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06:44:45 <dom> RRSAgent, stay
06:44:49 <dom> RRSAgent, make log public
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13:51:09 <kaz> rrsagent, bye
13:51:09 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
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14:58:00 <kaz> meeting: Smart Cities Breakout - Day 1
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14:59:53 <Alan> present+ Alan
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15:02:19 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura_W3C, Rainer_Lang, Fatima_Bana__Glocal_QS, Hiroshi_Ota_Yahoo_Japan, Alan_Bird__W3C, Jeff_Jaffe__W3C, Lisa_Seeman, Ralph_Swick, Takio_Yamaoka__Yahoo_Japan, Tetsuhiko_Hirata__Hitachi, Tomoaki_Mizushima__IRI
15:03:13 <kaz> present+ Walter_Daves, WendySeltzer__W3C, Xiaoqian_Wu__W3C, Xueyuan_Jia__W3C, Yu_Wei_Chang__Yanni
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15:05:10 <cwilso> present+
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15:06:39 <Alan> scribe+
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15:06:58 <Alan> Kaz: Here is the Workshop page.   Here is the summary report.
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15:07:08 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/2021/06/smartcities-workshop/report.html workshop report
15:07:15 <Alan> ...There is an IG Charter that is in draft status.
15:07:21 <kaz> -> https://w3c.github.io/wot/charters/smart-cities/diff.html draft IG Charter
15:07:44 <Alan> ...The yellow parts are update from the Workshop Report.
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15:08:20 <Alan> ...The main purpose of this breakout is to review this charter to see if it's OK.
15:08:28 <Alan> ...Any questions or comments.
15:08:51 <Alan> Mike McCool: One thing I'm wondering is relationship to Smart Buildings.
15:09:05 <Alan> ...Tied to geolocation things like location of pipes.
15:09:11 <Alan> ...So this is a subset.
15:09:25 <Alan> Kaz: I think Smart Buildings is one use case.
15:09:45 <Alan> MikeMc: I think we want to make sure we're not excluding Smart Buildings.
15:10:17 <Alan> Kaz: A lot of this is copied from the Wkshp report.
15:10:38 <Alan> ...The main part is based on feedback from the Workshop and the many stakeholders.
15:11:02 <Alan> ...How do we improve this Charter is the question.
15:11:22 <Alan> [Kaz reviews Scope section]
15:13:17 <Alan> [Kaz discusses dependencies / relationships]
15:13:19 <wseltzer> q+
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15:14:11 <kaz> qq+ eric, lisa
15:14:22 <kaz> ack eric
15:14:22 <Zakim> eric, you wanted to react to a previous speaker
15:14:23 <wseltzer> qq+ lisa
15:14:52 <Alan> EricS: I've shared my input with you, we need the support of implementers, the cities or authorities, to get them involved to help set prioritization.
15:15:04 <Alan> ...My fear is we're defining the scope before we get that.
15:15:18 <Alan> ...It's highly regulated which works to our advantage.
15:15:40 <Alan> ...If we can get Singapore, Japan and China on board we'll get momementum.
15:15:56 <Alan> ...The authority tends to be more centralized there which would help.
15:16:12 <Alan> ...Let's make sure this IG enrolls the support of the Authorities and Cities.
15:16:25 <Alan> ...Otherwise we'll be adding more confusion vs. clarity.
15:16:36 <Alan> Kaz: Good point.  This is very important.
15:16:47 <jeff_> +1 Eric
15:16:57 <Alan> [discuss emphasis on this]
15:17:18 <Alan> Kaz: For example the Japanese gov't has just started this work.
15:17:37 <Alan> Eric: I know Murai-sensi would be supportive of this approach.
15:18:10 <Alan> Kaz: that is important and somewhat imcremental but needs to be major.
15:18:15 <kaz> During the group discussion, we'll continue to work on outreach to clarify the primary stakeholders from the industries, countries/cities and communities to involve in the group's work.
15:18:23 <kaz> ack lisa
15:18:23 <Zakim> lisa, you wanted to react to eric
15:18:44 <Alan> LisaS: I see that you have a bullet point re: accessibility which is good.
15:19:09 <Alan> ...On the last bullet point there are many different groups, we need to work with a more broader set of them.
15:19:27 <Alan> ...People could become invisible if we don't look for who isn't there in our datasets.
15:20:00 <Alan> ...We need to be making decisions so it's more important that we pay attention to what's missing.
