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13:35:01 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
13:35:02 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), wendyreid
13:35:18 <wendyreid> meeting: Virtual Locators TF Telco September 17, 2021
13:35:35 <wendyreid> date: 09-17-2021
13:35:38 <wendyreid> chair: wendyreid
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14:02:07 <pilarw2000> present+
14:02:13 <tzviya> present+
14:02:20 <wendyreid> present+
14:02:47 <ivan> present+
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14:03:12 <George> present+
14:03:14 <ivan> present+ laurent
14:03:14 <ivan> present+ george
14:03:14 <ivan> present+ pilar
14:03:59 <ivan> present+ dlazin
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14:06:06 <ivan> scribe+ dlazin
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14:07:35 <wendyreid> dlazin: Why didn't this taskforce come around sooner?
14:07:52 <dlazin> dlazin: Why has this problem not been solved in 20 years?
14:08:13 <dlazin> tzviya: We've been trying to solve this problem for years, and the indexing specification tried to solve it.
14:08:50 <dlazin> tzviya: This came to be from figuring out which parts of the satellite specifications could be brought into the master spec.
14:09:06 <dlazin> tzviya: Indexes has a lot of useful information but there's nothing normative in the spec.
14:09:19 <ivan> q+
14:09:34 <dlazin> wendyreid: We did a survey and asked people what their interests were and page-numbering came up a lot.
14:09:34 <wendyreid> ack ivan
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14:09:46 <dlazin> wendyreid: Also we have two open issues about page numbers.
14:10:11 <dlazin> ivan: The whole issue about annotating webpages or pages in a book has been around for 10 or 15 years and browsers never took it seriously.
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14:11:11 <dlazin> ivan: What the task force is doing is saying "the ideal thing is not implemented. What is the suboptimal thing that we can do?"
14:11:36 <dlazin> ivan: (earlier) There is a web annotations recommendation that could solve this problem but it is not implemented in browsers.
14:11:43 <tzviya> https://www.w3.org/TR/annotation-model/
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14:12:01 <laurent_> laurent+
14:12:18 <laurent_> present+ laurent
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14:13:49 <dlazin> ivan: Browsers still require that there be IDs in the document for anchors.
14:14:19 <dlazin> George: The problem gets worse with screen readers, because they read from a virtual buffer, not the real HTML.
14:14:57 <tzviya> q+
14:15:06 <wendyreid> ack tzviya
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14:15:46 <dlazin> dlazin: There was also an issue about textbook pages that created this task force ... but I guess it just pushed us over the edge.
14:16:11 <dlazin> Here's what Chrome is doing now: https://www.macrumors.com/how-to/link-to-highlighted-text-webpage-chrome/
14:17:43 <dlazin> wendyreid: I spoke to my team of UX designers and one of the problems we've been running into is "what do automatic page numbers look like?"
14:17:44 <tzviya> regrets+ Brady
14:19:04 <dlazin> wendyreid: I took screenshots from various applications to see how they handle page numbers ... and everyone does it differently. So we have a long way to go.
14:19:35 <wendyreid> https://docs.google.com/document/d/11GypOjE9xOTaINATl5bxVIA3Mc9jzNBGCr6GT_KNaQ4/edit#heading=h.gbsmtjlkuon
14:19:39 <dlazin> wendyreid: My team got really into it, but I'm still working on it. Might have a presentation for you next time.
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14:19:52 <dlazin> wendyreid: So let's continue to write the note.
14:20:08 <ivan> Topic: Continue work on the Note
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14:23:31 <dlazin> dlazin: Arbitrarily, let's fill out the Format and Persistence section.
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14:27:42 <wendyreid> [editing the document]
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14:35:11 <tzviya> q+
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14:37:18 <dlazin> dlazin: (See changes in Google Doc to understand discussion.)
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14:39:23 <wendyreid> ack tzviya
14:57:14 <wendyreid> [notes from Readium discussions on this topic]
14:57:19 <wendyreid> https://github.com/readium/architecture/issues/123
14:57:19 <wendyreid> https://github.com/readium/r2-streamer-swift/pull/209#issuecomment-859346247
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15:01:24 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:01:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/09/17-epub-locators-minutes.html ivan
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