IRC log of wot-uc on 2021-09-07

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:04:39 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #wot-uc
12:04:39 [RRSAgent]
logging to
12:04:50 [kaz]
meeting: WoT Use Cases
12:04:53 [kaz]
chair: Lagally
12:05:13 [kaz]
present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_Lagally, Michael_McCool, Tetsushi_Matsuda
12:05:31 [matsuda]
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12:06:34 [kaz]
12:07:42 [kaz]
scribenick: kaz
12:07:48 [kaz]
present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima
12:07:58 [kaz]
topic: Minutes
12:08:03 [kaz]
-> Aug-3
12:08:12 [kaz]
ml: (goes through the minutes)
12:10:41 [kaz]
... will follow up Conexxus
12:11:50 [kaz]
mm: btw, there was some information on industry cases of WoT during the Marketing call
12:13:53 [kaz]
ml: minutes approved
12:14:05 [kaz]
-> Aug-31
12:14:11 [kaz]
mm: (gives summary)
12:14:51 [kaz]
ml: this use case itself is quite simple on smart homes
12:15:21 [kaz]
12:15:40 [sebastian]
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12:16:38 [kaz]
kaz: right
12:16:52 [kaz]
... we should handle geofencing, etc., separately from this use case
12:17:08 [kaz]
... and can generate another separate use case about that as a horizontal use case
12:17:23 [kaz]
ml: ok
12:17:37 [kaz]
... btw, what's the status on the liaison with OGC?
12:17:46 [kaz]
mm: talking with Christine
12:18:04 [kaz]
... it seems there is an IEEE WG on geospatial data as well
12:18:16 [kaz]
ack k
12:18:18 [kaz]
12:18:40 [kaz]
kaz: we should have a joint session with them during TPAC
12:18:53 [kaz]
mm: yeah
12:19:06 [kaz]
... another question is how to manage the geolocation data
12:19:19 [kaz]
... along with time-series data
12:20:06 [kaz]
kaz: we can start with some basic discussion based on use cases
12:20:09 [kaz]
mm: yeah
12:20:57 [kaz]
ml: for concrete extensions, we should be careful about our Charter
12:21:05 [kaz]
... current Charter or the next one
12:21:29 [kaz]
... e.g., clustering things
12:21:42 [kaz]
mm: thinking about orchestration
12:22:17 [kaz]
... are we just concern about grouping the status?
12:22:25 [kaz]
... or what do we want to achieve?
12:22:33 [kaz]
12:22:35 [kaz]
ack k
12:22:37 [kaz]
12:23:19 [kaz]
ml: seems various topics there
12:23:59 [kaz]
... including permission management
12:24:10 [kaz]
mm: we have things like OAuth now
12:24:24 [kaz]
... but no standard to manage orchestration
12:24:54 [kaz]
... e.g., a visitor visiting my home would like to get connected with the network at my home
12:25:01 [kaz]
12:25:16 [kaz]
present+ Sebastian_Kaebisch
12:26:15 [kaz]
kaz: let's approve the minutes first :)
12:26:29 [kaz]
mm: yes, the minutes are fine :)
12:27:04 [kaz]
... regarding the next steps, we have several advanced use cases in the pipe
12:27:26 [kaz]
ml: so we added "gaps" to the use case template to clarify the gaps
12:28:25 [kaz]
... what was the conclusion about ECHONET use case description itself?
12:28:39 [sebastian]
sorry I have to go
12:28:40 [kaz]
kaz: was quickly skimming it again today with Michael Lagally ;)
12:29:30 [McCool]
12:29:34 [kaz]
ml: ok. the minutes themselves are approved
12:29:36 [kaz]
ack k
12:29:51 [kaz]
topic: ECHONET use cases
12:29:54 [kaz]
12:30:28 [kaz]
-> ECHONET use case
12:30:58 [kaz]
(discussion on the "Gaps" section specifically)
12:31:17 [kaz]
12:31:18 [kaz]
controlling multiple devices in an orchestrated manner is dependent on the implementation of a client application in the current WoT specification
12:31:18 [kaz]
12:32:08 [kaz]
mm: so there is a gap for multi-vendor orchestration
12:32:22 [kaz]
ml: what level of orchestration is expected?
12:32:46 [kaz]
... how the ECHONET spec handles orchestration?
