16:00:46 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #webdriver
16:00:46 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/09/08-webdriver-irc
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16:01:59 <brwalder> present+
16:02:04 <Honza> present+
16:02:05 <jgraham> Meeting: WebDriver BiDi
16:02:10 <jgraham> Cahir: AutomatedTester
16:02:14 <jgraham> Chair: AutomatedTester
16:02:26 <jgraham> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/wiki/WebDriver/2021-09-BiDi#Agenda
16:02:34 <whimboo> present+
16:02:39 <jgraham> ScibeNick: AutomatedTester
16:02:41 <jgraham> present+
16:02:47 <jgraham> RRSAgent: make logs public
16:02:54 <jgraham> RRSAgent: make minutes v2
16:02:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/09/08-webdriver-minutes.html jgraham
16:03:27 <jdescottes_> present+
16:03:33 <AutomatedTester> present+
16:05:07 <AutomatedTester> https://www.w3.org/wiki/WebDriver/2021-09-BiDi#Agenda
16:05:25 <jgraham> RRSAgent: make minutes v2
16:05:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/09/08-webdriver-minutes.html jgraham
16:05:28 <AutomatedTester> Topic: FPWD
16:05:43 <jgraham> ScribeNick: jgraham
16:06:24 <simonstewart> simonstewart has joined #webdriver
16:06:25 <jgraham> AutomatedTester: Request from W3C to see if we're happy to publish a first working draft. Doesn't affect work, but required for Process reasons, in particular for patent policy.
16:06:53 <simonstewart> present+
16:07:31 <foolip> present+
16:07:51 <jgraham> AutomatedTester: It's about taking a snapshot of where we are and moving forward. Please voice any concerns; there will be a followup email and and issue in the issue tracker. One week for feedback after email/issue. If no objections then we'll go ahead with the FPWD process.
16:08:02 <AutomatedTester> q?
16:08:12 <foolip> Sorry I'm late all, network issues and have joined by phone tether. My audio might be terrible today.
16:08:25 <jgraham> ScribeNick: AutomatedTester:
16:08:27 <jgraham> ScribeNick: AutomatedTester
16:08:30 <AutomatedTester> ACTION: Raise issue for FPWD and send email to list
16:08:49 <AutomatedTester> Topic: Review Queue
16:10:22 <AutomatedTester> jgraham: This is a note that there are a few reviews that have been open for awhile. Please can you have a look and help review. There are things that have been reviewed but then there are substantive changes and need to be re-reviewed like `Reload`
16:10:30 <foolip> q+
16:10:40 <AutomatedTester> ack foolip
16:11:48 <AutomatedTester> foolip: James is being polite, he should be complaining. Would there be appetite for a weekly meeting for editors to help increase the velocity of the PRs
16:12:48 <whimboo> q+
16:13:08 <AutomatedTester> jgraham: I am in agreement. I think having a review/editorial meeting that happens in the middle area between this mmeeting (every 4 weeks starting 2 weeks from now)
16:13:12 <AutomatedTester> ack whimboo
16:13:40 <foolip> brwalder has also reviewed a lot
16:13:47 <AutomatedTester> whimboo: Who do we have as editors actively working on reviews
16:14:10 <AutomatedTester> simonstewart: Selenium 4 is nearly shipped and then I will shift focus to the spec
16:14:55 <foolip> q+
16:15:18 <AutomatedTester> action: Organise a review meeting every 4 weeks starting from2 weeks from now to bridge the gap between the current webdriver meetings
16:15:26 <AutomatedTester> ack foolip
16:16:09 <sadym> present+
16:18:16 <AutomatedTester> topic: Shadow DOM
16:18:20 <AutomatedTester> github: https://github.com/w3c/webdriver/issues/1614
16:19:33 <AutomatedTester> jgraham: This is a WebDriver HTTP topic, I noticed in the spec that we are only supporting open shadow DOM. Do we want to support closed shadow DOM?
16:19:41 <AutomatedTester> q+
16:19:48 <simonstewart> q+
16:21:01 <jgraham> q+
16:21:54 <AutomatedTester> AutomatedTester: This was a MVP mostly because I don't think we had enough knowledge around closed Shadow dom and there are no obviosu ways to pierce closed shadow doms
16:21:57 <AutomatedTester> ack automatedtester
16:22:05 <AutomatedTester> ack simonstewart
16:22:32 <AutomatedTester> simonstewart: I know a lot of people want to pierce closed ones
16:22:38 <AutomatedTester> ack jgraham
16:23:41 <AutomatedTester> jgraham: I think that it is true that there are no good ways to handle the closed shadow roots and we need to update the spec accordingly
16:25:31 <AutomatedTester> github: end topic
16:25:58 <AutomatedTester> Topic: Script execution
16:26:18 <AutomatedTester> github: https://github.com/w3c/webdriver-bidi/issues/63
16:26:44 <AutomatedTester> jgraham: I have started looking at the spec text here to do the minimum
16:27:03 <AutomatedTester> ... I have 3 questions. 2 are in the last comment of the issue linked
16:27:37 <AutomatedTester> ... 1. Do we want to keep the distiction between evaluate and callFunctionOn?
16:27:38 <AutomatedTester> ... I think we should keep the distinctions
16:28:56 <AutomatedTester> ... 2. We want to be able to specify the target of where the script could run. Like the realm or the browser context. There is a question in the PR on what should this look like. It could be a real or a browser context and I have some suggestions there
16:29:14 <AutomatedTester> ... 3. How do we want errors to be handled?
16:30:02 <AutomatedTester> ... There is a difference between webdriver http and bidi. Webdriver http exxpects the UA to populate it with info
16:30:21 <AutomatedTester> ... in CDP it returns a success and then gives you a lot more detailed info
16:30:30 <AutomatedTester> q?
