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06:44:20 <dom> RRSAgent, stay
06:44:23 <dom> RRSAgent, make log public
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14:39:11 <LouisMaher> meeting: From MathML to AT
14:39:39 <LouisMaher> chair: Neil Soiffer
14:40:19 <LouisMaher> scribe:  LouisMaher
14:41:54 <LouisMaher> LM: MathML Accessibility Gap Analysis https://w3c.github.io/mathml-docs/gap-analysis/
14:42:14 <LouisMaher> rrsagent, make minutes
14:42:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/18-a11y-math-minutes.html LouisMaher
14:43:00 <NeilS> NeilS has joined #a11y-math
14:43:52 <LouisMaher> presents"
14:44:45 <LouisMaher> rrsagent, make minutes
14:44:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/18-a11y-math-minutes.html LouisMaher
14:46:07 <LouisMaher> present+ LouisMaher
14:46:37 <LouisMaher> rrsagent, make minutes
14:46:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/18-a11y-math-minutes.html LouisMaher
14:51:33 <Bert> Bert has joined #a11y-math
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14:58:45 <murrays> present+
14:58:51 <Sam__> present+
14:58:55 <NeilS> present+
14:58:55 <davidc> present+
14:58:58 <Bert> present+
14:59:07 <Bert> RRSAgent, pointer?
14:59:07 <RRSAgent> See https://www.w3.org/2021/10/18-a11y-math-irc#T14-59-07
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14:59:19 <joanie> present+ Joanmarie_Diggs
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14:59:55 <Deyan> present+
15:00:07 <Bert> Meeting: From MathML to AT
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15:00:20 <SteveNoble__> present+
15:00:30 <shadi> present+
15:01:23 <LouisMaher> NS: reviewed the Gap Analysis document. Ns:
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15:02:01 <jasonjgw> present+
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15:25:27 <LouisMaher> NS: MathML has been accused of being different from the rest of the web.
15:26:06 <LouisMaher> ... We do not want to necessarily using our own solution and ignoring the rest of the web.
15:27:17 <LouisMaher> BK: This should not be a part of CSS.
15:28:19 <LouisMaher> PL: style sheets cold be a way forward.  He would like help from CSS experts.
15:29:41 <LouisMaher> NS: Should we use user style sheets?
15:30:16 <LouisMaher> eM: User style sheets are not widely used.
15:30:34 <LouisMaher> EM: Oral CSS was used ten years ago.
15:31:16 <LouisMaher> EM: Thinks pushing this into CS wold not be a good idea.
15:32:12 <LouisMaher> BK: If we are talking abut intents and subject we might be able to use standard dictionaries which wold allow us to use standard tools.
15:32:41 <murrays> Neil's presentation: https://w3c.github.io/mathml-docs/TPAC-2021/index.html
15:34:01 <LouisMaher> NS: talked about using rdfa or schema.org.  Was there any opinions on this?
15:34:43 <LouisMaher> BK: WE do not know what the ideal AT tree would be.  Would Aria label be useful?
15:35:32 <LouisMaher> BK: We need a way to go from ambigiuous markup to unambigious speech.  RDAF is very explicit.
15:36:35 <LouisMaher> BK: Many style sheets have been adopted that people use.
15:37:35 <LouisMaher> NS: No one hand writes MathML.  What are the tools able to generate?
15:39:18 <LouisMaher> JN: Orca does not spek things perfectly.  It does not have Braille accessibility.
15:41:05 <LouisMaher> JD: Says many groups must collabgorate on these solutions.
15:41:32 <LouisMaher> JD: Orca would like to have a common math library to give a consistent user experience.
15:42:11 <LouisMaher> JD: Do the screen writers have enough knowledge to know how to use the acessibility methods?
15:43:46 <LouisMaher> JD: we need to accommodate both speech and Braille.
15:44:18 <LouisMaher> rrsagent make minutes
15:45:03 <LouisMaher> rrsagent, make minutes
15:45:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/18-a11y-math-minutes.html LouisMaher
15:49:20 <LouisMaher> JW: Authors of math texts will define their own notational usage.  Houw would we address this?
15:50:11 <LouisMaher> JW: How would AT fit these cases.
15:51:00 <LouisMaher> NS: Using a CSS like solution, the authors cold guide the speech they want.  This is not a comon process.
15:52:12 <LouisMaher> NS: Users tend not tooverride the AT defaults.
15:53:36 <LouisMaher> EL:  Intent and subject seemed to be easier than other suggestions. Implementers must support this; therefore, keep it simple.
15:54:07 <LouisMaher> EL: supports writing a common library that people could use.
15:55:16 <LouisMaher> BK: we couold use a CSS like solution to pass down a string that would tellyou the Nemeth or speech using the tools we have, or we go back and get the actual mathML and pass it to a library that parses the math.
15:55:29 <LouisMaher> BK: the first method might be smoother.
15:55:56 <LouisMaher> NS: CSS can't be used to generate Nemeth.
