IRC log of silver-conf on 2021-10-14

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:41:04 [RRSAgent]
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logging to
15:41:14 [sajkaj]
Meeting: Silver Conformance Options Subgroup
15:41:22 [sajkaj]
Date: 14 Oct 2021
15:41:25 [sajkaj]
Chair: sajkaj
15:41:33 [sajkaj]
rrsagent, make log public
15:48:56 [sajkaj]
15:49:00 [sajkaj]
Agenda+ Agenda Review & Administrative Items
15:49:00 [sajkaj]
agenda+ TPAC Survival Guide
15:49:00 [sajkaj]
agenda+ Media Continued
15:49:03 [sajkaj]
agenda+ Sampling & Reporting -- Initial Use Cases
15:49:06 [sajkaj]
agenda+ Other Business
15:49:09 [sajkaj]
agenda+ Be Done
15:49:13 [sajkaj]
15:50:10 [sajkaj]
regrets: Azlan_Cuttilan, Bruce_Bailey
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16:02:53 [Bryan]
scribe: bryan
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16:04:55 [Bryan]
sajkaj: not meeting coming week
16:05:30 [Bryan]
Wilco_: AWAG continuing to meet, not Silver
16:06:13 [Bryan]
Wilco_: AGWG continuing to meet
16:07:05 [Bryan]
sajkaj: note is publishing by working group
16:07:51 [Bryan]
sajkaj: looking forward to understanding schema
16:08:29 [Bryan]
sajkaj: may be of interest to this group
16:09:02 [Bryan]
PeterKorn: happy to meet next week
16:09:36 [Bryan]
sajkaj: we will be next week
16:09:48 [sajkaj]
zakim, next item
16:09:48 [Zakim]
agendum 1 -- Agenda Review & Administrative Items -- taken up [from sajkaj]
16:10:04 [sajkaj]
zakim, close this item
16:10:04 [Zakim]
agendum 1 closed
16:10:05 [Zakim]
I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:10:05 [Zakim]
2. TPAC Survival Guide [from sajkaj]
16:10:07 [sajkaj]
zakim, next item
16:10:07 [Zakim]
agendum 2 -- TPAC Survival Guide -- taken up [from sajkaj]
16:10:28 [Bryan]
sajkaj: TPAC 3 things to know
16:10:46 [Bryan]
sajkaj: sign up
16:11:08 [Bryan]
sajkaj: little bit of process, log into W3C account
16:11:26 [Bryan]
sajkaj: wait for email, use code
16:12:24 [Bryan]
sajkaj: login and sign up for meeting
16:13:27 [Bryan]
sajkaj: will incorporate zoom, will get 30 or 5 min before call
16:13:33 [JF]
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16:13:40 [JF]
16:13:54 [Bryan]
sajkaj: be ready to get on IRC
16:14:59 [Bryan]
sajkaj: keep in touch with people
16:15:24 [Bryan]
sajkaj: expect some level of gotchas
16:15:29 [sajkaj]
zakim, next item
16:15:29 [Zakim]
agendum 3 -- Media Continued -- taken up [from sajkaj]
16:16:03 [Bryan]
sajkaj: media continued - looking at comments
16:17:14 [Bryan]
sajkaj: address considerations - no exemptions
16:17:18 [PeterKorn]
16:18:12 [Bryan]
sajkaj: guidelines provide detail, can we provide a conformance options?
16:19:07 [Bryan]
sajkaj: inform users when circumstances like legacy media
16:19:53 [PeterKorn]
16:20:14 [Bryan]
PeterKorn: exemption discussion like ASL
16:20:37 [Bryan]
is an AAA requirement
16:20:50 [sajkaj]
16:20:57 [sajkaj]
ack PeterKorn
16:21:03 [sajkaj]
16:21:05 [Bryan]
PeterKorn: real-world example like audio live
16:21:14 [Wilco_]
16:21:49 [Bryan]
PeterKorn: radio broadcast is not accessible
16:22:11 [Bryan]
PeterKorn: we let media content sit till it is worked out
16:22:35 [Bryan]
PeterKorn: how should we try to address this in a new way?
