15:37:38 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #silver-conf
15:37:38 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/09/02-silver-conf-irc
15:37:52 <sajkaj> Meeting: Silver Conformance Options Subgroup
15:37:57 <sajkaj> Date 02 Sep 2021
15:38:10 <sajkaj> rrsagent, make log public
15:38:17 <sajkaj> agenda?
15:39:19 <sajkaj> Agenda+ Agenda Review & Administrative Items
15:39:19 <sajkaj> agenda+ Media Considerations https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/silver/wiki/Media_Considerations
15:39:22 <sajkaj> agenda+ Other Business
15:39:24 <sajkaj> agenda+ Be Done
15:41:00 <sajkaj>  Regrets: Azlan_Cuttilan, Bruce_Bailey
15:41:11 <sajkaj> rrsagent, make minutes
15:41:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/09/02-silver-conf-minutes.html sajkaj
15:42:04 <sajkaj> Chair: sajkaj
15:44:50 <sajkaj> present+
15:54:10 <jeanne> jeanne has joined #silver-conf
15:58:48 <ToddLibby> ToddLibby has joined #silver-conf
15:58:59 <ToddLibby> present+
16:02:07 <jeanne> present+
16:03:15 <PeterKorn> PeterKorn has joined #silver-conf
16:03:20 <PeterKorn> present+
16:03:53 <sajkaj> scribe: sajkaj
16:04:01 <sajkaj> zakim, next item
16:04:01 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Agenda Review & Administrative Items -- taken up [from sajkaj]
16:04:05 <jeanne> Comments on User Generated Github link -> https://github.com/w3c/silver/pull/546/files
16:04:22 <jeanne> agenda?
16:05:19 <jeanne> scribe: jeanne
16:05:29 <jeanne> zakim, take up next
16:05:29 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Media Considerations https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/silver/wiki/Media_Considerations -- taken up [from sajkaj]
16:05:36 <sajkaj> JeanNotes an objection to UgC at github above
16:05:50 <jeanne> Topic: User Generated Content
16:06:01 <jeanne> Comments on User Generated Github link -> https://github.com/w3c/silver/pull/546/files
16:06:18 <sajkaj> jeanne: Most comments are editorial
16:06:38 <sajkaj> jeanne: Rephrasing to make clearer, minor typos
16:07:45 <sajkaj> jeanne: Also proposed edit for "Accessibility Statement or help documentation"
16:08:49 <jeanne> [jeanne reads] then all of the following must be indicated - either alongside the User Generated Content, or in a separate Accessibility Statement or similar help/documentation, with a consistently located link from the page or view where the User Generated Content is present"
16:09:14 <sajkaj> PeterKorn: So it's "can you live with it for this draft"
16:09:17 <jeanne> PK: I like it, but not at the moment
16:09:28 <sajkaj> PeterKorn: Notes we're accepting a good deal of the proposed edits
16:10:22 <sajkaj> zakim, next item
16:10:22 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Other Business -- taken up [from sajkaj]
16:10:24 <jeanne> Jeanne: I agree.  Most of his changes are editorial and I think we can accept them without it going back to AGWG for further conversation.  I want to postpone the "or simililar help/documentation" beccause it is substantial.  Although I also like and agree with it.
16:11:33 <jeanne> RESOLUTION: We agree with the proposed changes to the UGC objection, except that we want to address the substantial change in the next draft.
16:12:10 <jeanne> zakim, take up item 2
16:12:10 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Media Considerations https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/silver/wiki/Media_Considerations -- taken up [from sajkaj]
16:12:44 <jeanne> Janina:  It is shorter and I expect there are some discussion points that I have questions about.
16:12:51 <KimD> KimD has joined #silver-conf
16:12:59 <KimD> present+
16:13:09 <jeanne> [Peter reads] Media Considerations https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/silver/wiki/Media_Considerations
16:16:25 <jeanne> q+ to suggest removing some of the examples that do not illustrate the point we are trying to make
16:18:19 <sajkaj> [Peter reads current Media Considerations draft]
16:19:11 <jeanne> PK: This feels verbose and "in the weeds"  to me.
16:19:20 <jeanne> Janina: I agree that things can be tightened up
16:19:44 <jeanne> ... there are a range of concepts that I want to preserve and lay out.
16:19:52 <jeanne> ... I like the table of contents, for example
16:20:06 <jeanne> ... it is a lot closer than we were at last week.
16:20:11 <jeanne> ack jeanne
16:20:11 <Zakim> jeanne, you wanted to suggest removing some of the examples that do not illustrate the point we are trying to make
16:21:16 <sajkaj> q?
16:21:27 <PeterKorn> q+
16:23:35 <jeanne> PK: We need to have examples for a range of content. We could just have digitized content including...
16:23:45 <jeanne> ... we have these different types of media
16:23:57 <jeanne> ... we see them in 3 different groupings
16:24:04 <jeanne> ... legacy media
16:24:19 <jeanne> ... give the range of legacy
16:24:27 <jeanne> ... contemporanious
16:24:33 <sajkaj> PeterKorn: give range of legacy, contemporaneous, and grouping that cuts across both
16:24:40 <jeanne> ... content for which the website hosting has limited rights
16:24:57 <jeanne> ... that's all we need in the first section
16:26:16 <jeanne> KD: I think we need examples, but they need to be "on-point" and good
16:26:42 <jeanne> PK: I am adding "Types of Content"
16:27:07 <jeanne> ... and adding an example of each
16:27:26 <jeanne> ack Pet
16:30:25 <jeanne> Jeanne: I think we should not use the example of Dead Sea Scrolls, because that is an example of where the Scrolls were made accessible.
