IRC log of silver-conf on 2021-09-30

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:40:51 [RRSAgent]
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15:40:51 [RRSAgent]
logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/09/30-silver-conf-irc
15:41:01 [sajkaj]
Meeting: Silver Conformance Options Subgroup
15:41:17 [sajkaj]
Date: 30 Sep 2020
15:41:25 [sajkaj]
Chair: sajkaj
15:41:36 [sajkaj]
Regrets: Bryan_Trogdon, Bruce_Bailey
15:41:42 [sajkaj]
rrsagent, make log public
15:43:01 [sajkaj]
Agenda+ Agenda Review & Administrative Items
15:43:01 [sajkaj]
agenda+ Media Considerations Followup https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/silver/wiki/Media_Considerations
15:43:04 [sajkaj]
agenda+ Sampling & Reporting -- Initial Use Cases https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YgiOg3CZz-LAVxRT0CWUTWHzyVa3UrjqdU4NvoyUZ_8/
15:43:07 [sajkaj]
agenda+ Other Business
15:43:09 [sajkaj]
agenda+ Be Done
15:43:14 [sajkaj]
agenda?
15:44:40 [sajkaj]
rrsagent, make minutes
15:44:40 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/09/30-silver-conf-minutes.html sajkaj
15:49:01 [sajkaj]
present+
15:49:06 [sajkaj]
zakim, who's here?
15:49:06 [Zakim]
Present: sajkaj
15:49:08 [Zakim]
On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, sajkaj, MichaelC, Rachael, trackbot
16:00:32 [ToddLibby]
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16:02:17 [Azlan]
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16:02:35 [PeterKorn]
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16:02:39 [Azlan]
present+
16:02:43 [ToddLibby]
present+
16:02:49 [PeterKorn]
present+
16:03:23 [Azlan]
scribe:Azlan
16:03:34 [Azlan]
scribe: Azlan
16:06:07 [Azlan]
zakim, take up item 1
16:06:07 [Zakim]
agendum 1 -- Agenda Review & Administrative Items -- taken up [from sajkaj]
16:07:06 [WIlco]
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16:07:39 [Wilco_]
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16:07:43 [Wilco_]
present+
16:07:55 [Azlan]
sajkaj: Announcements - we have media considerations after some edits following previous meetings
16:09:55 [Azlan]
zakim, next item
16:09:55 [Zakim]
agendum 2 -- Media Considerations Followup https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/silver/wiki/Media_Considerations -- taken up [from sajkaj]
16:11:17 [Azlan]
sajkaj: have made a human readable diff. We have reverted the second paragraph of media considerations.
16:11:59 [Azlan]
* reword not revert
16:12:06 [Azlan]
"Each of these categories of media content may have methods for making them accessible—or not. There may be methods for some classes of persons with disabilities, but not for others. Whether or not accessibility methods exist, WCAG requires web publishers to apply all available context appropriate methods at the time of digitization, and then again upon any major refresh of the content. However, there are still additional situations that req[CUT]
16:12:36 [Azlan]
sajkaj: we start general and get more specific as we progress
16:14:02 [Azlan]
PeterKorn: reads the changes to break into two sentences: "An important part of WCAG Conformance are the specific requirements that are associated with individual WCAG 3 guidelines and outcomes. As of this publication, none of these have yet been created. Some guidelines will be explicitly identified as media related guidelines. Other guidelines may include media related outcomes, and those will be so identified."
16:14:02 [PeterKorn]
Old: "An important part of WCAG Conformance are the specific requirements that are associated with individual WCAG 3 guidelines and outcomes, which have not been created."
16:14:13 [Azlan]
sajkaj: we also changed the verb tenses
16:14:15 [PeterKorn]
New: "An important part of WCAG Conformance are the specific requirements that are associated with individual WCAG 3 guidelines and outcomes. As of this publication, none of these have yet been created. "
16:15:18 [Azlan]
sajkaj: Throughout the document we had referred to "techniques" (a WCAG 2.x term) this is now chanages to "methods" or for looser use "mechanisms"
16:16:50 [Azlan]
sajkaj: Added a paragraph to the second editors note. Now includes: "We seek comment on what programmatically exposable metadata types and values are needed to express a full range of possible accessibility-related features in media. We also seek comment on how best to expose which specific ones are available to users within any particular media publication." This was in response to our discussion last Thursday.
16:18:13 [PeterKorn]
Old penultimate Editors Note 2nd sentence: "We are looking for suggestions on if and how third-party tester should be able to identify and validate when media has limited rights."
16:18:19 [PeterKorn]
New: We seek comment on whether and how a third-party tester should be able to identify and validate when media has limited rights."
16:18:57 [Azlan]
sajkaj: Formalised the note under "Media with Limited Rights for Publishers"
16:19:33 [Azlan]
In the final Editors not added the missing "or"
16:20:11 [Azlan]
Wilco_: requests to break up the final sentence.
16:24:56 [JF]
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16:25:01 [JF]
Present+
16:26:47 [Rachael]
present+
16:28:32 [PeterKorn]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/silver/wiki/Media_Considerations#User_Generated_Media
16:29:30 [JF]
Q+
16:29:48 [sajkaj]
ack jf
16:30:44 [Azlan]
Moves back to "Media conformance"
16:30:44 [PeterKorn]
We seek comment on what programmatically exposable metadata types and values are needed to express a full range of possible accessibility-related features in media. We also seek comment on how best to expose which specific ones are available to users within any particular media publication.
16:31:56 [PeterKorn]
q+
16:31:56 [Azlan]
JF: Agree this belongs here. Concern is how the metadata will be attached to the asset.