16:22:55 [Bryan]
sajkaj: WCAG 2.x isn't giving this to us
16:23:20 [Bryan]
sajkaj: until we have guidelines this is hard
16:23:30 [sajkaj]
16:23:36 [sajkaj]
ack saj
16:23:37 [sajkaj]
ack wil
16:23:56 [Bryan]
Wilco_: is the issue that we are taking things away?
16:24:02 [JF]
16:24:27 [Bryan]
Wilco_: we don't think of this as a serious problem
16:24:38 [Bryan]
Wilco_: hard to get it accepted
16:24:48 [sajkaj]
16:24:51 [Bryan]
sajkaj: may be on to something
16:24:56 [sajkaj]
ack jf
16:25:06 [sajkaj]
16:25:28 [Bryan]
JF: key selling for WCAG 3 is that you are good but not great
16:25:51 [shadi]
16:25:58 [Bryan]
JF: if constrained we should point to something normative
16:26:21 [sajkaj]
ack saj
16:26:30 [Bryan]
sajkaj: we keep hearing back that people feel we are taking away
16:26:56 [sajkaj]
16:27:01 [sajkaj]
ack sha
16:27:11 [Wilco_]
16:27:26 [Bryan]
shadi: different issues might be weighted different
16:28:03 [sajkaj]
16:28:07 [Bryan]
shadi: another exception might not come from WCAG
16:28:33 [Bryan]
shadi: issue in some situation may be policy issue
16:28:45 [sajkaj]
ack wil
16:28:54 [PeterKorn]
16:28:58 [Bryan]
Wilco_: i think we are taking things away
16:29:50 [Bryan]
Wilco_: wonder if we need to be pro-active in acknowledging that
16:30:19 [Bryan]
sajkaj: add some practical things that are achievable
16:31:16 [Bryan]
sajkaj: hair salon in use case example of where to leave to other process
16:31:35 [Bryan]
sajkaj: ASL good example
16:32:04 [sajkaj]
16:32:05 [Bryan]
sajkaj: maybe will see more
16:32:10 [sajkaj]
ack saj
16:32:12 [sajkaj]
ack pet
16:32:26 [Bryan]
PeterKorn: resonate with Wilco
16:32:58 [Bryan]
PeterKorn: absent conformance it's tough to bring people along
16:33:00 [sajkaj]
16:33:45 [Bryan]
PeterKorn: not on a path to getting where we want to be
16:33:55 [sajkaj]
16:34:13 [Bryan]
PeterKorn: that's informing me
16:34:22 [JF]
+1 to Peter - we need to start being pragmatic to our ask
16:34:56 [Bryan]
PeterKorn: do we refine now and be upfront?
16:35:24 [Bryan]
PeterKorn: or do we let this sit and focus on something else?
16:35:56 [Bryan]
sajkaj: get on AGWG agenda not practicable soon
16:36:33 [Bryan]
sajkaj: conversation along these lines to get people to be forthcoming
16:36:37 [sajkaj]
16:37:06 [Bryan]
PeterKorn: Sara suggested changes
16:37:28 [Bryan]
PeterKorn: do 1:1 to see if we can address concerns
16:37:40 [Bryan]
bring back not sooner than november
16:37:47 [Bryan]
sajkaj: changes are small
16:37:58 [Bryan]
PeterKorn: not bring forth unless happy
16:38:15 [Bryan]
PeterKorn: that's important
16:38:25 [Bryan]
sajkaj: leave on agenda for next week
16:38:33 [Bryan]
PeterKorn: yes
16:38:51 [Bryan]
sajkaj: will look at survey
16:39:11 [sajkaj]
16:39:15 [Bryan]
sajkaj: is this reasonable
16:39:34 [sajkaj]
zakim, next item
16:39:34 [Zakim]
agendum 4 -- Sampling & Reporting -- Initial Use Cases -- taken up [from sajkaj]
16:39:47 [Bryan]
sajkaj: moving on to use cases
16:40:16 [Bryan]
sajkaj: leadership asking for more on conformance
16:40:26 [Bryan]
no timeline
16:40:32 [Bryan]
sajkaj: no timeline
16:40:44 [sajkaj]
16:40:54 [Bryan]
Wilco_: added item 7
16:41:13 [Bryan]
PeterKorn: EU wanting to track content
16:41:21 [JF]
16:41:41 [Bryan]
PeterKorn: feels like consistently and monitoring
16:41:56 [Bryan]