15:56:59 <LouisMaher> EL: If there is enough information in the Markup to turn it into LaTeX, this would be good.
15:57:46 <LouisMaher> NS: the library could be based upon LaTeX.
15:58:15 <LouisMaher> NS: we can annotate with intent or CSS style sheets.
15:58:52 <LouisMaher> BK: wants to enable intent and subject to allow you to autogenerate aria labels for screen readers.
15:59:38 <LouisMaher> BK: Using CSS is similar to intent.
16:00:55 <LouisMaher> rrsagent, make minutes
16:00:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/18-a11y-math-minutes.html LouisMaher
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16:07:10 <LouisMaher> rrsagent, make minutes
16:07:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/18-a11y-math-minutes.html LouisMaher
16:09:02 <LouisMaher> s/necessarily using /necessarily use/
16:09:51 <LouisMaher> s/cold/could/
16:11:39 <LouisMaher> s/into CS /into CSS/
16:12:16 <LouisMaher> s/abut/about/
16:12:49 <LouisMaher> s/wold/would/
16:15:36 <LouisMaher> s/ambigiuous/ambiguous/
16:16:14 <LouisMaher> s/unambigious/unambiguous/
16:16:58 <LouisMaher> s/RDAF/RDFA/
16:18:38 <LouisMaher> s/JN:/JD:/
16:20:08 <LouisMaher> s/spek/speak/
16:21:43 <LouisMaher> s/collabgorate/collaborate/
16:22:36 <LouisMaher> s/acessibility/accessibility/
16:23:12 <LouisMaher> rrsagent, make minutes
16:23:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/18-a11y-math-minutes.html LouisMaher
16:25:30 <LouisMaher> s/useour/use our /
16:26:12 <LouisMaher> s/ignoring/ignore/
16:27:00 <LouisMaher> s/cold/could /
16:28:03 <LouisMaher> s/wold/would /
16:30:18 <LouisMaher> rrsagent, make minutes
16:30:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/18-a11y-math-minutes.html LouisMaher
16:31:26 <LouisMaher> spresents"//
16:32:09 <LouisMaher> se
16:32:39 <LouisMaher> s/useour own /use our own /
16:33:29 <LouisMaher> s/and ignoring/and ignore /
16:34:11 <LouisMaher> s/cold be /could be/
16:35:32 <LouisMaher> s/CSSwold not be a good idea./CSS would not be a good idea./
16:37:29 <LouisMaher> s/a comon /a common /
16:39:02 <LouisMaher> s/tooverride /to override /
16:40:23 <LouisMaher> se
16:40:47 <LouisMaher> s/couold /could/
16:42:02 <LouisMaher> s/autogenerate /auto-generate /
16:42:27 <LouisMaher> rrsagent, make minutes
16:42:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/18-a11y-math-minutes.html LouisMaher
16:44:25 <LouisMaher> s/CSSwould /CSS would /
16:45:21 <LouisMaher> se
16:45:40 <LouisMaher> s/rrsagent make minutes//
16:46:57 <LouisMaher> s/a comon process./a common process./
16:47:50 <LouisMaher> s/Users tend not tooverride the AT defaults./Users tend not to override the AT defaults./
16:48:42 <LouisMaher> s/we couold use /we could use /
16:49:21 <LouisMaher> rrsagent, make minutes
16:49:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/18-a11y-math-minutes.html LouisMaher
16:50:22 <LouisMaher> s/presents"/ /
16:52:58 <LouisMaher> s/we coulduse a/we could use a /
16:54:41 <LouisMaher> s|spresents"//||
16:56:19 <LouisMaher> rrsagent, make minutes
16:56:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/18-a11y-math-minutes.html LouisMaher
16:57:43 <LouisMaher> s/WE do /We do/
17:03:58 <LouisMaher> s/spresents//
17:04:29 <LouisMaher> rrsagent,  make minutes
17:04:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/18-a11y-math-minutes.html LouisMaher
17:05:29 <LouisMaher> e
17:06:13 <LouisMaher> s|s //||
17:06:21 <LouisMaher> rssagent, make minutes
17:15:40 <Zakim> Zakim has left #a11y-math
17:16:12 <LouisMaher> s/Was there any opinions on this?/Were there any opinions on this?
17:16:32 <LouisMaher> s/Was there any opinions on this?/Were there any opinions on this?/
17:18:44 <LouisMaher> s/ donot / do not /
17:21:16 <LouisMaher> s/houw/how/
17:22:05 <LouisMaher> s
17:22:30 <LouisMaher> s/tellyou/tell you/
18:09:51 <CharlesL> rssagent, make minutes
18:11:51 <CharlesL> CharlesL has left #a11y-math
18:12:28 <LouisMaher> rrsagent, make minutes
18:12:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/18-a11y-math-minutes.html LouisMaher
18:14:22 <LouisMaher> zakim, part
19:22:34 <Bert> RRSAgent, bye
19:22:34 <RRSAgent> I see no action items