16:48:33 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria
16:48:33 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/09/16-aria-irc
16:48:35 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
16:48:37 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), jamesn
16:48:37 <jamesn> meeting: ARIA WG
16:48:41 <jamesn> chair: JamesNurthen
16:49:06 <jamesn> agenda+ [New Issue Triage](https://bit.ly/3AepDmN)
16:49:06 <jamesn> agenda+ [New PR Triage](https://bit.ly/2Xl15dH)
16:49:06 <jamesn> agenda+ [Deep Dive planning](https://bit.ly/aria-meaty-topic-candidates)
16:49:06 <jamesn> agenda+ [TPAC 2021](https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1482)
16:49:06 <jamesn> agenda+ [Updating ARIA 1.2 due to IDL implementations (exit and re-enter CR?)](https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1598)
16:49:07 <jamesn> agenda+ [When is hidden content taken into calculation of name and description?](https://github.com/w3c/accname/issues/57)
16:49:14 <jamesn> present+
16:53:07 <jamesn> regrets+ PeterKrautzberger JamesCraig WilliamTennis
17:01:36 <MarkMcCarthy> MarkMcCarthy has joined #aria
17:01:51 <MarkMcCarthy> present+
17:02:04 <sarah_higley> sarah_higley has joined #aria
17:02:08 <sarah_higley> present_
17:02:12 <sarah_higley> present+
17:02:16 <sarah_higley> I can type :D
17:05:08 <Jory> Jory has joined #aria
17:05:51 <Jory> scribe: jory
17:06:09 <Jory> scribe: Jory
17:06:39 <Jory> zakim next item
17:06:43 <cyns> cyns has joined #aria
17:06:44 <MarkMcCarthy> zakim, next item
17:06:44 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- [New Issue Triage](https://bit.ly/3AepDmN) -- taken up [from jamesn]
17:07:01 <harris> harris has joined #aria
17:07:06 <harris> present+
17:07:07 <Jory> James: this is a great first issue
17:07:58 <Jory> Jory will do this
17:08:14 <jamesn> zakim, drop item 2
17:08:14 <Zakim> agendum 2, [New PR Triage](https://bit.ly/2Xl15dH), dropped
17:08:23 <Jory> zakim, next item
17:08:23 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- [Deep Dive planning](https://bit.ly/aria-meaty-topic-candidates) -- taken up [from jamesn]
17:08:52 <jamesn> https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/e8bf3a32-c3c8-4a97-aafa-7e8063233e2a
17:09:15 <Jory> jamesn: next deep dive is the link above, we don't have anything else yet
17:09:48 <Jory> please let jamesn know if anyone has a topic
17:09:53 <Jory> zakim, next item
17:09:53 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- [TPAC 2021](https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1482) -- taken up [from jamesn]
17:10:46 <Jory> jamesn: we don't yet have any requests from ourWG for cross-group meetings. Let us know soon if you have one, we are running out of time
17:11:33 <Jory> jamesn Oct-25-29 is the timing for joint meetings
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17:12:15 <jamesn> https://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC/2021/SessionIdeas
17:12:45 <Jory> jamesn there are currenty 13 proposed breakout sessions
17:16:06 <Jory>  JaEun sessions can be open to TPAC only or public
17:16:20 <Jory> jamesn perhaps we could have a plenary on latest for ARIA APG and AT
17:17:24 <Jory> see https://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC/2021/SessionIdeas for info
17:17:38 <Jory> cyns would like to do an AOM session
17:18:08 <Jemma> [optional] Timeslot: one slot at 7am UTC, 2pm UTC, or 3pm UTC any day except Wednesday
17:18:38 <Jemma> @cyns AOM session would be great!
17:20:15 <Jory> 7AM PST (GMT -8) is the timeslot if you only want to present once
17:20:58 <Jory> jamesn its best to submit proposals by Oct 8
17:21:22 <Jory> Any w3C member can submit a proposal.
17:22:44 <Jemma> agenda?
