain> q?
15:56:40 <Jennie3> ...Can someone use another cognitive skill that maybe they are better at using
15:56:50 <julierawe__> Rain reminder: Ask if OK to share the recording publicly.
15:56:53 <Jennie3> ...Please feel free to reach out to us
15:57:13 <Jennie3> Rain: I would like to remind attendees that we just covered some of the topic. This is very complex
15:57:25 <Jennie3> ...There are only 3 panelists here describing their specific experience.
15:57:39 <Jennie3> ...Please take time to look at the resources included in the slides
15:57:50 <Jennie3> ...What can you do for cognitive accessibility?
15:57:54 <Jennie3> ...1. Work with COGA
15:58:04 <Jennie3> ...2. Add some of these user needs to your work
15:58:10 <Jennie3> ...3. Ask us to review your work
15:58:32 <Jennie3> ...We want to help you reach out to us! There are recordings of the session on how to work with COGA
15:58:39 <Jennie3> ...And we want to raise awareness!
15:58:58 <Jennie3> ...Tell people about the task force, about our community group, share feedback on Content Usable document, and join us!
15:59:11 <Jennie3> ...Email the co-chairs
15:59:46 <Jennie3> David F: having animals in the work place is positive!
15:59:52 <Rain> Our email addresses: lisa.seeman@zoho.com and rainb@google.com
15:59:54 <Jennie3> John K: I agree with that!
16:00:08 <Jennie3> ...and bring cognitive thinking in early, especially designers
16:00:17 <Jennie3> ...People are excited about this
16:00:27 <Jennie3> ...This is an important part of design thinking
16:00:39 <Jennie3> Lisa: We are starting to work on mental health which has a huge overlap
16:00:50 <Rain> I forgot to thank Julie Rawe for incredible help with building this deck!
16:00:55 <Jennie3> ...If anyone is interested in that area as well, we will be publishing an update
16:01:02 <Rain> And thank you Jennie for scribing!
16:01:18 <Jennie3> Lisa: This is important in times of stress and crisis
16:01:38 <Jennie3> Rain: we are at time. Thank you Lisa, John, David.
16:01:45 <Jennie3> ...Thank you Judy for the correction
16:01:57 <Jennie3> ...Thank you Julie Rawe for helping with the deck, Jennie for subscribing.
16:02:09 <Jennie3> ...One more ask: is everyone ok with this being posted publicly?
16:02:19 <Jennie3> (no objections received)
16:02:26 <Jennie3> Rain: looking forward to the join sessions
16:02:42 <Jennie3> rrsagent, make minutes
16:02:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/21-cogapanel-minutes.html Jennie3
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