16:30:51 <jeanne> PK: I think that it is useful for illustrating the large number of inaccessible media
16:31:36 <sajkaj> PeterKorn: couldn't be made accessible at the time of creation; and may be too voluminous to do so today
16:31:38 <jeanne> ... what is important is that the legacy media was created before there was the ability to make it accessible
16:31:42 <sajkaj> KimD:  agrees
16:32:53 <jeanne> Jeanne: I think it needs to be time of digitization rather than the creation
16:33:27 <jeanne> PK: It is inexpensive to put a photo of text handwriting, but expensive to OCR
16:38:12 <jeanne> Jeanne: I think the the time of digitization is critical, because we don't want to say that old items are exempt just because they are old.  However, if they are digitized before the captions or description were prevalent, then they should be exempt.
16:38:44 <jeanne> PK: I don't think I agree. I think that the expense of making it accessible is a factor we have to consider.
16:39:12 <jeanne> Jnaina: I think we also have to consider the lyrics of vocals of songs need to  be considered
16:39:32 <jeanne> s/Jnaina:/Janina:
16:42:40 <jeanne> PK: Revised the table of contents
16:42:56 <jeanne> [PK reads the Other Considerations]
16:43:59 <jeanne> q+ to suggest we move Other Considerations as another category of Type of Media
16:46:08 <jeanne> PK: I think there is a difference between legacy and lack of rights.
16:46:30 <jeanne> ... should we vary the scoring by the amount of accessibility done
16:46:56 <jeanne> Janina: I think it is important to give the metadata and point to the owner of the media
16:47:07 <jeanne> ... that cuts across all the buckets
16:47:24 <jeanne> KP: There are agreements like partnerships where that wouldn't work.
16:48:03 <jeanne> ... for exaample two companies may want to present it under its own brand and not say which comes from company A vs company B
16:48:39 <jeanne> PK: Then people can say "I will approach "Brand" and ask them to make it accessible"
16:48:58 <jeanne> Janina: We will consider that to be useful.
16:49:12 <jeanne> KP: I think there will be legal pushback to that ideaa
16:49:44 <jeanne> PK: We want to say "Who is the responsible party?" and shift responsibility to that party.
16:51:22 <jeanne> PK: We have a lot of training videos from a number of third party companies, and some that we license
16:51:38 <jeanne> ... media for corporate consumption is an interesting corner case.
16:52:33 <jeanne> KP: what about media displayed on a CMS where they would not want the CMS identified as a separate entity
16:53:07 <jeanne> PK: Then you would assume responsibility for the accessibility
16:53:29 <jeanne> q+ to university videos
16:53:37 <sajkaj> q?
16:53:53 <jeanne> ack jea
16:53:53 <Zakim> jeanne, you wanted to suggest we move Other Considerations as another category of Type of Media and to university videos
16:54:17 <sajkaj> jeanne: move other consider up as another type
16:54:44 <sajkaj> jeanne: second needs to be considered more carefully, e.g. university library of videos
16:54:58 <sajkaj> jeanne: in the u.s. have to be accessible, even legacy
16:55:59 <sajkaj> PeterKorn: legacy whether or owned or not
16:56:07 <sajkaj> jeanne: issue is what it's used for
16:56:24 <sajkaj> jeanne: pwd needs to complete a course and get a grade; complete a degree
16:57:09 <sajkaj> jeanne: different from renting a video and knowing a11y up front
16:57:23 <sajkaj> kim: ed is fundamental right; but entertainment isn't
16:57:23 <jeanne> KD: Education is a fundamental right, where entertainment is not.
16:58:20 <jeanne> PK: Is the right path to say that WCAG3 sets things out and the law exceeds them, or WCAG3 sets things out and the law is less than them
16:59:06 <jeanne> ... The Ontarians with Disabilities specifically excludes commercial sites from captions and descriptions while government sites are not exempted
16:59:20 <jeanne> Janina: we are likely to see both around the planet.
16:59:36 <jeanne> ... I think accessibility is a reasonable set of expectations and conformance
17:00:05 <jeanne> KD: We set out what Janina suggests, and every jurisdiction around the globe deals with that
17:01:46 <jeanne> rrsagent, make minutes
17:01:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/09/02-silver-conf-minutes.html jeanne
17:02:09 <ToddLibby> ToddLibby has left #silver-conf
17:07:13 <sajkaj> zakim, bye
17:07:13 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been sajkaj, ToddLibby, jeanne, PeterKorn, KimD
17:07:13 <Zakim> Zakim has left #silver-conf
17:07:22 <sajkaj> rrsagent, make minutes
17:07:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/09/02-silver-conf-minutes.html sajkaj
17:07:56 <sajkaj> rrsagent, bye
17:07:56 <RRSAgent> I see no action items