13:42:44 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #i18n
13:42:44 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/09/16-i18n-irc
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13:42:59 <addison> trackbot, prepare teleconference
13:43:02 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:43:05 <trackbot> Meeting: Internationalization Working Group Teleconference
13:43:05 <trackbot> Date: 16 September 2021
13:43:09 <agendabot> agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2021Sep/0017.html
13:43:09 <agendabot> clear agenda
13:43:09 <agendabot> agenda+ Agenda Review
13:43:09 <agendabot> agenda+ Action Items
13:43:12 <agendabot> agenda+ Info Share
13:43:14 <agendabot> agenda+ RADAR Review
13:43:16 <agendabot> agenda+ TPAC planning
13:43:18 <agendabot> agenda+ Personalization #144 discussion
13:43:21 <agendabot> agenda+ webAuthn language/direction meta; related spec comments
13:43:24 <agendabot> agenda+ "Awaiting Comment Resolution" reviews
13:43:26 <agendabot> agenda+ AOB?
13:43:57 <addison> agenda+ documents from JL-TF
13:44:17 <addison> Chair: Addison Phillips
13:44:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/09/16-i18n-minutes.html addison
13:51:19 <addison> regrets+ Richard
13:51:32 <addison> regrets+ JcK
13:52:16 <xfq> xfq has joined #i18n
13:54:42 <FatimaBana> FatimaBana has joined #i18n
13:58:26 <fsasaki> fsasaki has joined #i18n
14:01:43 <addison> present+ Addison, Felix, Fuqiao, Atsushi, Fatima
14:06:30 <xfq> scribe: xfq
14:06:40 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 1
14:06:41 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Agenda Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:06:43 <addison> agenda?
14:07:16 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 2
14:07:16 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Action Items -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:07:24 <addison> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open
14:09:16 <addison> action-1067?
14:09:16 <trackbot> action-1067 -- Addison Phillips to Follow up on previous action related to language tag registry online -- due 2021-09-02 -- OPEN
14:09:16 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1067
14:09:35 <xfq> addison: talked to Mark Davis about Unicode
14:10:33 <xfq> ... didn't look back through our notes to see if we discussed it again
14:11:03 <xfq> ... should I take an action to ping Unicode more officially?
14:11:18 <addison> close action-1067
14:11:18 <trackbot> Closed action-1067.
14:11:40 <addison> action: addison: ping Unicode about establishing a langtag online subtag reference
14:11:41 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1080 - Ping unicode about establishing a langtag online subtag reference [on Addison Phillips - due 2021-09-23].
14:12:01 <addison> action-1073?
14:12:01 <trackbot> action-1073 -- Atsushi Shimono to Coordinate citpc and w3c publication of uax50 change request -- due 2021-09-09 -- OPEN
14:12:01 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1073
14:12:29 <xfq> atsushi: we prepared draft uax50 change request
14:12:35 <xfq> ... in the agenda today
14:12:50 <xfq> ... would like to ask r12a to review
14:13:01 <addison> action-1077?
14:13:01 <trackbot> action-1077 -- Addison Phillips to Ping ian about joint meeting during tpac in re: secure payment confirmation -- due 2021-09-16 -- OPEN
14:13:01 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1077
14:13:27 <addison> action-1078?
14:13:27 <trackbot> action-1078 -- Addison Phillips to Review payment-request issues -- due 2021-09-16 -- OPEN
14:13:27 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1078
14:13:44 <addison> action-1079?
14:13:44 <trackbot> action-1079 -- Addison Phillips to Prepare comment for web auth until next week -- due 2021-09-16 -- OPEN
14:13:44 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1079
14:14:20 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 3
14:14:20 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Info Share -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:14:46 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 4
14:14:46 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- RADAR Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:14:53 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1
14:15:34 <addison> agenda?
14:16:00 <xfq> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/issues/153
14:16:14 <xfq> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1390
14:16:43 <addison> xfq: css multicolumn going to CR, one open issue, richard seems satisfied
14:17:25 <addison> ... they added an example
14:17:27 <addison> LGTM
14:17:36 <atsushi> +1
14:17:36 <xfq> https://drafts.csswg.org/css-multicol/#example-1ed00d6a
14:17:38 <addison> xfq: it's editorial
14:18:23 <xfq> atsushi: WebXR will transition to CR shortly
14:18:31 <xfq> ... should be no i18n issues
14:18:37 <xfq> ... just a heads-up
14:19:19 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 10
14:19:19 <Zakim> agendum 10 -- documents from JL-TF -- taken up [from addison]
14:19:54 <addison> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2021Sep/0019.html
14:20:07 <xfq> https://github.com/Japan-Daisy-Consortium/documents/wiki/Text-to-Speech-of-Electronic-Documents-Containing-Ruby:-User-Requirements
14:20:45 <xfq> [atsushi summarizes the three issues in the email]
14:21:34 <xfq> atsushi: working on new ToC for JLReq 3rd Edition
14:21:42 <xfq> ... will come back two weeks later
14:22:27 <xfq> addison: request for a repo about a11y for ruby?
14:22:46 <xfq> atsushi: a11y-ruby or something
14:22:59 <xfq> ... comments welcome
14:24:11 <xfq> ... for the letter to Unicode, I asked for review last week
14:24:30 <atsushi> doc: https://github.com/w3c/jlreq/tree/gh-pages/docs/uax-with-aj1
14:24:30 <atsushi> PR: https://github.com/w3c/jlreq/pull/305/files
14:25:13 <xfq> atsushi: Kida-san wanted to get a proofreading from the language point of view
14:25:46 <xfq> addison: would you like r12a or me to proofread it?