16:32:47 [Azlan]
sajkaj: this is on APA's agenda and is being discussed with others. It has not been forgotten
16:33:08 [Azlan]
it is beyond accessibility's remit to refine.
16:33:17 [Wilco_]
+1
16:33:50 [ToddLibby]
+1
16:34:48 [sajkaj]
q?
16:34:53 [sajkaj]
ack pet
16:34:56 [JF]
Q+
16:35:43 [sajkaj]
q?
16:35:43 [Azlan]
PeterKorn: believe this has to be done by media type not a global mechanism and don't believe we can have a single general statement.
16:35:46 [sajkaj]
ack jf
16:36:16 [sajkaj]
q?
16:36:43 [Azlan]
JF: agree with PeterKorn. We need to state we have questions and we don't know rather than avoid the discussion.
16:36:49 [sajkaj]
q?
16:37:55 [Azlan]
JF: suggest adding a sentence at the same location. Happy to draft something.
16:37:57 [Rachael]
q+
16:38:20 [sajkaj]
q?
16:38:44 [Azlan]
Rachael: Confirms we are on schedule for Tuesday
16:38:47 [Azlan]
ack Rachael
16:39:47 [JF]
We seek comment on a number of outstanding issues related to metadata, including: * what programmatically exposable metadata types and values are needed to express a full range of possible accessibility-related features in media * how best to expose which specific ones are available to users within any particular media publication * What mechanism or mechanisms can be used to associate metadata to media assets
16:40:47 [sajkaj]
q?
16:40:47 [PeterKorn]
We expect the metadata types, values, and disclosure mechanisms will vary with the media, and will be described within the guidelines, outcomes, and mechanisms addressing media.
16:41:21 [Azlan]
PeterKorn: suggests adding the above sentence as an alternative
16:41:49 [sajkaj]
q?
16:41:57 [JF]
WFM
16:42:16 [Azlan]
PeterKorn: added that sentence at the top of the note
16:42:45 [JF]
Q+ for a minor wordsmithing
16:42:54 [sajkaj]
q?
16:43:21 [sajkaj]
ack jf
16:43:21 [Zakim]
JF, you wanted to discuss a minor wordsmithing
16:43:22 [JF]
ack me
16:44:29 [Azlan]
sajkaj: what question do we want the WBS to ask? Propose is this ready to go into the next public working draft?
16:44:36 [Rachael]
q+
16:44:39 [sajkaj]
q?
16:44:45 [sajkaj]
ack ra
16:45:46 [sajkaj]
q?
16:46:04 [Azlan]
zakim, next item
16:46:04 [Zakim]
agendum 3 -- Sampling & Reporting -- Initial Use Cases https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YgiOg3CZz-LAVxRT0CWUTWHzyVa3UrjqdU4NvoyUZ_8/ -- taken up [from sajkaj]
16:48:14 [sajkaj]
q?
16:49:20 [Azlan]
PeterKorn: explains the document linked above and the three initial scaling challenge use cases detailed.
16:51:18 [Azlan]
Did not get round to creating fictitious examples of the use cases yet
16:51:31 [sajkaj]
q?
16:52:52 [sajkaj]
q?
16:52:53 [Azlan]
Wilco_: The base scenario - any site more than 20 pages is probably too big to test manually.
16:53:06 [JF]
Q+
16:53:16 [Azlan]
20 = arbitrary number
16:54:24 [Azlan]
sajkaj: you need an actual number to put into a specification. Picking a number is difficult to have agreed
16:54:42 [sajkaj]
q?
16:54:54 [sajkaj]
ack jf
16:55:38 [Wilco_]
q+
16:55:50 [Azlan]
JF: The bigger problem is how to scope an evaluation? We would need a protocol for that to help people understand how to scope large sites.
16:56:04 [PeterKorn]
"Large sites that may be static, but are still too large to have humans exhaustively evaluate in a reasonable amount of time"
16:56:10 [sajkaj]
ack wil
16:56:50 [sajkaj]
q+
16:56:56 [Azlan]
Wilco_: Disagrees is definition of a scope outside of what we worry about
16:57:21 [Azlan]
PeterKorn: has added a use case to cover the concern
16:57:44 [Azlan]
"Large sites that may be static, but are still too large to have humans exhaustively evaluate in a reasonable amount of time"
16:58:15 [Azlan]
sajkaj: we will develop a full range of use cases and then have to test and work out what an acceptable variation rate is
16:58:20 [sajkaj]
ack saj
16:58:28 [sajkaj]
q?
16:58:42 [Azlan]
PeterKorn: suggest we stick to what we have done before - not trying to solve too early
16:59:20 [Azlan]
Wilco_: question where do sampling and reporting overlap and why they are not two separate topics
16:59:42 [sajkaj]
q?
16:59:58 [Azlan]
PeterKorn: the challenges arising in both come from scaling so let's begin with scaling use cases
17:00:20 [Azlan]
Wilco_: what if you have no budget and want to do accessibility?
17:00:38 [Azlan]
sajkaj: I think you gave a use case for that
17:01:48 [Azlan]
PeterKorn: Seems to be a resource challenge rather than scaling challenge
17:02:28 [Azlan]
sajkaj: Lets bring the hair salon use case into the doc
17:02:59 [Azlan]
zakim, bye
17:02:59 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees have been sajkaj, Azlan, ToddLibby, PeterKorn, Wilco_, JF, Rachael
17:02:59 [Zakim]
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17:03:20 [Azlan]
rrsagent, make minutes
17:03:20 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/09/30-silver-conf-minutes.html Azlan
17:03:21 [ToddLibby]
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