17:23:53 <Jory> jamesn The working group sessions for TPAC week would be a good time for deep dives where we want a lot of participation, e.g. Data Viz
17:25:26 <Jory> cyns it sould be great to get the SVG WG folks into the data viz talk
17:28:03 <Jory> jamesn will propose a data viz session with SVG, cyns will talk AOM, Matt will organize APG
17:28:52 <Jemma> present+
17:29:03 <Jemma> rrsagent, make minutes
17:29:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/09/16-aria-minutes.html Jemma
17:29:48 <Jory> zakim, next item
17:29:48 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- [Updating ARIA 1.2 due to IDL implementations (exit and re-enter CR?)](https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1598) -- taken up [from jamesn]
17:30:04 <jamesn> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1611
17:30:20 <Jory> jamesn there is a pr (#1611) for this with a few outstanding comments
17:30:41 <Matt_King> Matt_King has joined #aria
17:30:52 <Matt_King> present+
17:31:37 <Jory> jamesn will update fix the HTML URIs
17:32:40 <Jory> scott O re: "get" vs "getting" this idea is new to our spec, jsut wanted to see if we should define this
17:33:15 <Jory> jamesn prefers not to define these in ARIA, but would be for referencing an external definition (Web IDL? HTML?)
17:34:02 <Jory> scott O doesn't want this to be blocking
17:35:30 <Jory> jamesn will get this merged and into CR
17:35:34 <Jory> zakim, next item
17:35:34 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- [When is hidden content taken into calculation of name and description?](https://github.com/w3c/accname/issues/57) -- taken up [from jamesn]
17:38:17 <jamesn> https://github.com/w3c/accname/pull/137
17:39:07 <Jory> jamesn (PR: https://github.com/w3c/accname/pull/137) there were comments around how innerText works when a  hidden label is referenced
17:40:59 <Jory> sarah_higley why don't hidden elements use the same computation as non-hidden elements?
17:41:36 <Jory> jamesn the issue is the browser not understanding if children of hidden nodes are explicitly hidden or not
17:42:51 <Jory> sarah_higley it sounds like we have both a conceptually inconsistent thing AND a browser issue
17:42:57 <cyns> Found WebIDL definitions of getter and setter, linked in issue https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1611#discussion_r710340270
17:43:13 <Jory> cyns this approach is the one that is possible for Apple
17:45:38 <Jory> sarah_higley it would be preferable to not need to understand browser internals to understand name resolution
17:45:42 <Jemma> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1055
17:46:05 <Jory> jamesn reliying on these internals may be the only path to consistency
17:47:17 <Jemma> +1 to james' suggestion
17:48:45 <Jory> jamesn would like to hear from Aaron on this
17:49:30 <Jory> jamesn I was suggesting that we say "if the current node is RENDERED"
17:49:31 <Jemma> to resolve this PR, using html definition rendered
17:49:56 <Jory> cyns let's get JamesC and AaronL
17:51:01 <Jemma> +1 for distinguishing hiden info in note section.
17:51:08 <Jemma> s/hiden/hidden/
17:51:28 <Jory> cyns we can and should reference the HTML definition concerning hidden vs. rendered
17:51:30 <Jemma> visibilty hidden rendered.
17:53:31 <Jory> Matt_King ARIA has generally considered things hidden in relation to CSS display none, are we changing that?
17:53:55 <Jory> cyns because the Apple implementation hinges on RENDERED we need to use that
17:57:03 <Jory> Matt_King wants to be sure we don't make authors chase the definition of rendered to understand this
17:59:01 <Jory> jamesn cyns can you ping jamesc and aaronl about this?
17:59:04 <Jory> cyns yes
17:59:22 <Jory> this = https://github.com/w3c/accname/pull/137
17:59:43 <Jory> jamesn would like people to comment on his review comment
18:00:22 <jamesn> rrsagent, make minutes
18:00:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/09/16-aria-minutes.html jamesn
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