PeterKorn: important to companies doing testing
16:42:15 [Bryan]
PeterKorn: judgement question
16:42:34 [Bryan]
PeterKorn: acknowledge tensions
16:42:57 [sajkaj]
ack jf
16:43:05 [Bryan]
JF: part of much larger thing
16:43:31 [Bryan]
JF: propose WCAG 3 include protocols and exceptions
16:43:47 [Bryan]
JF: problem is reporting
16:44:13 [Bryan]
JF: making declarations
16:44:28 [Bryan]
JF: use standard document
16:44:38 [sajkaj]
16:44:45 [Bryan]
JF: include scoping
16:44:49 [sajkaj]
16:45:08 [Bryan]
JF: feels like simple solution
16:45:56 [Wilco_]
16:45:59 [Bryan]
sajkaj: seem to be simple examples to look at
16:46:36 [Bryan]
sajkaj: we have numbers
16:46:48 [Bryan]
sajkaj: can be quantified
16:47:05 [Wilco_]
16:47:05 [Bryan]
sajkaj: some are judgement calls
16:47:18 [sajkaj]
ack saj
16:47:23 [Bryan]
JF: protocols are to qualify
16:47:46 [Bryan]
JF: can't measure but there are outcomes
16:48:04 [Bryan]
JF: things to keep in mind
16:48:14 [Bryan]
JF: can be adopted
16:48:38 [Bryan]
JF: how to standardize?
16:48:50 [shadi]
16:48:52 [Bryan]
JF: build out a list
16:49:01 [sajkaj]
ack wil
16:49:19 [Bryan]
Wilco_: should we explore use cases
16:49:30 [Bryan]
PeterKorn: yes
16:49:32 [sajkaj]
ack sha
16:50:12 [Bryan]
shadi: more background on what we are doing
16:50:24 [sajkaj]
rrsagent, make minuites
16:50:24 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minuites', sajkaj. Try /msg RRSAgent help
16:50:31 [sajkaj]
rrsagent, make minutes
16:50:31 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate sajkaj
16:51:04 [Bryan]
shadi: thinking should be more precise
16:51:20 [sajkaj]
16:51:36 [sajkaj]
16:51:54 [Bryan]
shadi: can conform without being tested
16:52:24 [sajkaj]
16:53:11 [Bryan]
PeterKorn: last time looked at high-level challenges, developed into use cases
16:53:20 [sajkaj]
16:53:59 [Bryan]
PeterKorn: created collection, then did a deep dive to understand
16:54:07 [sajkaj]
16:54:24 [Bryan]
PeterKorn: example travel reviews
16:54:56 [Bryan]
PeterKorn: created a greater or lesser control
16:55:07 [Bryan]
PeterKorn: led to proposals
16:55:17 [Bryan]
PeterKorn: can we try this again
16:55:54 [Bryan]
PeterKorn: turn scaling challenges to real world examples
16:56:05 [Bryan]
PeterKorn: help promote understanding
16:56:24 [Bryan]
PeterKorn: current doc way to skeletal
16:56:24 [shadi]
16:57:08 [Bryan]
sajkaj: in a year of work got one section into working draft
16:57:43 [Bryan]
sajkaj: how do we organize conformance for WCAG 3?
16:58:17 [Bryan]
sajkaj: have reminder we need to make practical for small companies
16:58:30 [Bryan]
sajkaj: not expecting perfection
16:59:12 [sajkaj]
rrsagent, make minutes
16:59:12 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate sajkaj
16:59:13 [Bryan]
PeterKorn: offline can do a bit more work on media
16:59:43 [Bryan]
PeterKorn: sampling is way to tell with confidence to tell you where you are
17:00:08 [Bryan]
PeterKorn: accept there will be problems at level expected
17:00:24 [Bryan]
PeterKorn: won't solve all problems
17:00:55 [Bryan]
PeterKorn: sampling tells us we don't have major problems
17:01:13 [Bryan]
sajkaj: will still have to revisit
17:01:14 [sajkaj]
rrsagent, make minutes
17:01:14 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate sajkaj
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