14:26:30 <xfq> atsushi: r12a proofread the first and second editions
14:26:44 <addison> action: r12a: proofread the uax50 letter from citpc
14:26:44 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1081 - Proofread the uax50 letter from citpc [on Richard Ishida - due 2021-09-23].
14:27:14 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 6
14:27:14 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- Personalization #144 discussion -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:27:39 <addison> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2021Sep/0016.html
14:27:48 <xfq> addison: r12a and I visited the APA Personalization TF
14:27:48 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/issues/144
14:28:12 <xfq> ... it's a long conversation
14:28:33 <xfq> ... they replaced words and phrases with symbols such as Bliss symbolics
14:28:42 <xfq> ... may not be replace, but augment
14:28:57 <xfq> ... we were trying to convey to them the need for direction
14:29:08 <xfq> ... different languages have different grammar
14:29:34 <xfq> ... you can't just replace word with picture, replace word with picture
14:29:51 <xfq> ... they have some working systems for this
14:30:04 <xfq> ... they agreed to provide more examples
14:30:09 <xfq> ... non-trivial examples
14:30:17 <xfq> ... cup of tea
14:31:30 <xfq> xfq: similarity to ruby
14:32:15 <xfq> s/similarity to ruby/addison was struck by the similarity to ruby/
14:32:41 <xfq> xfq: they can look into ruby styling/placement
14:33:18 <David> David has joined #I18n
14:34:17 <xfq> atsushi: I haven't seen this kind of symbols before reading this spec
14:34:26 <xfq> addison: it's not just pictures
14:34:30 <xfq> ... there's text too
14:35:12 <xfq> atsushi: If there are only pictures without text, don’t know how users use it
14:35:34 <xfq> addison: they're borrowing bliss symbolics as placeholders
14:35:50 <xfq> ... they're not actually necessarily using that
14:35:57 <xfq> ... they're just borrowing the symbols
14:36:27 <xfq> ... it's like sign language
14:36:40 <xfq> ... each community has their own
14:36:59 <xfq> ... enables people to use symbols in their systems
14:38:01 <xfq> present+ David
14:38:37 <xfq> addison: we're waiting on them to come back with some more examples to see if there's more than we can comment
14:39:06 <xfq> ... if people annotate their documents with span that's fine
14:39:25 <xfq> ... on the other hand like the classic reorder thing
14:39:39 <xfq> ... for languages other than English the semantic may be different
14:39:48 <xfq> ... word order may be different
14:40:32 <xfq> ... certainly direction matters
14:41:24 <addison> action: addison: establish tpac agenda page and put our various meetings with other groups there also
14:41:25 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1082 - Establish tpac agenda page and put our various meetings with other groups there also [on Addison Phillips - due 2021-09-23].
14:41:46 <xfq> ... i'll set up the tpac agenda page
14:41:54 <xfq> addison: we have two confirmed meetings
14:42:31 <xfq> ... you may recall that there were several specs that we reviewed
14:42:35 <xfq> ... payment request
14:42:40 <xfq> ... they want to go to CR
14:42:46 <xfq> ... we have open issues against them
14:43:02 <xfq> ... i went through and reviewed those and closed all the ones i could
14:43:13 <xfq> ... we still have some open
14:43:30 <xfq> ... they didn't provide string metadata
14:43:38 <xfq> ... they added some notes
14:44:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/09/16-i18n-minutes.html xfq
14:44:26 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/payment-request/issues/948
14:45:25 <xfq> addison: they will address the localization in a future version of the spec
14:46:13 <xfq> ... if we formally object to this, then we will be in an uncomfortable position
14:47:06 <xfq> ... I filed a similar issue against the SPC spec
14:47:19 <xfq> ... solving this in Web IDL needs time
14:47:29 <xfq> ... what do we do with this in the meantime?
14:49:42 <xfq> ... I could say we would really like you fix this, but we won't formally object
14:50:22 <xfq> ... maybe the question i should ask is "how you're going to retrofit this"
14:50:50 <xfq> David: if it's a string with a structure we can add metadata
14:51:13 <xfq> ... if it's a bare string like Java there's no localized string object
14:52:04 <xfq> addison: if the string appears in the structure is the only natural language string then they can add language and direction metadata
14:52:24 <xfq> ... presumably you could park lang and dir after the string
14:53:45 <xfq> ... I'll reply
14:54:14 <addison> agenda?
14:54:23 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 9
14:54:23 <Zakim> agendum 9 -- AOB? -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:55:39 <addison> rrsagent, make minutes
14:55:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/09/16-i18n-minutes.html addison
14:55:41 <xfq> rrsagent, make minutes
14:55:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/09/16-i18n-minutes.html xfq
14:55:48 <addison> zakim, who is here?
14:55:48 <Zakim> Present: Addison, Felix, Fuqiao, Atsushi, Fatima, David
14:55:50 <Zakim> On IRC I see David, fsasaki, FatimaBana, xfq, Zakim, RRSAgent, addison, atsushi, sangwhan, koji, astearns, hsivonen, cwilso, hadleybeeman, Bert, florian, bigbluehat, Mek,
14:55:50 <Zakim> ... agendabot, trackbot
14:56:14 <addison> zakim, bye
14:56:14 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been Addison, Felix, Fuqiao, Atsushi, Fatima, David
14:56:14 <Zakim> Zakim has left #i18n
15:17:06 <atsushi> https://www.w3.org/groups/wg/timed-text/participants