15:20:36 <Alan> ...Looking at a subgroup level is potentially ignoring this.
15:20:59 <Alan> ...Let's not increase the problem, let's work to make it better and easier.
15:21:18 <Alan> q?
15:21:43 <Alan> Kaz: During the Workshop accessibility was important so I added things about inclusive design, etc.
15:22:36 <Alan> LisaS: The applications are really accessible for screen readers but they are very wordy with instructions, but the search for the missing people is important.
15:23:03 <Alan> Kaz: Regarding this we should tried to make the points but we should work on it more.
15:23:23 <Alan> ...For the Charter text itself, should we expand on the text?
15:23:54 <Alan> Wendy: What I hear is Lisa mentioning is explicitly who's missing from our datasets so that would be the point to make.
15:24:20 <kaz> q?
15:24:24 <Alan> LisaS: Specifically those with cognative and learning issues.
15:24:25 <kaz> ack ws
15:24:43 <Alan> Wendy: I noted you jumped right into analysis of the draft Charter.
15:25:09 <Alan> ...Since this is a breakout session where folks may not of seen the previous work I'd encourage folks to look at the links.
15:25:22 <Alan> ...Perhaps we want to hear from people who are newer to this work.
15:25:45 <Alan> ...Scanning the proposed work, where are the areas W3C and Web Standards can help.
15:26:10 <dom> -> https://w3c.github.io/webcomponents-cg/#constructable-stylesheets-adoptedstylesheets 4. Constructable Stylesheets & adoptedStyleSheets
15:26:55 <Alan> Kaz: There are so many concepts and implementations, they have different scopes and challenges.
15:27:07 <Alan> ...So we want to see where Web Technologies can help.
15:28:05 <jeff_> scrive+
15:28:08 <jeff_> scribe+
15:28:21 <jeff_> Kaz: Also listed expected participants
15:28:28 <jeff_> [enumerates list]
15:29:10 <jeff_> Kaz: Three separate sessions to accommodate time zones
15:29:17 <jeff_> ... feedback and great suggestions
15:29:22 <jeff_> ... identify stakeholders
15:29:37 <jeff_> ... feedback for IG as well
15:29:52 <jeff_> ... liaison with other standards orgs
15:30:07 <jeff_> ... related groups in W3C
15:30:27 <jeff_> ... global organizations (e.g. WEF)
15:30:44 <jeff_> .. updated proposed charter
15:30:48 <jeff_> ... that's the history
15:31:08 <jeff_> ... ask all for opinions and suggestions
15:31:16 <jeff_> q+
15:31:21 <kaz> q?
15:32:02 <jeff_> ack je
15:32:21 <jeff_> Jeff: Does anyone have concrete ideas on Eric's comments to grow the set of stakeholders?
15:32:29 <jeff_> Kaz: Yes, let's discuss that
15:33:11 <jeff_> ... supercity should be included as well
15:33:17 <jeff_> ... wondering about other countries
15:33:33 <jeff_> Eric: We have relationship with Singapore
15:33:38 <jeff_> ... some say they are leading
15:33:50 <jeff_> ... should add Japan and Chinese colleagues
15:34:02 <jeff_> ... maybe schedule a smaller group meetng
15:34:09 <jeff_> ... strategize; create a plan
15:34:30 <jeff_> ... if you have China, Japan, and Singapore - the rest of the Asian countries will follow
15:34:41 <jeff_> ... "fear of missing out"
15:35:13 <jeff_> Kaz: Thank you very much.
15:35:27 <jeff_> ... need to add China focus
15:35:50 <jeff_> ... other thoughts?
15:36:12 <jeff_> ... US or Europe?
15:37:13 <jeff_> Hirata-san: Korea has some examples
15:37:35 <jeff_> ... Busan Smart City project; some others
15:37:41 <jeff_> ... national project
15:37:57 <xueyuan_> q+
15:38:03 <jeff_> Kaz: Good suggestion
15:38:11 <jeff_> Eric: Good suggestion Hirata-san
15:38:27 <wseltzer> ack x
15:38:48 <jeff_> Xueyuan: Agree with Eric to have smaller meeting; including stakeholders from China, Singapore, Japan
15:39:03 <jeff_> ... I'll forward the invitation to stakeholders in China
15:39:51 <jeff_> Kaz: Should we ask Medea(?) about their impressions?