16:30:38 <simonstewart> q+
16:30:47 <AutomatedTester> ack simonstewart
16:31:27 <AutomatedTester> simonstewart: are you saying in CDP you cant tell if there was a success or failing?
16:31:40 <foolip> q+
16:32:10 <AutomatedTester> jgraham: I've only read the docs but it says that you get a success return but an exception field will be populated
16:32:31 <AutomatedTester> simonstewart: as long as there as a mechanism to differentiate then it's fine since we can do that on the local end
16:32:36 <AutomatedTester> ack foolip
16:33:58 <AutomatedTester>   foolip:  I want to make sure I understnad the decision. Do we want to return an error at a protocol level or do we just populate a field?
16:35:44 <simonstewart> q+
16:35:45 <AutomatedTester> jgraham: The question comes from CDP doing something very different to webdriver. If we want to follow webdriver we would want to have to a mechanism to create more richer error types
16:36:10 <AutomatedTester> ... but CDP is there and we can follow that and allow clients to easily move over to it
16:36:36 <foolip> q?
16:37:11 <AutomatedTester> ... and not everything that happens in the client should be returned as a protocol error
16:37:16 <AutomatedTester> ack simonstewart
16:37:48 <foolip> sadym, do you know off hand what Puppeteer does here? Does it turn script exceptions into a rejected promise?
16:37:55 <AutomatedTester> simonstewart: what ever we do we can always make http sit on top of bidi
16:39:05 <AutomatedTester> ... so we want send error types and CDP allows us to send union types
16:39:13 <AutomatedTester> ... I don't have a strong opinion here
16:39:29 <AutomatedTester> q?
16:39:43 <foolip> q+
16:39:57 <AutomatedTester> ack foolip
16:40:20 <AutomatedTester> foolip: If it helps I can move to webdriver http and just do what happens there.
16:40:34 <whimboo> foolip: https://github.com/puppeteer/puppeteer/blob/main/src/common/ExecutionContext.ts#L253-L275
16:41:06 <AutomatedTester> jgraham: I might look at what existing clients do now and then go from there
16:41:27 <foolip> thanks whimboo!
16:42:14 <AutomatedTester> github: end topic
16:42:44 <AutomatedTester> Topic: browsing context create command
16:42:51 <AutomatedTester> github: https://github.com/w3c/webdriver-bidi/pull/133
16:43:10 <AutomatedTester> foolip: THis is a PR that I sent out today
16:43:32 <AutomatedTester> ... it's basically boilerplate and some questions
16:43:39 <jgraham> q+
16:43:50 <AutomatedTester> ... we should merge jgraham's PRs first and then have a look at this PR
16:43:56 <AutomatedTester> ack jgraham
16:44:44 <foolip> q+
16:45:07 <AutomatedTester> jgraham: There is an open question around creating a context and then do we get events? I think the spec already handles this case already
16:45:08 <AutomatedTester> ack foolip
16:45:24 <AutomatedTester> foolip: I think that's right, we will get the events, it's just around the order of the events.
16:45:35 <AutomatedTester> q?
16:46:00 <AutomatedTester> topic: WebDriver BiDi status in Firefox
16:46:24 <AutomatedTester> whimboo: I just wanted to give a quick update on our implementation
16:46:57 <AutomatedTester> ... in the last month, we opened the websocket. users can request the ws url and then connect
16:47:10 <AutomatedTester> ... we have started adding commands
16:47:40 <AutomatedTester> ... we have added shared session details
16:48:01 <AutomatedTester> ... we now have a framework that allows bidi commands and the events
16:48:43 <AutomatedTester> ... we have session subscriptions and this will be in Firefox 94
16:49:10 <AutomatedTester> ... we have started adding wdspec tests. We have a chicken and egg problem around features vs tests
16:49:34 <AutomatedTester> ... we have stumbled into issues with the eventloop
16:49:36 <foolip> q+
16:49:47 <AutomatedTester> ... but this is currently where we are
16:50:03 <AutomatedTester> ack foolip
16:50:27 <AutomatedTester> foolip: Thats really good. Is the "eventloop issues" is that asynchio?
16:51:05 <jgraham> q+
16:51:23 <AutomatedTester> whimboo: yes, we have a fix that will be coming soon. It's ok since it's dropping the eventloop at the end of each module.
16:51:26 <foolip> whimboo, do you have a link to a PR or issue where you've run into this?
16:51:28 <AutomatedTester> q?
16:51:33 <AutomatedTester> ack jgraham
16:52:29 <AutomatedTester>   jgraham: to answer foolip's question. We should raise this on the wpt repo. We have some things but we should move this to a github disussion
16:53:08 <jgraham> RRSAgent: make minutes v2
16:53:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/09/08-webdriver-minutes.html jgraham
16:53:40 <foolip> Thank you, good evening :)
16:54:10 <sadym> thanks!
16:54:22 <jgraham> RRSAgent: make minutes v2
16:54:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/09/08-webdriver-minutes.html jgraham
16:54:29 <jgraham> RRSAgent: bye
16:54:29 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in https://www.w3.org/2021/09/08-webdriver-actions.rdf :
16:54:29 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Raise issue for FPWD and send email to list [1]
16:54:29 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2021/09/08-webdriver-irc#T16-08-30
16:54:29 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Organise a review meeting every 4 weeks starting from2 weeks from now to bridge the gap between the current webdriver meetings [2]
16:54:29 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2021/09/08-webdriver-irc#T16-15-18
16:54:38 <jgraham> Zakim, bye
16:54:38 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been brwalder, Honza, whimboo, jgraham, jdescottes_, AutomatedTester, simonstewart, foolip, sadym
16:54:38 <Zakim> Zakim has left #webdriver