12:33:22 [kaz]
mt: ECHONET Lite Web API spec itself doesn't have orchestration capability
12:33:42 [kaz]
12:33:46 [kaz]
ack mc
12:34:44 [McCool]
12:36:40 [kaz]
kaz: ECHONET doesn't have multi-vendor/multi-standard orchestration capability, and so they would like to use WoT for that purpose
12:37:46 [kaz]
mt: right, we just wanted to show you that there is a use case which can't be implemented with existing standards
12:37:58 [kaz]
12:39:00 [kaz]
ml: what kind of "orchestration" is expected here?
12:39:42 [kaz]
mt: multiple devices which use multiple data models
12:39:58 [kaz]
12:40:01 [kaz]
ack k
12:40:07 [kaz]
ack m
12:40:24 [kaz]
mm: "orchestration" here is not just operation
12:40:32 [kaz]
... but also include data
12:40:43 [kaz]
... so need to maintain the data somewhere
12:40:58 [kaz]
12:42:05 [kaz]
... btw, ECHONET Lite Web API spec has the device spec and the device description
12:42:48 [kaz]
... more than one access point may be involved
12:43:13 [McCool]
12:44:34 [kaz]
kaz: I'm OK with accepting this use case description itself, but we should clarify our expectation for "orchestration"
12:45:14 [kaz]
... based on some concrete scenario, e.g., the conductor work with the pianist, violinist, drummer, etc. :)
12:45:42 [kaz]
mm: right. and "orchestration" should include "configuration management"
12:46:06 [kaz]
mt: for the moment, we can avoid using the term of "orchestration" within our use case
12:46:39 [kaz]
12:46:41 [kaz]
ack k
12:46:44 [kaz]
ack m
12:46:47 [kaz]
12:47:37 [kaz]
ack k
12:47:53 [kaz]
kaz: ECHONET is planning to join the Plugfest during TPAC
12:48:09 [McCool]
12:49:07 [kaz]
... so we can think about actual "orchestration" during the Plugfest and its planning
12:49:26 [kaz]
... note that their spec document is written in Japanese
12:49:54 [kaz]
... but the most important definition is done by tables which include English as well as Japanese
12:50:13 [kaz]
... so we can refer to part of their spec document
12:50:15 [kaz]
mm: right
12:50:17 [kaz]
12:50:21 [kaz]
ack m
12:50:29 [kaz]
ml: ok
12:50:41 [McCool]
12:51:06 [kaz]
... Matsuda-san, what kind of features for "orchestration" or "grouping" do you want in addition to your own grouping capability?
12:51:33 [kaz]
mt: @@@ missed
12:51:56 [kaz]
mm: things like where to store data, how to handle different data from various vendors, etc.
12:52:17 [kaz]
ack m
12:52:19 [kaz]
12:52:31 [kaz]
mm: we could put them on the document
12:53:50 [kaz]
ml: can we have some more detailed description about the gaps?
12:54:06 [McCool]
12:55:03 [kaz]
... grouping and sequence of actions?
12:57:00 [kaz]
mm: note that it would take a few more weeks for them to add requirements description
12:57:13 [kaz]
... since they need to discuss the changes internally
12:57:19 [kaz]
ml: ok
12:57:31 [kaz]
ack m
12:57:48 [kaz]
mm: wondering about the schedule
12:57:55 [kaz]
ml: let's go for weekly meeting
12:58:13 [kaz]
mm: will send an updated invite
12:59:01 [kaz]
kaz: can we move ahead with the ECHONET use case itself?
12:59:28 [kaz]
... can we ask Matsuda-san to generate the HTML description for the use case document?
13:00:04 [mlagally]
Proposal: Include ECHONET use case into use cases document
13:00:36 [mlagally]
Resolution: Include ECHONET use case into use cases document
13:01:15 [kaz]
13:01:17 [kaz]
ack k
13:01:47 [kaz]
ml: wondering about outreach
13:01:57 [kaz]
mm: could have joint meetings during TPAC
13:02:01 [kaz]
13:03:32 [kaz]
kaz: fyi, as I mentioned during the Marketing call today, big companies like Takenaka from Japan have started to use WoT as the basis for their IoT systems :)
13:03:36 [kaz]
ml: great!
13:03:42 [kaz]
13:03:47 [kaz]
rrsagent, make log public
13:03:51 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
13:03:51 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate kaz
13:04:33 [kaz]
i/wondering/topic: AOB/
13:04:36 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
13:04:36 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate kaz
15:04:47 [Zakim]
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