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15:41:04 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/10/14-silver-conf-irc
15:41:14 <sajkaj> Meeting: Silver Conformance Options Subgroup
15:41:22 <sajkaj> Date: 14 Oct 2021
15:41:25 <sajkaj> Chair: sajkaj
15:41:33 <sajkaj> rrsagent, make log public
15:48:56 <sajkaj> agenda?
15:49:00 <sajkaj> Agenda+ Agenda Review & Administrative Items
15:49:00 <sajkaj> agenda+ TPAC Survival Guide
15:49:00 <sajkaj> agenda+ Media Continued https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/silver/wiki/Media.Next
15:49:03 <sajkaj> agenda+ Sampling & Reporting -- Initial Use Cases https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YgiOg3CZz-LAVxRT0CWUTWHzyVa3UrjqdU4NvoyUZ_8/
15:49:06 <sajkaj> agenda+ Other Business
15:49:09 <sajkaj> agenda+ Be Done
15:49:13 <sajkaj>  agenda?
15:50:10 <sajkaj> regrets: Azlan_Cuttilan, Bruce_Bailey
15:57:05 <sajkaj> present+
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16:00:52 <Bryan> present+
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16:01:31 <ToddLibby> present+
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16:02:01 <Wilco_> present+
16:02:40 <maryjom> present+
16:02:53 <Bryan> scribe: bryan
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16:04:55 <Bryan> sajkaj: not meeting coming week
16:05:30 <Bryan> Wilco_: AWAG continuing to meet, not Silver
16:06:13 <Bryan> Wilco_: AGWG continuing to meet
16:07:05 <Bryan> sajkaj: note is publishing by working group
16:07:51 <Bryan> sajkaj: looking forward to understanding schema
16:08:29 <Bryan> sajkaj: may be of interest to this group
16:09:02 <Bryan> PeterKorn: happy to meet next week
16:09:36 <Bryan> sajkaj: we will be next week
16:09:48 <sajkaj> zakim, next item
16:09:48 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Agenda Review & Administrative Items -- taken up [from sajkaj]
16:10:04 <sajkaj> zakim, close this item
16:10:04 <Zakim> agendum 1 closed
16:10:05 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:10:05 <Zakim> 2. TPAC Survival Guide [from sajkaj]
16:10:07 <sajkaj> zakim, next item
16:10:07 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- TPAC Survival Guide -- taken up [from sajkaj]
16:10:28 <Bryan> sajkaj: TPAC 3 things to know
16:10:46 <Bryan> sajkaj: sign up
16:11:08 <Bryan> sajkaj: little bit of process, log into W3C account
16:11:26 <Bryan> sajkaj: wait for email, use code
16:12:24 <Bryan> sajkaj: login and sign up for meeting
16:13:27 <Bryan> sajkaj: will incorporate zoom, will get 30 or 5 min before call
16:13:33 <JF> JF has joined #silver-conf
16:13:40 <JF> present+
16:13:54 <Bryan> sajkaj: be ready to get on IRC
16:14:59 <Bryan> sajkaj: keep in touch with people
16:15:24 <Bryan> sajkaj: expect some level of gotchas
16:15:29 <sajkaj> zakim, next item
16:15:29 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Media Continued https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/silver/wiki/Media.Next -- taken up [from sajkaj]
16:16:03 <Bryan> sajkaj: media continued - looking at comments
16:17:14 <Bryan> sajkaj: address considerations - no exemptions
16:17:18 <PeterKorn> q+
16:18:12 <Bryan> sajkaj: guidelines provide detail, can we provide a conformance options?
16:19:07 <Bryan> sajkaj: inform users when circumstances like legacy media
16:19:53 <PeterKorn> https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/#sign-language-prerecorded
16:20:14 <Bryan> PeterKorn: exemption discussion like ASL
16:20:37 <Bryan> is an AAA requirement
16:20:50 <sajkaj> q?
16:20:57 <sajkaj> ack PeterKorn
16:21:03 <sajkaj> q+
16:21:05 <Bryan> PeterKorn: real-world example like audio live
16:21:14 <Wilco_> q+
16:21:49 <Bryan> PeterKorn: radio broadcast is not accessible
16:22:11 <Bryan> PeterKorn: we let media content sit till it is worked out
16:22:35 <Bryan> PeterKorn: how should we try to address this in a new way?