15:40:08 <jeff_> Xueyuan: Does Hualiang want to talk?
15:40:10 <kaz> s/Medea(?)/Midea/
15:40:24 <jeff_> Hualiang: I will check the link
15:40:33 <kaz> q+ Rob
15:40:38 <jeff_> Kaz: You are interested in this topic?
15:40:43 <jeff_> Hualiang: Yes
15:40:51 <kaz> ack r
15:40:55 <jeff_> Kaz: We will involve you; definitely.
15:41:04 <jeff_> Rob: OGC has some activity
15:41:11 <jeff_> ... did you make contact with them?
15:41:22 <jeff_> Kaz: They already participated well in workshop
15:41:25 <jeff_> ... great input
15:41:39 <jeff_> Rob: Thanks
15:42:26 <jeff_> Kaz: Let's revisit Michael's point about Smart Buildings
15:42:30 <kaz> q+ Michael
15:42:44 <jeff_> Michael: Business information systems is a big thing.
15:43:06 <jeff_> ... e.g. library is both a Smart-City item, but also a Smart building standard
15:43:15 <jeff_> ... not sure what to include, but we need a placeholder.
15:43:35 <jeff_> Kaz: We should add it to the list of tasks
15:43:39 <jeff_> Michael: Agreed.
15:43:57 <jeff_> Kaz: such as in Singapore
15:44:18 <jeff_> ... also W3C's WoT is already being used for building management in Japan
15:45:03 <jeff_> Michael: Also Geospatial standards are important.  But requirements are different: VR, land management,
15:45:10 <jeff_> ... need to ferret out different standards
15:45:30 <jeff_> ... need latitude and longitude before we enter; room number after we entire.
15:46:02 <jeff_> ... OGC is already looking at coordinate systems v layout
15:46:09 <jeff_> ... what about energy management?
15:46:16 <jeff_> ... so we need a placeholder
15:46:25 <jeff_> ... can be done in the IG
15:46:39 <jeff_> Kaz: We should list application areas
15:46:52 <jeff_> Michael: Can coordinate with building data CG
15:47:25 <jeff_> ... for distributed energy there are known use cases
15:47:33 <jeff_> ... sustainability is a key issue
15:48:03 <jeff_> Eric: If we don't get the right regulators to hear where they care
15:48:14 <jeff_> ... we can wander into all sorts of areas
15:48:21 <jeff_> ... Smart Cities is wide and diverse
15:48:31 <jeff_> ... so we need input and support
15:48:39 <jeff_> Michael: I support that
15:48:52 <jeff_> ... we can speculate about many topics
15:48:59 <jeff_> ... but what is key?
15:49:04 <jeff_> ... what fits with W3C?
15:49:21 <jeff_> ... we need to bootstrap by working with some cities.
15:49:34 <jeff_> ... Japan organization will prioritize for Japan
15:50:01 <jeff_> Kaz: Specifically the Ministry for (?) Technologies
15:50:12 <jeff_> Eric: which Murai-sensei set up
15:50:20 <jeff_> Kaz: been discussing with Jun
15:50:23 <kaz> s/(?)/Digital/
15:50:40 <jeff_> ... should clarify our starting point
15:51:26 <jeff_> ... Ota-san - any ideas?
15:51:33 <jeff_> Ota-san: Smart Cities is very big
15:51:40 <jeff_> ... contains many domains
15:51:47 <jeff_> ... need overview document
15:51:50 <jeff_> ... what is included
15:51:54 <jeff_> ... what is in scope
15:52:07 <jeff_> ... many people can work on it
15:52:17 <jeff_> Kaz: Really important
15:53:19 <jeff_> Topic: Wrap-up
15:53:28 <jeff_> Kaz: We reviewed the workshop
15:53:36 <jeff_> ... great advice about next steps
15:53:47 <jeff_> ... look at important stakeholders
15:54:04 <jeff_> ... small team of Asian stakeholders
15:54:11 <jeff_> ... involve more countries later
15:54:22 <jeff_> ... need to update IG charter based on feedback.
15:54:30 <jeff_> ... Second session later this week
15:54:38 <jeff_> ... (Thursday)
15:55:27 <jeff_> [adjourned]
15:55:33 <jeff_> rrsagent, make minutes
15:55:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/18-smart-cities-minutes.html jeff_
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16:26:14 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
16:27:07 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:27:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/18-smart-cities-minutes.html kaz
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