16:22:55 <Bryan> sajkaj: WCAG 2.x isn't giving this to us
16:23:20 <Bryan> sajkaj: until we have guidelines this is hard
16:23:30 <sajkaj> q?
16:23:36 <sajkaj> ack saj
16:23:37 <sajkaj> ack wil
16:23:56 <Bryan> Wilco_: is the issue that we are taking things away?
16:24:02 <JF> Q+
16:24:27 <Bryan> Wilco_: we don't think of this as a serious problem
16:24:38 <Bryan> Wilco_: hard to get it accepted
16:24:48 <sajkaj> q?
16:24:51 <Bryan> sajkaj: may be on to something
16:24:56 <sajkaj> ack jf
16:25:06 <sajkaj> q+
16:25:28 <Bryan> JF: key selling for WCAG 3 is that you are good but not great
16:25:51 <shadi> q+
16:25:58 <Bryan> JF: if constrained we should point to something normative
16:26:21 <sajkaj> ack saj
16:26:30 <Bryan> sajkaj: we keep hearing back that people feel we are taking away
16:26:56 <sajkaj> q?
16:27:01 <sajkaj> ack sha
16:27:11 <Wilco_> q+
16:27:26 <Bryan> shadi: different issues might be weighted different
16:28:03 <sajkaj> q+
16:28:07 <Bryan> shadi: another exception might not come from WCAG
16:28:33 <Bryan> shadi: issue in some situation may be policy issue
16:28:45 <sajkaj> ack wil
16:28:54 <PeterKorn> q+
16:28:58 <Bryan> Wilco_: i think we are taking things away
16:29:50 <Bryan> Wilco_: wonder if we need to be pro-active in acknowledging that
16:30:19 <Bryan> sajkaj: add some practical things that are achievable
16:31:16 <Bryan> sajkaj: hair salon in use case example of where to leave to other process
16:31:35 <Bryan> sajkaj: ASL good example
16:32:04 <sajkaj> q?
16:32:05 <Bryan> sajkaj: maybe will see more
16:32:10 <sajkaj> ack saj
16:32:12 <sajkaj> ack pet
16:32:26 <Bryan> PeterKorn: resonate with Wilco
16:32:58 <Bryan> PeterKorn: absent conformance it's tough to bring people along
16:33:00 <sajkaj> q?
16:33:45 <Bryan> PeterKorn: not on a path to getting where we want to be
16:33:55 <sajkaj> q?
16:34:13 <Bryan> PeterKorn: that's informing me
16:34:22 <JF> +1 to Peter - we need to start being pragmatic to our ask
16:34:56 <Bryan> PeterKorn: do we refine now and be upfront?
16:35:24 <Bryan> PeterKorn: or do we let this sit and focus on something else?
16:35:56 <Bryan> sajkaj: get on AGWG agenda not practicable soon
16:36:33 <Bryan> sajkaj: conversation along these lines to get people to be forthcoming
16:36:37 <sajkaj> q?
16:37:06 <Bryan> PeterKorn: Sara suggested changes
16:37:28 <Bryan> PeterKorn: do 1:1 to see if we can address concerns
16:37:40 <Bryan> bring back not sooner than november
16:37:47 <Bryan> sajkaj: changes are small
16:37:58 <Bryan> PeterKorn: not bring forth unless happy
16:38:15 <Bryan> PeterKorn: that's important
16:38:25 <Bryan> sajkaj: leave on agenda for next week
16:38:33 <Bryan> PeterKorn: yes
16:38:51 <Bryan> sajkaj: will look at survey
16:39:11 <sajkaj> q?
16:39:15 <Bryan> sajkaj: is this reasonable
16:39:34 <sajkaj> zakim, next item
16:39:34 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Sampling & Reporting -- Initial Use Cases https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YgiOg3CZz-LAVxRT0CWUTWHzyVa3UrjqdU4NvoyUZ_8/ -- taken up [from sajkaj]
16:39:47 <Bryan> sajkaj: moving on to use cases
16:40:16 <Bryan> sajkaj: leadership asking for more on conformance
16:40:26 <Bryan> no timeline
16:40:32 <Bryan> sajkaj: no timeline
16:40:44 <sajkaj> q?
16:40:54 <Bryan> Wilco_: added item 7
16:41:13 <Bryan> PeterKorn: EU wanting to track content
16:41:21 <JF> Q+
16:41:41 <Bryan> PeterKorn: feels like consistently and monitoring
16:41:56 <Bryan> PeterKorn: important to companies doing testing
16:42:15 <Bryan> PeterKorn: judgement question
16:42:34 <Bryan> PeterKorn: acknowledge tensions
16:42:57 <sajkaj> ack jf
16:43:05 <Bryan> JF: part of much larger thing
16:43:31 <Bryan> JF: propose WCAG 3 include protocols and exceptions
16:43:47 <Bryan> JF: problem is reporting
16:44:13 <Bryan> JF: making declarations
16:44:28 <Bryan> JF: use standard document
16:44:38 <sajkaj> q?
16:44:45 <Bryan> JF: include scoping
16:44:49 <sajkaj> q+
16:45:08 <Bryan> JF: feels like simple solution
16:45:56 <Wilco_> https://raw.githack.com/w3c/apa/FPWD-Overview-test/saur/Overview.html
16:45:59 <Bryan> sajkaj: seem to be simple examples to look at
16:46:36 <Bryan> sajkaj: we have numbers
16:46:48 <Bryan> sajkaj: can be quantified
16:47:05 <Wilco_> q+
16:47:05 <Bryan> sajkaj: some are judgement calls
16:47:18 <sajkaj> ack saj
16:47:23 <Bryan> JF: protocols are to qualify
16:47:46 <Bryan> JF: can't measure but there are outcomes
16:48:04 <Bryan> JF: things to keep in mind
16:48:14 <Bryan> JF: can be adopted
16:48:38 <Bryan> JF: how to standardize?
16:48:50 <shadi> q+
16:48:52 <Bryan> JF: build out a list
16:49:01 <sajkaj> ack wil
16:49:19 <Bryan> Wilco_: should we explore use cases
16:49:30 <Bryan> PeterKorn: yes
16:49:32 <sajkaj> ack sha
16:50:12 <Bryan> shadi: more background on what we are doing
16:50:24 <sajkaj> rrsagent, make minuites
16:50:24 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minuites', sajkaj.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
16:50:31 <sajkaj> rrsagent, make minutes
16:50:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/14-silver-conf-minutes.html sajkaj
16:51:04 <Bryan> shadi: thinking should be more precise
16:51:20 <sajkaj> q?
16:51:36 <sajkaj> q?
16:51:54 <Bryan> shadi: can conform without being tested
16:52:24 <sajkaj> q?
16:53:11 <Bryan> PeterKorn: last time looked at high-level challenges, developed into use cases
16:53:20 <sajkaj> q+
16:53:59 <Bryan> PeterKorn: created collection, then did a deep dive to understand
16:54:07 <sajkaj> q?
16:54:24 <Bryan> PeterKorn: example travel reviews
16:54:56 <Bryan> PeterKorn: created a greater or lesser control
16:55:07 <Bryan> PeterKorn: led to proposals
16:55:17 <Bryan> PeterKorn: can we try this again
16:55:54 <Bryan> PeterKorn: turn scaling challenges to real world examples
16:56:05 <Bryan> PeterKorn:  help promote understanding
16:56:24 <Bryan> PeterKorn: current doc way to skeletal
16:56:24 <shadi> q+
16:57:08 <Bryan> sajkaj: in a year of work got one section into working draft
16:57:43 <Bryan> sajkaj: how do we organize conformance for WCAG 3?
16:58:17 <Bryan> sajkaj: have reminder we need to make practical for small companies
16:58:30 <Bryan> sajkaj: not expecting perfection
16:59:12 <sajkaj> rrsagent, make minutes
16:59:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/14-silver-conf-minutes.html sajkaj
16:59:13 <Bryan> PeterKorn: offline can do a bit more work on media
16:59:43 <Bryan> PeterKorn: sampling is way to tell with confidence to tell you where you are
17:00:08 <Bryan> PeterKorn: accept there will be problems at level expected
17:00:24 <Bryan> PeterKorn: won't solve all problems
17:00:55 <Bryan> PeterKorn: sampling tells us we don't have major problems
17:01:13 <Bryan> sajkaj: will still have to revisit
17:01:14 <sajkaj> rrsagent, make minutes
17:01:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/14-silver-conf-minutes.html sajkaj
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